Extended Map 1.12 for Alternative Patch 4.8

[euskingc]

I'm not so quick to assume it's something you've done wrong, just keeping my mind open to every conceivable possibility. It's entirely conceivable I made a mistake somewhere, especially if the camera is moving independently every single time it crashes (it could be an unlikely coincidence, or it could mean the crash is related to the campaign_script). But I really don't have enough information to start narrowing down the possibilities. As holmes says, i can't make bricks without clay. Need data =)

And you know, sometimes the engine itself is responsible for unpredictable results. I've discovered several quirks and hardcoded limitations during the course of this project that not many people still around seemed to know about. This could theoretically be something new and unforeseen.


The console command isn't advice per se. It is not intended as a direct solution to your problem. It's intended to give you access to information you wouldnt otherwise have access to, so that you can pass this information to me, so that I can start narrowing down the possible sources of the crash =)
The result of the command is that it lifts the fog of war for the human player. Youll be able to see the entire map and all the armies and agents upon it. Omniscience, basically.

And yes you can turn it off again just as easily by inputting the command again. If I wasn't entirely clear, you access the command console screen when the game is running.

As I said, it might not be the problem, but knowing exactly where the camera is moving seems to be the most reasonable place to begin.

The spies around dol goldur wouldnt be related to the entwives script. They are found in a random province in the very far east or very far south of the map. Sorry for the spoiler =)

[Patrice]

yeah cool spoil haha this will be great again when it happens - I've kept the saves folder for the next set up, I'll paste the group of lines about the trigger sorcerer bug.
Anyhow I've changed my pc config entirely so I was not really surprised to see so many freezes and CTDs since then. I know I can play hundreds of turns with your scripts and map, too bad for the current game if it doesn't allow any next turn. I'll try the sub-mod with every faction after the set up on Steam so I'll see later on how long I can play and what may happen meanwhile. I won't monopolize your attention any longer about only one bag-end.
Looking for the trigger part in this file - pretty long stuff

[Patrice]

Third age is now installing on Steam - the good thing is, whenever several manips have been done and you want a clean version again, you just have to use the Steam's files tool then it quickly brings back a default set up. Will spend most of my funtime with the sub-mod for the next few weeks.

LOL I typed the toggle_fow command - no way I'd do it while in the game, that is a lot of spoil haha
I'd rather push several games with factions for several hundreds of turns and see how it goes - still, I want my candy as a player so I don't want to see everything under the light.

[Patrice]

Here it is at last - Levels 1 and 2

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Trigger Sorcerer_Level_One
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsGeneral
and not Trait NoTraits > 0
and not CharFactionType slave ;See *Note 5*
and not Trait Ents > 0
and not Trait GiantSpider > 0
and not Trait Hobbit > 0
and CharacterReligion catholic
and TimeInRegion >= 4
and PopulationOwnReligion >= 80
and not AtSea
and EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists >= small_church
and Attribute Command >= 3
and Attribute Piety >= 3
and Attribute Chivalry <= -3
and not Trait Sorcerer >= 1

Affects Sorcerer 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Sorcerer_Level_Two
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsGeneral
and not Trait NoTraits > 0
and not CharFactionType slave ;See *Note 5*
and not Trait Ents > 0
and not Trait GiantSpider > 0
and not Trait Hobbit > 0
and not Trait MistyMountainOrc > 0
and not Trait MoriaOrc > 0
and not Trait GundabadOrc > 0
and not Trait AngmarOrc > 0
and not Trait GramOrc > 0
and not Trait GreyMountainOrc > 0
and not Trait ForodwaithOrc > 0
and not Trait UrukHai > 0
and not Trait BlackUruk > 0
and not Trait MordorOrc > 0
and not Trait OrocarniOrc > 0
and not Trait EredHarmalOrc > 0
and not Trait BarlSyrnacOrc > 0
and not Trait UtumnoOrc > 0
and not Trait TolFuinOrc > 0
and not Trait YellowMountainOrc > 0
and not Trait Snaga > 0
and not Trait HalfTroll > 0
and not Trait Troll > 0
and not Trait OlogHai > 0
and CharacterReligion catholic
and TimeInRegion >= 8
and PopulationOwnReligion >= 85
and not AtSea
and EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists >= church
and Attribute Command >= 5
and Attribute Piety >= 5
and Attribute Chivalry <= -5
and not Trait Sorcerer >= 2

Affects Sorcerer 1 Chance 3

I have left the default set up in the new installation so I could see the CPU moves - plus, the toggle_fow to see the places - on the Orocarni's turn, the camera goes onto the city called 'Angsmar-Morthock' or something in the style, south-east in the Orocarni moutains. Mordor is alright and Sauron is freezing by the village of Forodwaith. (I had already found him there while in a FRoGS game.) I've too many parts of the map already, that's why I only looked at it for 15 seconds only.
I hope you could find something to do so I'll be able to continue the game.

[euskingc]

Here's my working theory on the sorcerer trait thing. I suspect it's totally harmless, especially considering it showed up several times in the log at large intervals and didnt seem to crash the program.
I SUSPECT if you move the line that says "

and PopulationOwnReligion >= 80" to below the line that says "

and EndedInSettlement", that it wont create complaints in your log file anymore, but again I dont think its creating any serious issues you need to worry about at this time.

On another note... spoiler tags. I noticed Veteraan keeps editing your posts to add spoiler tags around sections of code to shorten your posts so... probably best in future to do that so Veteraan doesnt have to... we don't want to start getting on their nerves =)
I dont actually remember i think its like... [ follwed by SPOILER followed by ]
and then to close the section you use [/ followed by SPOILER followed by ]

Thanks for taking the time to find out where the camera is moving to. It helps me rule out a lot of problems that it might have been.

unfortunately I'm still not entirely sure what it actually is. I'm racking my brain trying to remember what script is moving the camera there and why, and the only thing i can think of is the entwives script.... but that only fires if you have a unit or treebeard or a spy or something in the region where the entwives are... and it did pass testing...
so at this moment I really have no idea whatsoever =/ =/
And I know that totally sucks after getting a few hundred turns invested into a game so i wont give up trying to figure it out! Although if it is a campaign script issue changes to it arent save game compatible... so it might not be able to fix it so you can keep playing it anyways...

And its even stranger that it is moving there during the AI turn because generally any move camera commands ive scripted happen at the very beginning of the players turn.

[Veteraan]

On another note... spoiler tags. I noticed Veteraan keeps editing your posts to add spoiler tags around sections of code to shorten your posts so... probably best in future to do that so Veteraan doesnt have to... we don't want to start getting on their nerves =)
I dont actually remember i think its like... [ follwed by SPOILER followed by ]
and then to close the section you use [/ followed by SPOILER followed by ]

My nerves are at breaking point!!!

I have been editing both yours and Patrice's post quite often. There are two reasons for this. Posting long texts, like (part of) logs and consecutive posting within a very short time.

For the first add spoilers. There are two ways to do this:

- Click on "Go Advanced" at the lower right corner or your screen. Then select the text, pictures or whatever you think needs a spoiler and then click on the ! which is in a red square and can be found on the third row of the options above your post.

- Do it manually, which would look like this:

[SPOILER]Any large text, pictures or other things you think can use spoilers[/SPOILER]

For the second issue, edit your previous post instead of adding another one within a short time. If somebody else already has replied to the tread, it's always better to make a new post though.

Editing posts can only be done if you have at least 25 posts and have been a member for at least a week. This mean euskingc can already edit posts and Patrice will probably be able to do so in the near future.


For more info about this stuff and a lot of other useful titbits, I would recommend Shankbots Unofficial Guide for new members. In my experience it's often pretty useful for"older members" also.

[Patrice]

Sorry Veteraan I should have read a few things before posting because I didn't use the forum for a few years - Now I know I was a LOL sorry. Ok about the spoilers method.

Thank you euskingc, I'll try this or start a new game, this kind of dead end already happened to me dozens of time with good mods.
I've started a campaing with the new Divide and Conquer opus, it's a great one. I'll be back on yours thereafter.
Have a nice week-end guys.

[Patrice]

No, nothing can work anymore about this now I guess - only a save at 10 turns or so before this happens could have helped I guess. This is sunday, 6 AM down here. I have left Balin and the Khazad-Dùm dwarves a few turns before the balrog reveals himself in D&C 2.1, I am starting a new game with Eriador in Extended Map 1.12 again. The same strategy I've been using because it was a great game, now I'll pay attention around the 430th turn to the 460th, let's see whether the same kind of bugs occurs again or not.
(euskingc: maybe you should erase our personal talks if you can, only bugs and technical solutions can help other folks and I didn't mean to be a nuisance for moderators. See you later about another bug, this time my config will be better.)

[euskingc]

For the second issue, edit your previous post instead of adding another one within a short time. If somebody else already has replied to the tread, it's always better to make a new post though.

Yikes, sorry about that boss! I've been treating them like paragraphs... in no small part because it logs me out automatically every half hour-ish or so. But rest assured, I will do my best to comply =)
On that note, does anyone happen to know, is there any way to make it not do that? The auto-log out thing I mean.

Patrice, a recommendation that you're already on to... have backup saves ever 20-30 turns or so, so you can jump back 20, or 40, or 60 or whatever amount of turns if necessary.
I'm not really worried about the content of your questions, it's not like many others ever posts in this thread anyways =)
And besides, I don't have the ability (that i know of) to remove any of them anyways.

Veteraan, if I do anything else to irritate even slightly, don't ever hesitate to pm me and I will cease and desist at once. I'll read through your posted link now.

[Patrice]

Yeah I should have kept more saves - well it's been maybe 6 years since I haven't asked questions or discussed with anyone on this forum, I'm surprised that no more people gave a go to this sub-mod because it's excellent (I have even read its specificities regarding a couple of others I loved.) Thank you for your kindness to me - when I'm a bit experienced with ZBrush and Maya I'll come back and show you some stuff. Until then, I was pleased to discuss with you. I'm playing your thing and I'm having fun.
A plus tard, mon pote.

[♔atthias♔]

Yikes, sorry about that boss! I've been treating them like paragraphs... in no small part because it logs me out automatically every half hour-ish or so. But rest assured, I will do my best to comply =)
On that note, does anyone happen to know, is there any way to make it not do that? The auto-log out thing I mean.

Patrice, a recommendation that you're already on to... have backup saves ever 20-30 turns or so, so you can jump back 20, or 40, or 60 or whatever amount of turns if necessary.
I'm not really worried about the content of your questions, it's not like many others ever posts in this thread anyways =)
And besides, I don't have the ability (that i know of) to remove any of them anyways.

Veteraan, if I do anything else to irritate even slightly, don't ever hesitate to pm me and I will cease and desist at once. I'll read through your posted link now.

click the remember me button to prevent getting logged out randomly if you are not doing so already
if you are and still have this problem go here for help http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...mp-Suggestions

[Patrice]

Arnor,Very hard mode, 307th turn. Great game, while a quite different scenario with the previous game - I love it.
Same ctd again when the AI's turn makes the camera move to the Orocarni city, then occurs while the 'Bandits' faction turn.
The system log only reads the classic mounted pack packs/data_0.pack (1,2,3,4) and nothing else.
I've read this in the known bugs chapter:
-Sporadic crashes on slave turn seemingly related to many EDCT triggers, typically beginning about 12-30 turns in. Temporary fix was to exclude slave faction from entire sections of EDCT triggers. Of course this means slave generals no longer acquire many traits, which is unfortunate.


I don't know whether 'slave' means bandits and rebels, the last faction when my games stop because of an 'unknown error.'
Since this happened with Arnor and Orocarni games I think it will happen with any other played faction so I won't start another game.
I've tried to change some values in the cfg file but it keeps crashing, I won't go further but I keep the save in case of a future patch maybe.

[Patrice]

Good game with the sylvan elves/460th turn, only standard Ctds mostly while in battle versus several armies or with the battle aftermath panel so far.
Now exploring the far east and planning spring holidays in the ruins of Utumno while an army holds the one ring on the sides of Mount Doom.
I'll be playing it as long as I don't meet dead end issues like in the previous ones.

Everything working fine until the 496th turn when I have to grant one of my generals the damned ring of the Blaylocks dwarves, the same one that stopped my game with the Orocarnis.
There must be something to do with this script I guess.

[euskingc]

I'm surprised that no more people gave a go to this sub-mod because it's excellent

It's not exactly packaged to sell in the first post, there are still more issues with it than I'd like to admit, and the forums are pretty quiet these days, at least compared to days of yore.

I'm glad you're enjoying it though!

click the remember me button to prevent getting logged out randomly if you are not doing so already
if you are and still have this problem go here for help http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...mp-Suggestions

Thanks a ton for that, I'll definitely get in touch with them next time it irritates me grievously :p

Same ctd again when the AI's turn makes the camera move to the Orocarni city, then occurs while the 'Bandits' faction turn.
The system log only reads the classic mounted pack packs/data_0.pack (1,2,3,4) and nothing else.
I've read this in the known bugs chapter:
-Sporadic crashes on slave turn seemingly related to many EDCT triggers, typically beginning about 12-30 turns in. Temporary fix was to exclude slave faction from entire sections of EDCT triggers. Of course this means slave generals no longer acquire many traits, which is unfortunate.

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure it out, and I confess I'm at a dead end about it. The fact that the camera is panning to the location suggests to me a problem in the campaign script, but i cant find anything that makes the camera pan to that location, nor do i remember writing anything to make it pan there... so I really have no idea. I havent been able to reproduce the crash either.

As far as excluded the slaves from EDCT triggers, it's already done. It was an issue I ran into as well, early on in development.

I don't know whether 'slave' means bandits and rebels, the last faction when my games stop because of an 'unknown error.'
Since this happened with Arnor and Orocarni games I think it will happen with any other played faction so I won't start another game.
I've tried to change some values in the cfg file but it keeps crashing, I won't go further but I keep the save in case of a future patch maybe.

It's probably nothing to do with the cfg file...
Slaves, bandits, rebels... I can never remember which they are properly called in this incarnation of total war =) =)
But yes, the same thing.

Everything working fine until the 496th turn when I have to grant one of my generals the damned ring of the Blaylocks dwarves, the same one that stopped my game with the Orocarnis.
There must be something to do with this script I guess.

Is it always the blacklock ring?

There might be a work around so you can keep playing.
-Load the saved game before the crash, the turn before you assign the dwarf ring.
-Open up the console command again with the ~/` key
-Type in: give_ancillary "charactername" blacklock_ring
(note that you have to replace charactername with the name of the character you want to give the ring to. note it might not work if there are multiple characters on the map with the same name, or rather, the ancillary might be given to the wrong character. note it also wont work if the character has 8 ancillaries already, as 8 is the max number they can have.)
-hit enter
-Close the console command screen by pressing the ~/` key again.
-end your turn

I cant guarantee it'll work, I'm just hoping that if the ring is already assigned it wont ask you to assign it the next turn. Note that some mechanics wont work properly if you do this, but at least you'll get to keep playing your campaign.

Can i ask for more information about this specific crash?
Does it crash the moment you select a general to give the ring to?
Does the general have 8 ancillaries already?
Is there any indication of the problem in the logs?
Is it always the Blacklock ring? Or any Dwarf Ring?
Have you had to assign any other dwarf rings, or just the blacklock one?

It could be as simple as a typo in one of the files.

[Veteraan]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure it out, and I confess I'm at a dead end about it. The fact that the camera is panning to the location suggests to me a problem in the campaign script, but i cant find anything that makes the camera pan to that location, nor do i remember writing anything to make it pan there... so I really have no idea. I havent been able to reproduce the crash either.

This is a tip for people dealing with problems that are difficult to explain, or to reproduce.

If you have it, provide a save of the game from just before the problem manifests itself. Other people, e.g. the developers but others too, can then try your game and see what happens for themselves.

You can attach a saved game to a post, see HERE (suggestion 18) on how to do that. Note that you have to zip or rar a saved game first, before trying to attach it. .sav files cannot be attached.

Alternatively, you can use a File hosting site like MEGA for instance.

[Fresco]

I arrived at the 80th turn, I built the most advanced military buildings, but I still do not see the most advanced units, like Fountain Guard,etc...

[euskingc]

If you have it, provide a save of the game from just before the problem manifests itself. Other people, e.g. the developers but others too, can then try your game and see what happens for themselves.
You can attach a saved game to a post, see HERE (suggestion 18) on how to do that. Note that you have to zip or rar a saved game first, before trying to attach it. .sav files cannot be attached.

I didn't realize the site supported that. That's super useful. By all means, Patrice, if you have the save files preceeding the crashes still, send them over.

I arrived at the 80th turn, I built the most advanced military buildings, but I still do not see the most advanced units, like Fountain Guard,etc...

For advanced military units, the barracks/ranges/stables arent sufficient. You also need to develop your smithies to craft the armour/weapons they use.
Building info panels should display what is required for each unit type.

[Fresco]

I didn't realize the site supported that. That's super useful. By all means, Patrice, if you have the save files preceeding the crashes still, send them over.




For advanced military units, the barracks/ranges/stables arent sufficient. You also need to develop your smithies to craft the armour/weapons they use.
Building info panels should display what is required for each unit type.

I've already builded Armour,etc...!

[euskingc]

I've already builded Armour,etc...!

For units that are only available in certain areas, such as Fountain Guards, right click on the Middle Earth Atlas building for details (I know that isn't what it's named, but it's usually the first building in the building panel, giving details about the region).

For Fountain Guard it says you must have 85% Dunedain culture, a Royal Armory, and a Plate Armourer, and they are only available in Minas Tirith (if memory serves me).

You'll notice that Minas Tirith only begins with 80% Dunedain Culture (although it should be higher, I agree), so if you havent destroyed the library, it should be at about 85% by turn 10.

If you've done all this and you still don't see them as a recruitment option, reinstall and try again. I just checked on my copy and I can definitely recruit Fountain Guards in Minas Tirith once all the building and culture requirements are in place.

[Patrice]

Hello, thank you for your reply.
The command for granting the Blaylock dwarves ring worked and the general inside Azanubizar-Dum got it - but after that I can't select any army outside a city without getting a CTD and I can't pass the next AI's turn. I join this game here and another save with Arnor, while the shifting camera goes toward the Orocarni settlements and a Crash occurs at the end of the AI's turn.