*Gaming Staff Presents* Tag Team Tournament Championship

[Chieftain Khuzaymah]

Vulnerable position yes, but also the best unit pool and like 30% more income than any other faction... Do not take them lightly, team 2.

Don't forget we also have to defend at least 30% more borders than you do

You failed to mention that besides your strong cavalry you also have the most and best movement bonus generals to start with. What more can you wish...? Do not take them lightly, team 2.

[Mithridate]

Aldmerii has a lot of forces primed at me border so I do not think I am taken lightly. I am a little annoyed that the Commonwealth has a far higher military rating than I, despite me paying 5k more in upkeep, kinda intriguing that^^ We shall see what comes of this.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

After recent diplomatic incidents with our neighbours:
To hell with you hairy northerners, to hell with you cuddly and fluffy southerners and to hell with the Empire.

Save sent to the Mac

[Dux]

Macrath just spotted 3 units that have 2 hp. This will make them overpowered.

Do we continue or restart? We could just forbid it to use them.

[Jadli]

Continue

[Macrath]

Going to be a major effect on any AR that involves a large # of those units, Legion archers are going to be one hell of an elite force

[joerock22]

Which three units are they? I would like to continue, even before hearing that answer.

[Macrath]

two Breton Cavalry, Knights of Dragon and Breton Bodyguard if I am not mistaken. and 1 Empire Archer unit.

[Mithridate]

Ban them, naturally with the exception of my allys BG whom cannot be avoided.
Consider me having the weakest BG as something of an offset for that fact?

[Chieftain Khuzaymah]

Macrath you have a talent for detecting imbalances when the HS has started ^^ So what do we do now guys? Still rep that man? I just repped him yesterday or the day before for this great mod

Anyways, I'd say just continue. Empire and Breton will disband said units and perhaps be added some to compensate for their loss? Breton's BG is unavoidable, but I'd insist Breton is not allowed to have more than 1 general in a stack. So, just a commander. Sounds fair?

Ban them, naturally with the exception of my allys BG whom cannot be avoided.
Consider me having the weakest BG as something of an offset for that fact?

Ow, boo hoo

[Macrath]

Oh Apologies that everything wasn't set up perfect for you on first launch. It is a travesty I know. Still rep the man? No sir, instead place ur rep directly up ur back door then see how many steps you can take before it falls out
Honestly tho, if this is the only glaring balance issue we discover then I will be happy.
Now cut me some slack this is my first big modding project and you are going to make me cry

[joerock22]

The Breton bodyguard is bugged? Well, that's a little different. You can't force Empire to disband it's 2-HP units when Breton automatically gets to keep many 2-HP units. Bodyguards are already extremely powerful in this game.

If this is the case, we should just restart. Turn 1 isn't even finished yet. I would just ask that people be required to make basically the same moves.

While we're at it, the starting alliances can be fixed as well.

[Chieftain Khuzaymah]

Oh Apologies that everything wasn't set up perfect for you on first launch. It is a travesty I know. Still rep the man? No sir, instead place ur rep directly up ur back door then see how many steps you can take before it falls out
Honestly tho, if this is the only glaring balance issue we discover then I will be happy.
Now cut me some slack this is my first big modding project and you are going to make me cry

I think the mod looks really good. I have to be strict on about everything here because you have the wrong support signature..

[Macrath]

That is understandable. But hey at least there are no elephants

[Dr Mac]

Hey sorry fellas. Been in last minute talks with mith, almost finished my turn. But are we going to start again?

[Korpskog]

I don't see why a restart would be in place..

[joerock22]

I don't see why a restart would be in place..

Then don't ask Empire to disband it's 2-HP units when Breton gets to keep its 2-HP bodyguards. That's not fair.

[Mithridate]

No need to disband imo, just don't recruit them? As to the "Ow, bo hoo" yea, the majority of my BG being inf 18 attack 12 def is something of a concern to me, most BG of the other factions are quite literally twice their strength This is a rather major problem though, as the Britons will gain a good number of adoptions and a few generals from battles so it is safe to say that he will get a stack of these guys or more - Empire won't even be able to get more than half a dozen if he goes all in for them.

My vote remains unchanged however, no replay and ban the archers.

If we do replay I'd like some minor changes to the mod. ( add a Khajiit ship, move my ship, add a Breton ship, prevent empire from this turn 1 surgical strike? ).
Otherwise, forced to do the same moves as before obviously.

[joerock22]

Though, you are aware that your position being exposed is to counter being the strongest faction by a fair bit both militarily and economically and thus taking the blunt of the fighting right? Perfect balance is unobtainable.

These are your words, Mith. So now you want to make all sorts of changes that favor you, without doing anything to address Empire's exposed position, which YOU SAID was fine because Empire is the "strongest faction." Come on, dude.

All I want is to correct an advantage to Breton that is obviously unintended (the creator of the mod has said so!) and unfair. Bodyguards are very powerful in this mod. So let's give Breton bodyguards that are twice as good as everyone else's in AR. Yeah, that's fair.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but IMO his position is pretty ridiculous.

[Macrath]

In my opinion playing for weeks/months with a balance issue that is easily corrected is much worse then a turn 1 restart.
I did not intend for anyone to be able to launch a guaranteed first turn win against another player, much like the 2HitPoints, that was an error that slipped thru the cracks. If we are restarting and Dux would like that fixed as well I would be happy to do it, it will be in the next patch anyway. No reason I can see to move/add any boats.

[Mithridate]

These are your words, Mith. So now you want to make all sorts of changes that favor you, without doing anything to address Empire's exposed position, which YOU SAID was fine because Empire is the "strongest faction." Come on, dude.

You make it sound as if my position has changed, it has not

You will still be the strongest faction to offset a worse position, a position that will remain mostly unchanged but you will have less starting advantages to capitalize on - most whom you did not capitalize on anyway as far as I can tell. I think both these solutions in case of restart fair and objective and you are free to disagree. Naturally, perfection is still an illusion at best.

All I want is to correct an advantage to Breton that is obviously unintended (the creator of the mod has said so!) and unfair. Bodyguards are very powerful in this mod. So let's give Breton bodyguards that are twice as good as everyone else's in AR. Yeah, that's fair.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but IMO his position is pretty ridiculous.

The same arguments can be levvied against you for basically everything you've said.

All I want is to correct an advantage to Empire that is so obviously unintended ( the creator of the mod has yet to confirm it said so! ) and unfair.
The navies and naval positions are too advantageous for the Empire, letting them pre-emptively strike both fronts with major advantage. Yeah, that's fair.

I do not mean to be rude, I am urging you not to take it to be ridiculous
These things are hard to solve, especially so to make everyone happy.

Things were missed, we agreed to play on the current state of things and I've given my opinion and vote. P.s I will play regardless of decision, to be clear