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Thread: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

  1. #1

    Default Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    John Cleese, co-founder of Monty Python, actor and comedian, who most would probably recognize from the below picture points out how illiberal the Western world is becoming, starting from US colleges.


    http://bigthink.com/videos/john-clee...al-correctness
    John Cleese: I'm offended every day. For example, the British newspapers every day offend me with their laziness, their nastiness, and their inaccuracy, but I'm not going to expect someone to stop that happening; I just simply speak out about it. Sometimes when people are offended they want — you can just come in and say, "Right, stop that." to whoever it is offending them. And, of course, as a former chairman of the BBC one said, "There are some people who I would wish to offend." And I think there's truth in that too. So the idea that you have to be protected from any kind of uncomfortable emotion is what I absolutely do not subscribe to. And a fellow who I helped write two books about psychology and psychiatry was a renowned psychiatrist in London called Robin Skynner said something very interesting to me. He said, "If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behavior." And when you're around super-sensitive people, you cannot relax and be spontaneous because you have no idea what's going to upset them next. And that's why I've been warned recently don't to go to most university campuses because the political correctness has been taken from being a good idea, which is let's not be mean in particular to people who are not able to look after themselves very well — that's a good idea — to the point where any kind of criticism or any individual or group could be labeled cruel.

    And the whole point about humor, the whole point about comedy, and believe you me I thought about this, is that all comedy is critical. Even if you make a very inclusive joke like how would you make God laugh? Answer: Tell him your plans. Now that's about the human condition; it's not excluding anyone. It's saying we all have all these plans, which probably won't come and isn't it funny how we still believe they're going to happen. So that's a very inclusive joke. It's still critical. All humor is critical. If you start to say, "We mustn't; we mustn't criticize or offend them," then humor is gone. With humor goes a sense of proportion. And then as far as I'm concerned, you're living in 1984.

    John Cleese is no longer going to perform in colleges because it might upset so called ''social justice movements'' and their causes.
    He had already stopped working with another channel of political correctness, that is BBC.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/bbc/...BBC-again.html


    A decade ago, we were debating on these forums about censoring cartoons about Mohammed, because someone might get offended. Political correctness won that battle, South Park was censored, several other media adopted censorship to avoid upsetting Muslim communities. It was a dangerous precedent.
    Year 2015, social justice warriors that infest US colleges start demanding ''safe spaces'' from anything that offends their precious feelings.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-in-our-faces/
    Apparently even honoring Woodrow Wilson offends students feelings in Priceton.
    Yale and University of Minnesota Students went even further starting hunger strikes to have ''safe spaces''.
    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...11-column.html

    Truth be told, even when commenting the TWC's Mudpit, I have seen people complaining that they find people's different views ''offensive''.

    And this is exactly what people arguing against political correctness predicted.
    First it was just Mohammad and the Muslims, then came ''fat shaming'', then ''transphobia'' and the insanity continues as social justice warriors start eating themselves, banning ''The Vagina Monologues'' because it might offend people who identify as female but do not have a vagina.
    http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6202
    Not feminist enough.

    Who is to blame for the perversion of liberal ideas and their suicide/assisted-murder?
    A liberal US college professor for once accepted his responsibilities.
    http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/...ofessor-afraid

    PC obviously affects us in other ways, as seen with the initial attempts to cover up the NYE sex harassment cases perpetrated by refugees by the German police and mainstream media. Reporting facts is now racist or sexist. Statistics too.

    Let's start with the death toll now:
    X Freedom of speech
    X Freedom of press
    X Comedy

    Make your prediction, if the thread and the forums survive, I'll come back to the thread in 5-10 years and see who's correct. What is the next victim of Political Correctness and its new totalitarian incarnation, Social Justice?

    Considering that the youth is obviously the future, how illiberal do you think the West is going to be when those people take over?
    Those who denounced the problem a decade ago were branded as ''reactionary''. However, as more people from all fields denounced it, it is getting worse.
    Are you ready for a 1984 Western society where anything, fact, opinion, joke that might paint someone in a negative light and thus offend him will be censored?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    I welcome this. The more stupid liberal left does, the more it is discredited in the eyes of general population, which will cause an inevitable political change. I hope they'll push their agenda more in all forms of social life, to annoy the crap out of as many people as possible.
    The best way to defeat liberal left ... is to let them speak out.

  3. #3
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    And then people end up backing neocons and other bad things happen. It's just the way of life. Pushing this way then that way.

    I am conservative and I don't feel too much threatened. Why? Because after I turned 20 or so, I started becoming more and more progressive. Until I recently found myself moving towards my former, more conservative views.
    And it's not just me; many people I know return slowly to more conservative views. My generation (generation X) stack with the internet, we learned about a lot of people, broadened our horizons and now we're recovering from the initial shock and mold something new out of our 1990 views and our 2010 views.
    Last edited by alhoon; February 01, 2016 at 11:47 PM.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Man has opinion. Is not censored. Can't see point of the thread.

    I mean... you didn't think about making this thread for a second did you? Suggesting we're in some "Orwellian nightmare" because John Cleese chooses not to perform on US college campuses, and then saying something so unaware as using South Park, one of TV's most successful, popular and long running comedy series as an example for this, when you know they've just run a whole series, an entire series based on lampooning this attitude? I mean... have you read any Orwell? Have you seen any South Park?
    Last edited by removeduser_487563287433; February 02, 2016 at 02:01 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Yep, South Park is actually full spot on on this one, just like they were a decade ago with the 2 ''Cartoon Wars'' episodes. Note that in those episodes Cartman schemes to have the Mohammed episode of Family Guy pulled, so that if censorship wins for the feelings of Muslims, then other people will demand the same, something that he hopes to exploit so that he's not made fun for being called fat any longer.
    It was 2006. Prophetic.
    Indeed South Park episode ''201'' of 2010 was censored heavily because of Mohammed's appearance. Fast forward 5 years, the evolution of political correctness that is social justice now demands censorship of everything that might hurt someone's feelings. From Vagina Monologues to comedy.
    Since creators are certainly aware of these social trends they run the latest season criticizing this movement, which can be summed up when the handicapped kid Jimmy calls it ''PC principal's retarded policy''.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Man has opinion. Is not censored. Can't see point of the thread.

    I mean... you didn't think about making this thread for a second did you? Suggesting we're in some "Orwellian nightmare" because John Cleese chooses not to perform on US college campuses, and then saying something so unaware as using South Park, one of TV's most successful, popular and long running comedy series as an example for this, when you know they've just run a whole series, an entire series based on lampooning this attitude? I mean... have you read any Orwell? Have you seen any South Park?
    Have you? South Park was mentioned for a reason. They had an episode where they parodied Muhammad, and it was censored.

    @ OP: Personally I think this social justice and political correctness thing is caused by a decrease in testosterone levels. I have no idea what caused it but it seems that people nowadays are incredibly effeminate and totally unable to handle any hint of struggle. "If it feels good, do it. If it feels bad, ban it." That's how children think. I say you just ignore these people.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    @ OP: Personally I think this social justice and political correctness thing is caused by a decrease in testosterone levels. I have no idea what caused it but it seems that people nowadays are incredibly effeminate and totally unable to handle any hint of struggle. "If it feels good, do it. If it feels bad, ban it." That's how children think. I say you just ignore these people.
    I am not sure about the cause, though I don't think that ignoring the problem would make it go away. These people found mentorship in the academia by those radical ''hippies'' that now reside on social science deparments; they are their heirs. If we allow them to spread and poison even further the field of knowledge then we might as well shut down universities.
    If debate is censored because someone might get hurt, if facts are covered up, if knowledge becomes ignorance then we are truly on the rails for a full Orwell dystopia.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    Have you? South Park was mentioned for a reason. They had an episode where they parodied Muhammad, and it was censored.

    @ OP: Personally I think this social justice and political correctness thing is caused by a decrease in testosterone levels. I have no idea what caused it but it seems that people nowadays are incredibly effeminate and totally unable to handle any hint of struggle. "If it feels good, do it. If it feels bad, ban it." That's how children think. I say you just ignore these people.
    For very different reasons to what Basil is trying to discuss with Cleese's mention of campus safe spaces.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Lol no. South Park was censored because some Muslims got so upset that they sent bomb threats to Comedy Central.
    Censorship won.
    And now people are threatening hunger strikes to have even more censorship.
    Freedom of speech is being compromised by hypersensitive individuals willing to resort threats.

    In a way, their threats remind of your posts attempting to bully opinions you do not like. At least those are largely unsuccessful though and laughed as asinine as they are.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; February 02, 2016 at 03:50 AM.

  10. #10
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Legend View Post
    I have no idea what caused it but it seems that people nowadays are incredibly effeminate and totally unable to handle any hint of struggle. "If it feels good, do it. If it feels bad, ban it." That's how children think. I say you just ignore these people.
    For the gendered stereotypes being stripped away, I think that's a win all round, no longer do people have to pretend to conform to their gender stereotype due to societal pressure. That is an ideal liberal state of affairs to the benefit of everyone.
    As to the childish censor-addicts, well, unfortunately we can't ignore them, they have an undue level of political and social power, which is quite scary, an all encompassing hegemony that cannot be escaped except by suicide.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Lol no. South Park was censored because some Muslims got so upset that they sent bomb threats to Comedy Central.
    Censorship won.
    And now people are threatening hunger strikes to have even more censorship.
    Again - people have an opinion. But nobody has censored anything over campus politics in the media. Some Orwellian nightmare. No rats eating eyeballs or anything.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?



    Even prominent leftist such as Slavoj Žižek says that PC is "an artificial cover enforced by totalitarian social pressures". That it doesnt help resovle anything and is harming a process of understaning between different groups in societies.

    http://bigthink.com/think-tank/why-p...in-its-own-way
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  13. #13
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    The OP is more than a bit hyperbolic in terms of having entered an Orwellian nightmare. However, the whole "safe space" phenomenon is rightly being criticized from the left and right, and especially by South Park (as mentioned above), who've had their history of having material censored on Comedy Central by the decisions handed down by parent corp Viacom. Colleges are where we go to learn critical facts about the world and our future careers, not where we go to shield ourselves from the outside world. If people wanted to do that they could continue living blissfully in their parents' basement. "Safe spaces" engineer an absurd alternate reality, if anything, which is harmful to individuals who are going to have to face stark realities sooner or later anyway.

    I suppose I should thank the OP regardless for pointing out John Cleese's decision not to perform on college campuses. I certainly didn't know about that, or the fact that any organization had banned the Vagina Monologues. Lol. How the hell is that harmful to anyone, even transgendered people? That would be akin to banning classic novels like To Kill a Mockingbird because it doesn't feature any Hispanics/Latinos, who are now a much larger percentage of the US population. Go and find me one transgender person who is offended by the Vagina Monologues exclusion of transgendered topics, and then I'll agree to show you the tropical island where Kurt Cobain and 2Pac are still alive and well.

  14. #14
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanest View Post

    Even prominent leftist such as Slavoj Žižek says that PC is "an artificial cover enforced by totalitarian social pressures". That it doesnt help resovle anything and is harming a process of understaning between different groups in societies.
    Fantastic link, everyone should watch the video.



    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    The OP is more than a bit hyperbolic in terms of having entered an Orwellian nightmare.
    ...
    I think what John Cleese meant is that by means of political correctness we are building the Orwellian totalitarian state where peaple can be punished for crimes of thought.
    That does not need to be a legal/judicial punishment but if you are shunned for speaking spontaneously it's punishment none the less.

    Political correctness does not solve the problem of racism.
    It simply conceals it by "lubricating" it's rougher facets.
    It addresses the symptoms and numbs our better senses to the existence of the disease.
    Ultimately it becomes a desease itself.
    Like trying to treat cancer with opioids: the pain becomes less intense but the cancer gets you in the end just the same.
    Last edited by paleologos; February 02, 2016 at 07:38 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    I am not sure about the cause, though I don't think that ignoring the problem would make it go away. These people found mentorship in the academia by those radical ''hippies'' that now reside on social science deparments; they are their heirs. If we allow them to spread and poison even further the field of knowledge then we might as well shut down universities.
    If debate is censored because someone might get hurt, if facts are covered up, if knowledge becomes ignorance then we are truly on the rails for a full Orwell dystopia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    For the gendered stereotypes being stripped away, I think that's a win all round, no longer do people have to pretend to conform to their gender stereotype due to societal pressure. That is an ideal liberal state of affairs to the benefit of everyone.
    As to the childish censor-addicts, well, unfortunately we can't ignore them, they have an undue level of political and social power, which is quite scary, an all encompassing hegemony that cannot be escaped except by suicide.
    I think the reason it plagues society is precisely because it isn't ignored. The people complaining about problematic and offensive speech are basically children. A simple "No" is all you need to say.

    From my experience I have noticed that most SJWs don't actually believe the things they say. They are very insane in public but rational and traditionalist in private, especially women. It's like an act to them. Much like how people on the Internet are genocidal Nazis but in real life are as peaceful and friendly as anyone.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Don't lump the self-censorship of depictions of Mohammad in with social justice warriors.

    The reason they avoided like the plague by media outlets is out of fear of their staff being murdered by jihadists. Which is something quite different from what Cleese is talking about.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    Don't lump the self-censorship of depictions of Mohammad in with social justice warriors.

    The reason they avoided like the plague by media outlets is out of fear of their staff being murdered by jihadists. Which is something quite different from what Cleese is talking about.
    Nah, hypersensitive Muslims sent death threats. Do we really want to wait that Social Justice Warriors start sending death threats to someone because they feel offended? I think they have already gone far enough with their demands.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    The OP is more than a bit hyperbolic in terms of having entered an Orwellian nightmare.
    Being the whole movement seems to be driven by Marxist thought, using oppression as justification, I don't think as a possibility, thats too far off base. This is also why there is no real justice in social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Nah, hypersensitive Muslims sent death threats. Do we really want to wait that Social Justice Warriors start sending death threats to someone because they feel offended? I think they have already gone far enough with their demands.
    They already have, but the difference is no one takes them really seriously. The SJW death threat is like the kid on Xbox live.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Nah, hypersensitive Muslims sent death threats
    No. Not threats, actual murders.

    They genuinely fear becoming the next Charlie Hebdo. That is far from fearing a "twitter-storm" caused by college students with too much time on their hands.

    I think most people can understand that difference. But we should recognize that the first type of cowardice is actually worse.
    Last edited by Sphere; February 02, 2016 at 12:25 PM.

  20. #20
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Political Correctness next victim: Comedy. Towards a Orwellian nightmare?

    Great example of groups abusing power.

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