Finances of the Mexican drug cartel damaged significantly by Colorado marijuana legalization

[Roma_Victrix]

wow, you mean, like alcohol smuggling became pointless after the end of the prohibition? what a surprise!

now, if people only realized that drug crime is only possible because criminals run the drug market, and 1 and 1 is 2, we could make some headway.

That's probably asking too much from some folks.

Yep, let's replace cartels with the government selling drugs to our children. At least, police was fighting against cartels. Who'll protect our children from the government? The drug money is not going to Mexico, it goes nowadays to the corrupt state officials.

There are a couple things that are just terribly wrong about your assertions here. For starters, your insistence that the government will be selling marijuana to children (i.e. persons below the age of 18), when marijuana use would be regulated like any other legal drug, such as tobacco being sold only to adults above the age of 18 and, at least in the US, alcohol to those above the age of 21 (it's 18 in the UK and many other countries). Gee! There goes that idea! Do kids under the age of 18 still smoke cigarettes and drink beer? Sure. If they can get their hands on them. The funny thing is kids have much easier access to marijuana when it is sold by a drug dealer they can know through a friend, instead of a store clerk who would have to card them and ask for ID. In essence, your argument here is self-defeating, because you are basically arguing for the idea that makes it MORE PROBABLE FOR KIDS TO ACCESS MARIJUANA.

Secondly, the government? Really? That's funny. The government and ole Uncle Sam is certainly going to want a piece of the pie via the sales tax when it comes to selling marijuana legally. That'll be handled by private interests, small businesses and corporations, not the federal or even state governments. I can't speak about Turkey (your home country), but that's the way it will be in the US. I can honestly see why you think this way, seeing how Erdogan would definitely take over everything Putin style if he chose to legalize pot in Turkey. Then he'd find a convenient way to funnel all the proceeds from the state monopoly to himself and his family members. Sounds about right, doesn't it?

How about the finances of the prison-industrial complex?
Were they hurt at all?
No research about that?

Literally the one thing I fear about marijuana legalization is an excuse for police in various parts of the country to step up their arrest quotas for other things, in order to meet their municipal and local department's expectations on top of the soul-crushing and insatiable demands of the for-profit prison system. I'm not so worried about the predicted Great Doritos Shortage of 2017, as presaged by Vanoi above.

About prostitution: it is legal in Germany now for some years. And it has changed nothing. Those people that went there always will go there, and the others still wont because it is unsexy and unmanly (and unethical). Same with drugs. If they legalize crystal meth, I will still not try it. If somebody is so dumb to try it, he would be that dumb also if it was illegal. Or he would try something similar stupid to kill his mind. For example alcohol. And about marijuana: so many normal people I know take it or have taken it. If it would cause all those damages to the mind, body and society that some people believe it does, Armageddon would have happenened long ago. It may not be harmless, but it is less dangerous than a unit of screeching women against a unit of pretorians with full armor upgrades.

I'm glad that you couched this in such a way that anyone who played Rome: Total War would instantly understand it. Repped.

Like this one?

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/...owers-iq-teens

No one said marijuana was harmless. I asked what damage it is doing to society as a whole, not the individual.

Compared to whiskey and hard liquor (which trashes your liver, severely reduces judgment, and could potentially kill you with alcohol poisoning), marijuana is about as consequential and damaging as having a papercut versus amputation. If you smoke too much marijuana you'll kill a decent amount of brain cells, while temporarily becoming apathetic, lazy, giggly, and spaced out/unable to focus or concentrate very hard on things. If you drink too much alcohol, you'll also kill brain cells, but you'll also most likely kill yourself via poisoning. Or worse, you could get behind the wheel of a car blackout drunk and run over a bunch of schoolchildren. On too much pot you'd probably be pressing the brakes every ten seconds out of paranoia/too much caution.

I fail to see the comparison in that. They're basically incomparable in terms of the level of danger.

[Vanoi]

What is bad for a large percentage of individuals is bad for society. Tobacco and alcohol already are demonized and regulated to death. But even if not, how do two wrongs make a right? Just because one bad thing's allowed doesn't mean all other bad things are OK. Whatever you can gain from drugs can be gained in other ways.

You just said marijuana is harmful to society and thus it should remain illegal. Alcohol and tobacco will collectively kill hundreds of thousands of people this year but are legal. Why?

Marijuana has medical benefits. Its not even close to as harmful as alcohol and tobacco. Why does it need to be banned?

[Odenat]

There are a couple things that are just terribly wrong about your assertions here. For starters, your insistence that the government will be selling marijuana to children (i.e. persons below the age of 18), when marijuana use would be regulated like any other legal drug, such as tobacco being sold only to adults above the age of 18 and, at least in the US, alcoholo to those above the age of 21 (it's 18 in the UK and many other countries). Gee! There goes that idea! Do kids under the age of 18 still smoke cigarettes and drink beer? Sure. If they can get their hands on them. The funny thing is kids have much easier access to marijuana when it is sold by a drug dealer they can know through a friend, instead of a store clerk who would have to card them and ask for ID. In essence, your argument here is self-defeating, because you are basically arguing for the idea that makes it MORE PROBABLE FOR KIDS TO ACCESS MARIJUANA.

Secondly, the government? Really? That's funny. The government and ole Uncle Sam is certainly going to want a piece of the pie via the sales tax when it comes to selling marijuana legally. That'll be handled by private interests, small businesses and corporations, not the federal or even state governments. I can't speak about Turkey (your home country), but that's the way it will be in the US. I can honestly see why you think this way, seeing how Erdogan would definitely take over everything Putin style if he chose to legalize pot in Turkey. Then he'd find a convenient way to funnel all the proceeds from the state monopoly to himself and his family members. Sounds about right, doesn't it?

You are delusional if you think people under 18 years old can not reach drugs (or alcool) because it's forbidden, neither at USA nor at any country in the world. Children will easily reach it if you will start selling drugs in every shop. And saying "it's not drugs, only marijuana" is a good advertisement for the "small businesses and corporations" you mentioned. In the reality, drugs will be sold by billion dollar companies, similar to tobacco, who'll do everything to buy government officials and media to protect their profits.

Also not only marijuana is bad for health, it's also the first steps towards using more hardcore drugs.

http://www.webmd.com/news/breaking-n...juana-safe-web

[snuggans]

opioids are prescribed by doctors, which then leads to opioid abuse or even heroin abuse. what if marijuana could be prescribed instead of opioids?

also, alcohol and tobacco already act as gateway substances because they are also used in the same scene that would offer you harder drugs or do them in public. might as well regulate underage marijuana consumption with IDs like you do with alcohol and tobacco, while reducing the number of illegal places they can get it from without an ID.

the pros of legalizing marijuana outweigh its cons, which are similar to what we already have with substances like tobacco, alcohol, opioids and prescribed medications. most of these overshadow marjuana's negative effects.

in return we'd get more robust research for industrial and medicinal purposes, more jobs, more tax revenues, more regulation and safety standards of the drug, better judicial system and less packed prisons, better policing and community relations...

marijuana can actually be used as a substitute for more dangerous substances and drugs, it's called an addiction transfer, although you probably won't find many therapists telling you to go smoke weed to get over your heroin addiction, obviously for most users downgrading from heroin to marijuana is some sort of bad joke, but it can work for certain addictions and in certain people.

[Vanoi]

You are delusional if you think people under 18 years old can not reach drugs (or alcool) because it's forbidden, neither at USA nor at any country in the world. Children will easily reach it if you will start selling drugs in every shop. And saying "it's not drugs, only marijuana" is a good advertisement for the "small businesses and corporations" you mentioned. In the reality, drugs will be sold by billion dollar companies, similar to tobacco, who'll do everything to buy government officials and media to protect their profits.

Teenagers will always be able to get access to drugs, shops or not.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it needs to be illegal.

[Odenat]

Teenagers will always be able to get access to drugs, shops or not.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it needs to be illegal.

Because it's bad for health. Because it is the first step towards using more hardcore drugs. Because it's destroying the society.

Enough?

[Roma_Victrix]

You are delusional if you think people under 18 years old can not reach drugs (or alcool) because it's forbidden, neither at USA nor at any country in the world. Children will easily reach it if you will start selling drugs in every shop. And saying "it's not drugs, only marijuana" is a good advertisement for the "small businesses and corporations" you mentioned. In the reality, drugs will be sold by billion dollar companies, similar to tobacco, who'll do everything to buy government officials and media to protect their profits.

Also not only marijuana is bad for health, it's also the first steps towards using more hardcore drugs.

http://www.webmd.com/news/breaking-n...juana-safe-web

I already said that kids under 18 smoke cigarettes and drink beer despite those being legal, so what exactly are you arguing here? You're basically restating something that I already said as your own argument and then calling me delusional. That's rich.

That WebMD article you shared is laughable, Odenat. After reading it and comparing the benign health risks of marijuana to alcohol, one could only come away with the question (posed by Vanoi) as to why the hell marijuana is still illegal. It's illegal because it's a great way to throw blacks and Mexicans into jail for doing something harmless to themselves and others. That is quite LITERALLY the reason it was outlawed in the US in the first place.

The greatest gem from that article you shared, after it basically admitted there is no evidence linking marijuana smoke to lung cancer:

Eat It Instead?

Although smoking is the most common way to use marijuana, some people bake it into a brownie or other food. Eating pot might spare you the lung effects of this drug, but that doesn't mean it's safe.

Because it takes a while for your body to digest marijuana, you might not feel the effects very quickly. If you keep eating more to get high, you could overdose. Signs of an overdose include sudden anxiety and panic.

Marijuana hangs out in the body longer when it's eaten than when it's smoked, so you could feel the hangover effects -- like a dry mouth and bloodshot eyes -- well into the next day.

OH MY GOD! STOP THE PRESSES EVERYONE! Taking way too much marijuana at once can give you some anxiety, and make your mouth a little dry and your eyes a bit red temporarily! Meanwhile, people who overdose on alcohol are usually dead, or extremely lucky that they're not dead from literal poisoning. And people who do smoke cigarettes are proven to be far more likely to get lung cancer.

Quite honestly, if anyone uses marijuana, they should eat it instead of smoke it, simply because it might cause damage to the lungs over the long term, after many years of hard usage (and no, I'm not talking about smoking marijuana once or twice a month or even once or twice a week, I'm talking once or twice a day at least). Seriously, Odenat, your scare tactics here fail miserably and even your article here can't make a solid argument against marijuana except for the lame and tired gateway drug argument. As Snuggans rightly suggests below, an environment with cigarettes and alcohol is just as likely to lead someone down the path of using cocaine or meth.

As for behavioral issues, marijuana may make you lazy and lack motivation if you use it too much, but what happens if you use alcohol too much instead of in moderation and on an infrequent basis? People do more than lose their judgment and critical thinking skills, they can also become prone to violent and anti-social behavior on alcohol, ruin relationships with family and friends with rude and hostile attitudes, or engage in physical activities that will do themselves or others considerable harm. I don't think people who are high should be driving and operating vehicles, just like alcohol, but yet again here's a scenario where marijuana is much, much safer than alcohol by an exponential degree.

Got anymore brilliant articles for us?

Because it's bad for health. Because it is the first step towards using more hardcore drugs. Because it's destroying the society.

This sounds a lot better when read in the voice of a North Korean news anchor.

[Prodromos]

this is true but a lot of these studies are jokes employing flawed methodology like honesty tests and always concluding with correlation rather than causation, mostly because they can't get their hands on research-grade marijuana and actually administer it to patients since marijuana is schedule I.

there's a lot of money coming from the tobacco, timber, pulp and paper industries and religious groups buying politicians and studies. most studies on marijuana are oriented towards investigating the harmful effects and not the positive, therapeutic or medicinal ones.

some pretty good news from the OP's article

Correlation is not causation, but when you consider the obscene number of studies linking marijuana use, especially at young ages, to numerous illnesses, it is absurd to say the science is settled and marijuana is harmless.

You just said marijuana is harmful to society and thus it should remain illegal. Alcohol and tobacco will collectively kill hundreds of thousands of people this year but are legal. Why?

Marijuana has medical benefits. Its not even close to as harmful as alcohol and tobacco. Why does it need to be banned?

It has no benefits, and even if it did, the benefits can be gained from other sources than drugs. And I didn't say it should be illegal. There are countless things that are bad but still legal.

[Vanoi]

It has no benefits, and even if it did, the benefits can be gained from other sources than drugs.

Oh this is going to be good. Prove it. Prove marijuana has no medical benefits.

Its been pointed out that marijuana can relieve pain. some people cannot take heavy painkillers like opiates and marijuana can fill in that niche just fine.

[Heathen Hammer]

I always assumed the main profit for cartels is coming from selling cocaine, and not marijuana. Nobody really needs cartels to grow marijuana, I mean you can grow it in your own closet, provided you have the equipment.
They should legalize cocaine, that would definitely sting the cartels where it hurts!

[Prodromos]

Oh this is going to be good. Prove it. Prove marijuana has no medical benefits.

Its been pointed out that marijuana can relieve pain. some people cannot take heavy painkillers like opiates and marijuana can fill in that niche just fine.

Marijuana's medicinal benefits are disputed or exaggerated. But let's be honest: the vast, vast, vast majority of people who smoke marijuana don't do it for medicinal purposes.

JAMA Meta-analysis Finds Mixed Results for Medical Marijuana Use

[Vanoi]

Marijuana's medicinal benefits are disputed or exaggerated. But let's be honest: the vast, vast, vast majority of people who smoke marijuana don't do it for medicinal purposes.

JAMA Meta-analysis Finds Mixed Results for Medical Marijuana Use

So medical marijuana does have medical benefits (the very first paragraph of the article indicates this). It means absolutely nothing if the vast majority of people don't use it for medicinal purposes. Your claim you made is dead wrong, and you proved mine true.

[Prodromos]

So medical marijuana does have medical benefits (the very first paragraph of the article indicates this). It means absolutely nothing if the vast majority of people don't use it for medicinal purposes. Your claim you made is dead wrong, and you proved mine true.

The evidence is mixed at best. Marijuana advocates seem to think it will usher in a utopia. Schools will get billions of dollars from sales and business taxes. Cartels will disintegrate. Crime will plummet. Sick people will finally be treated. etc.

Just be honest about it dude. You want it to get legalized so you can get high.

[Gäiten]

Maybe you could compare what might happen with a free access of Marihuana to what has happened with the free access of sugar ...

[Vanoi]

The evidence is mixed at best.

Mixed? Again your source directly says there are medical benefits. And more scientific studies should confirm this.

Just be honest about it dude. You want it to get legalized so you can get high.

Maybe i am an American tired of his tax money going towards combatting a drug that is less harmful than tobacco and alcohol. Tired of people goign to jail and having to pay for them over such a minor drug.

What you need to admit is the War on Drugs has utterly and completely failed and we need to change our approach.

Because it's bad for health.

Already sell more harmful tobacco and alcohol to people. So why not less harmful marijuana?

Because it is the first step towards using more hardcore drugs. Because it's destroying the society.

The gateway drug theory is not accepted by everyone. Smoking weed isn't going to lead you to start shooting up heroin. You are taking the responsibility out of people who make their own choices.

How is marijuana destroying my society Odenat? Tell me. Are people overdosing? are there marijuana addicts in the streets everywhere?

[Roma_Victrix]

Just be honest about it dude. You want it to get legalized so you can get high.

And people want alcohol to be legal so they can get drunk or relax with a beer in the evening after working 9 to 5 every day. Got any other brilliant insights for us?

You know what, Dr. Legend? I don't think you should be allowed to drink beer.

That beer you've got in your hand? Toss it in the trash right now, mister!

I think beer is wrong, immoral, and getting drunk is a danger to society. I think we should outlaw alcohol, because all you really want to do with it is get drunk and have a good time. In fact, I think we should go as far as adding a new amendment to the US Constitution to ban alcohol entirely. If you drink alcohol, you can just go straight to jail as far as I'm concerned. And if you sell or smuggle alcohol, I think the penalties should be even more severe. Clearly I'm right, and you're wrong. Banning alcohol will totally not have any adverse effects either, like violent criminal gangs hoarding alcohol and selling it in underground speakeasies and literally killing people over it due to the legal risk involved. I mean, it's not like such a prohibition on alcohol would ever lead to something like this:

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Marijuana is not addictive unless it's enhanced by chemicals to be addictive!

The same applies for tobacco, and macdonalds

[Prodromos]

I have repeatedly said that marijuana should be legal but discouraged and avoided like every other harmful but legal behavior. Now we have people saying that marijuana should be used because it isn't as harmful as alcohol. Presumably these people believe people should go and shoot themselves in the arms, because after all, it is not quite as harmful as getting shot in the heart. Maybe we should nuke the UK. After all, it would not be as harmful as nuking all of Europe. Maybe we should get rid of the first 6 amendments to the Constitution. After all, it would not be as harmful as getting rid of all the amendments. Marijuana logic.

[Roma_Victrix]

You know what, Dr. Legend? I think, philosophically speaking, you should be rigorously consistent in your views when it comes to deriving pleasure from drugs. I mentioned beer above, but you know what else is totally legal, is absolutely horrible for your health in the long-run, and gives you a high of momentary pleasure? McDonalds.



In addition to those greasy awful cheeseburgers that eventually clog your arteries, you can pile on the pleasure and misery with an extra large chocolate milkshake on the side! He'll, I'd venture to argue that consuming too much sugar in the long-run is far more detrimental to your health than marijuana, by a long-shot. For starters, consuming too much marijuana isn't going to kill you, whereas consuming too much sugar leads to obesity, diabetes, and even kidney disease. That's right, Dr. Legend, the items in this picture below ARE ACTUALLY MORE DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH THAN MARIJUANA.



In addition to marijuana, should we ban the McCafe Strawberry Shake too? Just to be consistent? Or should we, I don't know (and this is a radical idea), perhaps treat adults like adults and have them be responsible for their own life choices and decisions regarding their own health and well being? Gee, that's a ing tough one.

The 2010 South Park episode "Medicinal Fried Chicken" actually made a similar point, although they used KFC (which, hilariously, became banned as soon as marijuana became legal):

Marijuana is not addictive unless it's enhanced by chemicals to be addictive!

The same applies for tobacco, and macdonalds

What are you, a wizard or something? Surely this cannot be a coincidence. I was busy writing this post when you submitted yours (several minute difference there, 9:44 vs 9:55)...somehow you were able to read my mind and predict the exact fast food chain I was about to bring up. That's the only logical explanation.

[fkizz]

We need an alarmist photoshoop of someone injecting a syringue worth of marijuanna