Macedonian Wars

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

I see! Thank you for your answers!

The campaign should, nonetheless, be very much playable as it is now, I assume, right? Even after the recent updates.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

It should be, although we have had some reports after the last few patches about Empire Maintenance being way too high compared to before.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

I see. I think I will just give it a try and if I find anything badly off-balance, I will let you, guys, know.

[boblikesoup]

Yeah, I agree. We had planned to do the army scripts but have gotten caught up in other things. I will make sure we remember this for 1.15 or 1.2.

+1 for more work on Macedonian Wars. The most interesting mini-campaign to me.

I want to play with Sparta in macedonian wars

That's my top pick for the campaign as well.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Just in case people keep not reading the multiple posts about it already in the thread, there is a more factions playable mod already for this sub campaign that has Sparta and most all the other factions listed as playable factions.
It has existed nearly as long as the sub campaign has.

[thefr0zenc0unt]

Hello guys,

I have read some of the comments, so I know you are not working on this campaign at the moment. I have enjoyed playing this mod a lot, so congrats on making such a good one!
Some feedback from me, just because I think it is always good to get information from the ordinary gamer. I have not read all the comments so excuse me if anybody else has already told the things I am going to tell below, or things are just not possible because of difficulties with modding, I am not a modder myself so I do not know much about it.

1. Playing as Macedon on normal difficulty is quite easy. In the very beginning the economy is strong enough to sustain at least two stacks in mainland northern greece, a garrison in Miletus, a garrison in Chalkis and a fleet in the aigean. The only threat very early on is the aitolian league and once you blitz them and conquer their territory, your position is very strong. Epirus may have taken some hits from an aggresive Rome in the early phases (Rome did not even attack every time I played this campaign, sometimes they would just sit in Korkyra and raid a little with their navy), but if it gives Epirus the chance to build up their country and military they will actually go even with them. So your western borders are secure and from then on you can do what you wish in mainland Greece. Athens, Sparta and Elis can be crushed one at a time, largely because the Achean league will support you in everything you do. After the whole peloponnese is secure you are so much more powerfull than any faction that further wars should not be problem.
I read that setting the difficulty higher can cause unit imbalances, but maybe it is recommended?
2. Playing as the Seleukids proved to be challenging and really fun. I would say really well made! The unit roster of the Seleukids is also great. The only thing I would personally add is Antiochus III the Great as their faction leader. It would give the faction more 'greatness' haha.
3. Pushing an enemy faction into peace is really hard. playing different factions, annihilating enemy field armies did not cause the enemy faction to sue for peace, even if my two stack field army besieged their only city and I offered them 10000 drachmes. I found that to be a little frustating at times. I play with several (official!) submods on that modify diplomatics, it might be caused by that maybe? I do not have the same problem in other campaigns so i think it is weird haha.
4. I personnaly found the Pergamene unit roster to be a little underpowered. There are no unique pikemen (I guess the Attalids did have a solid body of pikemen, right?), only standard phalangites. The Seleukids have a stronger roster, and it is difficult to counter their combination of cataphracts, elephants and their famous silver shields. That is totally fine, still I would to see some more unique units.
5. In general, is it possible to make a mod that increases unit sizes? I know it would make the battlefield really small relatively speaking (Is that hardcoded?) but an army of 4000 men at best just does not feel right when battles like Cynocephalae and Magnesia were fought with tens of thousands. That is not practically possible I know, but maybe an enlargement to 30 units per army, or enlarging the unit size 25% are options?

I could think of some other things/ideas but this is already a good starting reply for me haha. Let me know what you think!

[Ivan_Moscavich]

You can set campaign difficulty to whatever you want. Just make sure to set battle difficulty back down to normal. Battle difficulty is what seriously messes up the combat.

We didn't give much attention to this seleucid Empire because they are not a standard playable faction for that sub campaign.
When we run back through the sub campaigns we will likely add more historical starting leaders if we missed any.

Which sub mods are you using?

Pergamon should have access to all of their thureos units. Including the elite thureos spears. Along with their better than average cavalry and available mercenaries you should be able to create a very strong and flexible Army.

Editing the size of armies requires save data editing. That is not something that will ever be part of the main mod.
It is possible to do by save editing and there are tutorials on the forms how to do it if it interests you.

[thefr0zenc0unt]

Ivan Moscavich,

Thankyou for replying!

I looked up which mods I use and it seems I only use the Sack, Confederate and Liberate mod from Dresden when it comes to diplomacy.
Could you please get me a link to one of those tutorials?

Thankyou!

[CadetNewb]

The last time I played this, Macedon was very passive. I don't know if it was just that playthrough by chance, but did anyone else have that happen? I think they mentioned having fixed that or something in a previous post, but this was only a few months ago.

[Dumanthis]

Multiplayer-wise the campaign does not make much sense with the factions currently available in the mod: Macedonia is big and all mighty, and all others are against so other player has to play Macedonia for sure. The power balance is also not the best between Macedonia and the other playable factions.

[Scion of Africanus]

Hello guys,
[...]
1. Playing as Macedon on normal difficulty is quite easy. In the very beginning the economy is strong enough to sustain at least two stacks in mainland northern greece, a garrison in Miletus, a garrison in Chalkis and a fleet in the aigean. The only threat very early on is the aitolian league and once you blitz them and conquer their territory, your position is very strong. Epirus may have taken some hits from an aggresive Rome in the early phases (Rome did not even attack every time I played this campaign, sometimes they would just sit in Korkyra and raid a little with their navy), but if it gives Epirus the chance to build up their country and military they will actually go even with them. So your western borders are secure and from then on you can do what you wish in mainland Greece. Athens, Sparta and Elis can be crushed one at a time, largely because the Achean league will support you in everything you do. After the whole peloponnese is secure you are so much more powerfull than any faction that further wars should not be problem.
I read that setting the difficulty higher can cause unit imbalances, but maybe it is recommended?

[...]

3. Pushing an enemy faction into peace is really hard. playing different factions, annihilating enemy field armies did not cause the enemy faction to sue for peace, even if my two stack field army besieged their only city and I offered them 10000 drachmes. I found that to be a little frustating at times. I play with several (official!) submods on that modify diplomatics, it might be caused by that maybe? I do not have the same problem in other campaigns so i think it is weird haha.

Salve!

I have been away from here for some time but I have been diligently roleplaying as Makedon and so can provide you with some insight for your 1st and 3rd points.

1. Yes, it is easy. I roleplay Makedon somewhat in line with historical reality... The kingdom was at odds with all of its neighbors save the Achaean League and had an interesting but opportunistic relationship with Rome which, if we want to show any semblance of respect for the DEI team, we simply must dismantle so that pikes face gladii in a cataclysmic clash of titans. Gone is the age when Phillip II cultivated the military aristocracy, expanded his domain carefully and tactfully used the precarious balance of the carrot and stick with the squabbling Greek city-states (though mostly stick) to bend and unite Greece towards a greater purpose: the invasion of Asia. Since there are newer and more powerful adversaries for Makedon currently than during the second half of the 4th century (mainly the other Successor Kingdoms and Rome), I used diplomacy to piss off most of Makedon's neighbors except for the Achaean League - Makedon's traditional ally during the First Macedonian War - and provoke them into war. Try doing so via diplomacy or agent actions. I've been at war with at least 3 other states at any given moment, though not with a few allies or client states of my own, and it has been interesting. The most enjoyable part was allowing a civil war to take place and then roleplaying diplomacy with some of my allies or client states & satrapies to have them break from me and even declare war. It was like having a fresh campaign all over again, but this time, I have a full army composed of mostly single gold-chevroned Basilikoi Peltastai, Basilikoi Peltastai Phalangitai, Agema and Hypaspitai Agematos with some Thessaloi Hippeis (I am befuddled, however, that a level 3 Hoplite Barracks does not produce Hetairoi or their Hellenistic equivalent and in the info screen for the level 4 Hoplite Barracks I do not seem to gain any other units for recruitment... but I digress.)
Declare war loosely and then follow through to see how entertaining it can be to be the regional hegemon ganged up on by smaller powers. Very satisfying to crush them.

3. The diplomacy pack from Dresden helps. I also use diplomacy_mod.pack which helps me to roleplay diplomacy and has been stable and functional for me so far but it has not been updated in over 4 years.

I am almost done retaking my Makedonian Rivals' last settlements and will then declare war on the Seleukid Empire and Ptolemaic Kingdom, as well as Rhodes and.. well, everyone else not already my ally, client state or satrapy just to raise the stakes for the late game.
The joy will come after finishing this and trying to play the Grand Campaign with a severely weakened Makedon once more. In my last campaign there, I was foolish enough to agree to an alliance to Epirus while they were at war with Rome, in the interests of the peninsula, and then the pride in the modest territorial gains I had made was quickly replaced by horror at the full Roman stacks landing on the shores of Epirus and taking their first settlement after barely one battle. I had barely one full stack and an auxiliary half-stack. Alas, Rome does not forget an injury... And then CA via Steam apathetically updated and ruined my game and here I came to MW.

[Scion of Africanus]

On another note:

Why does the level 4 Hoplite Barracks not indicate any new units that I can recruit while playing as Makedon?
The tooltip and the info screen (upon right clicking the icon) displays only a modest garrison improvement composed of units already in my recruitment roster and no new units to recruit. Unless this changes once I can build it - I am researching the technology, but I doubt that.

The Makedonian Rivals' stacks, in comparison, include Hypaspitai Somatophylakes as non-general units and their general's mounted unit (I can't recall the name and I can't reference it since I've annihilated all their stacks at this stage) was always different than mine, probably of a higher level but I am unsure. I find it hard to believe there are no superior mounted units to the Thessaloi Hippeis. Where are the famed Hetairoi or their contemporary successors?

[KAM 2150]

They did not have Hetairoi for a long time when Macedonian Wars staryed, they had Ile Basilike, which at that point was heavy skirmisher cavalry.

[Scion of Africanus]

They did not have Hetairoi for a long time when Macedonian Wars staryed, they had Ile Basilike, which at that point was heavy skirmisher cavalry.

Salve Kam. Where did Rollo go?!

Even a whole century after Alexander's death, when the First Macedonian War began, the Diadochi still had Hetairoi in some form or another, although not titled exactly the same - elite shock cavalry did not merely cease to exist. But that's not my concern... does the Level 4 (Royal) Makedonian barracks unlock recruitment of any new units? Basilike Ile and Somatophylakes are the only two units I cannot currently recruit even with Level 3 (Hoplite) barracks yet my Makedonian Rivals have them. The only Basilike Ile units I have belong to my Basileus in Pella and my army in Ionia (one each) when I started the campaign.

http://oi65.tinypic.com/aynb7n.jpg

[KAM 2150]

They did not had Hetairoi, Hetairoi is a regimental name, which went to Seleucids, Macedonian after Alexander used Hiera and Basilike Ile, at first in a shock cavalry manner with lances, later as heavy cavalry skirmishers. This is also how it works in DeI, Macedonia starts with shock Basilike Ile, that later changes to ranged Basilike Ile. Shock cavalry spirit ceased to exist for them to such extent that they were surprised by frontal cavalry charges of Romans.

Now in case of 4th barracks, they do not unlock any new units. It seems that recruitment is bugged in that campaign as Basilike Ile should be avaliable from 2nd barrack level if I remember. We will take a look and add it to the fix.

[Scion of Africanus]

Salve Kam.

Indeed, melee cavalry was a bit of a nasty surprise for Makedon!
Thank you for addressing my concern and for supporting such a great mod.

[eliasandersson]

Nice to hear about the updates for the WoS campaign! Any news on updating the greek minor faction generals? They have their original models from the vanilla WoS campaign. Would be nice to see the generals DeI have for regular greek factions.