Desired map changes

**Peanut2bigforyou** · February 09, 2016, 05:49 PM

I'm currently playing as my new favorite faction: Vladimir-Suzdal (since the update, I've started a campaign with Yemen, Vladimir, and Kara-Khitan), as the history of that faction is familiar to me more so than others. The conquest of Volga-Bulgar was too easy in my opinion, and the conquest of the Kypchaks has been arduous; I've destroyed thousands of their men, achieved victory after victory, killed their king and prince, yet have only been able to conquer 2 of their cities. They recruit at crazy speeds! I think Kypchaks are well done and balanced with the current version, although playing as them seems near impossible, as spreading Tengriism is really difficult.

Some things I'd really like to see to further improve the northwest part of the map is to make Volga-Bulgar stronger, add Kievan Rus as a faction, and my dream is to see Hungary be a faction in BC some day. A shift to the west just enough to have Budapest (or at least Pest) on the map would be a dream come true. Having another Latin Catholic faction, I think, would be a great addition to the campaigns of Rome, Kypchaks, Vladimir, and Kiev, if it were to be added. Imagine the West-Northwest part of the map having Latin and Orthodox Christian factions, fighting with Islam and Paganism. The religious turmoil would be wonderful for players. (Although I do acknowledge moving west would be a bit against the point of BC)

Currently, only 26 factions are being used of the 31, so I think sparing 2 for Hungary and Kiev wouldn't be a waste. I also think those 2 factions are vitally important for a more accurate gameplay of Rome, Vladimir, and Kypchaks. I'd be more than willing to get the ball rolling by myself by making Kiev a clone of Vladimir, and Hungary a clone of KoJ with different colors, and extending the map to the west to compensate. Unfortunately, my skills end at 3D art, units, and the more complicated modding aspects, like voice, AI, and balance. The width of the map_heights is also 841, which is smaller than it could possibly be, if I remember correctly, so the map could be exactly the same with an addition to the west.

Is anyone else interested in this? I guess it's just a basic cloning of existing factions, a larger map, and a couple of tweaks with Vladimir, Volga, and Kypchaks. I also had an idea for religion for Tengriism. I was thinking of a building that is somewhat similar to monasteries that Vladimir has, but have them available earlier on. Instead of increasing Tengriism in the region, it could be like -4%/-7% growth of other religions (so missionaries would be significantly less effective in regions that have those buildings). Having Tengric (is that a word?) missionaries and converting effectively both in home and foreign wasn't accurate at all, but before the Mongol (and later Russian Empire) conquests of the area, the best Christian missionaries could do was establish a minority.

**VataR** · February 12, 2016, 06:31 AM

I will let the team know

**Peanut2bigforyou** · February 16, 2016, 01:46 AM

Doing some research, I quickly reevaluated my desires (I was speaking out of hopes of a grand scheme plan, which isn't very helpful). I also decided it would be best to try to keep away from moving this mod to westward. So, I think I'll start a sub-mod which slightly changes the map; I plan on having the map be extended to Tarnovo (Bulgarian capital at 1174), which I plan to add, as well as Athens (no land bridge). I think I will take, if I have to (I don't know the region count), one from just south of the Caspian, and another from the Ghurids. Instead of Hungary, which I now believe to be much to west, I want Bulgaria as a new faction (as well as Kievan Rus). I will also change Silistra to be Preslav, to better represent the struggle between Bulgaria and Byzantium. Belgorod will also be controlled by the Kipchaks at the beginning of the campaign; Bulgaria and Cumans were allies when Bulgaria fought Byzantium for liberation, and the change will provide a better struggle between Kiev and Kypchaks, who were at war at the time.

Bulgaria will have one region, Tarnovo, with the initial king being Mihailo Vojislavljević [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihail...avljevi%C4%87], with the prince being Constantine Bodin [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Bodin], who will have two infant sons, Theodore (heir to Bodin) and Asen, the liberators of Bulgaria. There will also be Dobroslav (eldest, but not heir) and a daughter (name unknown) as an unwed princess. I'll have Bulgaria start off as vassals to Byzantium, and hopefully have the same option Makuria has with Egypt.

I plan to have Kievan Rus start with Chernigov as well as Kiev (even though Chernigov's situation with Kiev at 1174 was probably similar to Bulgaria's with Byzantium) to simulate it's local power at the time. The leader of Kiev changed dramatically at the time, so I will take the choice of having Yaroslav II Iziaslavich be the king (I believe that's the person you guys were going for with the Rebel general), with Vsevolod Yaroslavich (heir, gov of Chernigov), Izyaslav Yaroslavich, and Mstyslav the Mute being the sons [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_II_of_Kiev]. Kypchaks will be at war with Kievan Rus (as well as the Kypchaks being at war with Byzantium). I will also plan on having two rebel armies near Kiev (to simulate the political turmoil), and one near Chernigov (to simulate the forming liberation of the Principality of Chernigov).

I think the addition of Kiev and Bulgaria will really liven up that area, and make the campaigns of Rome, Kypchaks, and Vladmir much more enjoyable and full. (I also plan on adding a rebel army between Ryazan and Vladimir, to simulate the war between the two Russian factions, as well as making it more difficult for Vladimir to swiftly conquer Volga-Bulgar). The addition of another Catholic faction would also make the religious aspect of the game even more intricate, particularly in the western parts of the map. Athens will start under Roman control, but I don't know anything about those two rebel armies on the Greek peninsula. Again, I can really only make clones of Vladimir for Kiev, and KoJ for Bulgaria. The consequences of this is a less unique roster of units, silver-surfer textures of those units, and general misinterpretation of Kiev and Bulgaria. I also don't know how to add the faction start message, which is a really nice addition, nor do I know how to add the vassal situation that Makuria has at the beginning of the campaign with Egypt. I also plan to re-purpose Tibet into the "impassable region"; by this I mean that it's political borders will simulate the Arabian Desert and the African Desert (like previous BC versions had), as well as keep the territory and city in Tibet intact.

**Peanut2bigforyou** · February 16, 2016, 05:54 PM

I have ran into a problem while using Geomod to change the map. If you're interested in this sub-mod, and you think you could help, I'd really appreciate if you took a look at the problem (posted in workshop - link leads you there).

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...5#post14852735

**Kavhan Isbul** · February 16, 2016, 06:47 PM

Historically, Bulgaria achieved its independence from the Eastern Roman Empire in 1185, so it does not quite fit the start of BC. I guess it could be an emerging faction, but that would be taking a slot away from a playable faction.

**Peanut2bigforyou** · February 16, 2016, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kavhan Isbul

Historically, Bulgaria achieved its independence from the Eastern Roman Empire in 1185, so it does not quite fit the start of BC. I guess it could be an emerging faction, but that would be taking a slot away from a playable faction.

Right, Bulgaria gained it's independence in 1185, but the war for independence was on and off for decades before that. In 1172, the first attempt to capture Preslav (the regional capital appointed by Byzantine Emperors) was done by Mihailo Vojislavljević, the faction leader I will eventually have Bulgaria start with. Mihailo Vojislavljević actaully sent his son, Constantine Bodin (so perhaps he will be leader, I'll have to figure out when Mihailo died, as it could have been before 1174) to fight a war for independence. When he lost, Bodin made an agreement with the the Byzantine doux of Skopje, Nikephoros Karantenos, to continue the standing diplomatic standing, that Bulgaria is a vassal to Constantinople.

In my eyes, Bulgaria's situation is very similar to Makuria's with Egypt. Although at the starting year, 1174, historically neither Makuria nor Bulgaria were separated from their ruling nations, Egypt and Byzantium, respectively.

**Kavhan Isbul** · February 17, 2016, 01:47 PM

I am confused here, because the Serbian rulers you mention and Voyteh's rebellion took place over a century prior to the start of BC.

The Asen and Teodor (Petar) rebellion started in 1185, partially as a result of Andronik's disastrous rule. There is an Andronik event currently in the mod (though it does not seem to do anything). Prior to that, during the Komnins there seems to have been very little if any dissent in Bulgaria against Imperial rule.

**Peanut2bigforyou** · February 17, 2016, 08:18 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihail...lavljevi%C4%87

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Bodin

This is essentially where I'm getting my information from. Both of these people actively fought against the Byzantines before 1174, the starting year in BC 2.4

Because they were active, and organized fighting occurred before 1174, I see good precedent to include them as a starting faction. If the team doesn't decide to go this route, that's fine. I'm still going to make a sub-mod about it though. 2.4 is fantastic, so I'm trying not to complain or anything, I'm just trying to get my desires for this mod out to the public