Extended Map 1.12 for Alternative Patch 4.8

[euskingc]

My game has crashed while I was playing as Gondor. In the log, it shows that a lot of files are either missing or not there. I don't understand.

Did you install the mod over a clean version of TATW 3.2?
The files the log indicated are from TATW 3.2, not from the Extended Map mod... did the game crash as soon as you tried to start it?

[euskingc]

It might be this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post11004048

I'll try giving that a go. Thanks boss =)

[Manitizer]

I'm assuming this won't work with 4.9? I just found out about these mods today, and then it gets updated to 4.9 on the 13th.

[Khevsur]

Today's version is alternative patch 4.9

May be installed?

[euskingc]

With the current version of EM it isn't necessary to pre-install the alternative patch first (it's already precombined). Just download EM, and it goes right over a clean install of Third Age 3.2

[Patrice]

Hello, I installed the mod successfully but I experiment crashes crashes every 10/15 turns. Maybe my graphic drivers and the options are involved, I have to start several campaings and see I guess. My hotseat campaign is going fine except battles are default automatic when I'm besieged so I can't defend my cities. I started a campaign with the Orocarni dwarves which went fine until I have the script about a general I have to chose and give him a Sauron ring, around the 120th turn. Then the game crashes as soon as I select a general. I'll go further with the hotseat party as long as the mod allows me to continue. I'm persistent because I love it but too many crashes will discourage me to use it I guess. I'll try other parties and tell you how it went.

[Veteraan]

Hello, I installed the mod successfully but I experiment crashes crashes every 10/15 turns. Maybe my graphic drivers and the options are involved, I have to start several campaings and see I guess. My hotseat campaign is going fine except battles are default automatic when I'm besieged so I can't defend my cities. I started a campaign with the Orocarni dwarves which went fine until I have the script about a general I have to chose and give him a Sauron ring, around the 120th turn. Then the game crashes as soon as I select a general. I'll go further with the hotseat party as long as the mod allows me to continue. I'm persistent because I love it but too many crashes will discourage me to use it I guess. I'll try other parties and tell you how it went.

Welcome to the TWC forums. Patrice.

Are you really playing with the Extended map 1.12 for the Alternative Patch 4.8, or are you perhaps playing a standard version of the Alternative Patch?

[Patrice]

Yes the Ext.Map 1.12, I already know the alternative patch by Leo - well since I have installed Windows 10 I've had graphic issues with heavy mods; I can't play Divide and Conquer either. I have to see whether the mods work better with the 64-bit version maybe. I reunited the kingdom of Arnor in the hotseat party and it goes fine, repeated crashes occur when I hear the system running faster. The mod won't let me defend my cities or defending against attacks in the open land while on Ai's turn.The map and the scripts are cool, I'll spend more time on this mod. I'll try with smaller units size and see if the game behaves the same way.
(This is my first post with this account but I regularly come on your forums down here since 7 or 8 years, I play the TW games since the beginning. I don't do modding myself but I played with many mods around. I do my best at following the instructions carefully. I try to take the best of them. )

[Veteraan]

I asked because this submod (extended map 1.12) is specifically made for the Alternative patch 4.8, which is not the most recent version, by the way. It's a bit difficult to help solving problems when it is not exactly clear which submod(s) and versions are being used.

However, since you cant't play DaC either and I assume that you did not install both submods incorrectly, it does seem that you indeed may have a Hardware/Windows problem. Can you play TATW itself without problems?

[Patrice]

The weird thing with D&C is that I can play historical battles but the game will crash every time while showing the campaign map at the beginning of a new game.
Yet I could play wit Alreadydead's heavy mods (not with too many creatures in battles though.)
I'll try to reinstall the vanilla game, now I think there have been graphic issues since the day when I installed Windows 10 32-bit. (I use a Wacom tablet plus 2 screens so conflicts may occur because of the options of the graphic panel I have with the driver - It's always desperating to install the whole stuff again but adventures and warfare are worth it I guess.)
I like Leo's maps but this mod is more creative and immersive to me. I have to see more of it.
I'll install a clean version again. Thank you for your answer, cheers Boss.

[euskingc]

First of all, thanks for the kind words about the mod.


If you're playing it hotseat, I'm not one bit surprised that it is crashing. I'll put up a warning on the main post under the installation instructions or something.

The scripts were designed for single-player only. Even if you don't experience crashes I can think of several places where the scripts would malfunction, and not create the intended results.

I really wish that wasnt the case, but there are hardcoded limitations to what can and can't be scripted, and even with regards to what was possible, i often had to find creative, roundabout ways of making it do what i wanted. I'm sure there are sections of script that are thousands of lines (or more) that could have been written in a few hundred lines instead, if it were legal to modify and distribute the source code. When you try to force a game to do something it wasn't designed to do, you're essentially fitting a square peg in a round hole.

This isn't to say this is the only problem... without seeing the logs I can't begin to properly troubleshoot, and there may be additional issues specific to your computer. But I can tell you that aside from what is indicated under 'Known and Unresolved Issues', when I run the mod in single player, I don't experience any more crashes than I do playing TATW 3.2.

As a first step I'd say try running it in single player, and see if you experience the same problems.
If that is indeed the only issue, then if you know (or learn) enough about modding, you can of course remove the features that prevent it from being hot-seat friendly, but don't expect that to be a quick project, unless you are very experienced.


With regards to installation and version compatibility, the installation instructions under the download heading on the first post are accurate, and I have mentioned several times throughout the thread that downloading and installing AP 4.8 before EM 1.12 is not necessary. But if I've had to clarify several times and folks are still unclear, I see that I need to indicate this on the first post with more emphasis and clarity. So, rest assured, I'll put up a big flashing neon sign forthwith =)


In the meantime, to clarify once again, yes this is a submod of Alternative Patch 4.8, because that was indeed the base I used for Extended Map, but for ease of distribution, installation, and to avoid compatibility issues as AP continued to be upgraded with newer versions, I was very graciously given permission by Alternative Patch's creator to pre-combine AP 4.8 and EM for distribution.

[euskingc]

Veteraan, I really, really appreciate you trying to help folks to resolve issues with this mod, as I'm not exactly prompt in doing so myself. I dont check in here as much as I should.

[Veteraan]

Thank you. I help where I can, even more so since I became a local moderator for the TATW forum. Still, my esteemed colleague Elvenkind is much more knowledgeable about these matters.

I should have read your OP though, I did not expect that The AP 4.8 would be included in your install file. Quite gracious of Leo to allow that.

[euskingc]

It's a longwinded OP, so I don't blame anyone for missing it... Anyways, I've increased the visibility of the information in question, so hopefully that helps to prevent further issues for folks.

And yes, I'm unendingly grateful to leo.civil.uefs for his generosity. It makes everything so much simpler.

[Patrice]

Hello euskingc, thank you for your explanations - I found it quite clear that you don't need AP for the mod, it's already in the instructions I think everyone can get it.
Well I used a small software to find / uninstall old drivers,put off the graphic card to let the one on the motherboard manage the stuff and that's way better, yet crashes still occur.
I'll post a system log file if I can't find a way to fix them (it happens mainly while a battle is over, the battle screen is alright then swithch on the campaign map and it crashes while I use the button panel to confirm after I ransom/release/kill the hostages. This may happen with any siege; I got the reunited Arnor and Isengard / Angrenost is surrounded, I can't valid any battle at the end. I have the disc version and my Sega file is on a different partition than the system file and the whole Sega file is outside Program files. The vanilla version works well as long as I test it. I think it's about the graphic settings because of the way crashes appear - tonight I'm going to play on a smaller screen, not the 16/9, just to see the difference between the campaign / battle maps. I think the mod is alright, the issues come from my own system.)
Too bad about the hotseat, I think I had read that the autosave mode had to be put at 0 value in the Config file.
I'm glad I've tried your mod, I have good time so far - even on Very Hard mode I find the evil factions quite weak but I have to reach about 500/600 turns before I can say whether the mod gets boring or too repetitive.
Anyway it is interesting, yes you have been creative with this mod, thank you for the fun. I'm going to read some threads again and try to learn more about my bugs.

[Patrice]

I found that old drivers I couldn't identify wouldn't let the game running normally - then I still had some crashes when the screens were changing after a battle or during the AI's turns. I played several turns on a smaller monitor with the screen resolution at 1024x768, it runs smooth and gently and I can see all the fluidity of the moves and vegatation in battles, no crashes, perfect.
On the wide screen monitor I use 1920x1080 as a resolution, this is what I put in the video settings of Third Age while it recommends a 1024x768 for both campaign and batlle maps, which is not satisfying when the monitor shows it up (plus, the Windows 10 advisor app keeps notifying it to me every time, I have to put that off.)
I think that Windows 10 does not know how to choose the good resolution since I have installed it, I had never met this issue before. When the game is loading its different screens, it does not know which resolution is the right one, that's why I see when the screens freeze or show artefacts then crash.

*that's what I see

[Patrice]

System cleansing/Drivers update/Windows tool to fix system errors/Registry defragmentation/Reboot/New shortcut (Run as administrator in advanced properties)/changing the authorizations of the MIITW folder because of the Windows 10 quirks. Done.
Here we go. My army of hobbits,arnorian marines and dùnedain rangers are rushing to the Isen shores. Barrow Downs has been cleansed, no more wraiths there and Gundabad is about to fall.
I delay the military progress as long as I can because hobbits have to rise again, along with the dwarven mercenaries. Then Aragorn can be crowned in Gondor and the horse folks of Eotheod will ride East with us through the wastelands, as we should.
This mod is great because it allows new scenarios and adventures. I'll try a hotseat again later on though, otherwise I'll have to play a new game with each different faction.
I have great Paradox games to explore, yet I'm stuck with the TATW submods again.
See ya

[euskingc]

The crash you've described, where there is a crash the moment you decide what to do with the hostages... that sounds like it could be an issue with the either the ancillary triggers or the character trait triggers. I haven't tinkered with the mod in over several months, so my gut feeling could be off, but it seems like a familiar issue.

If that is the case, it's absolutely my fault, because i rewrote both files (EDA and EDCT) from top to bottom, and they're far more complex than what vanilla ever was. Logs might shed some light on the issue.


I do remember also some inherited crashes during battles, particularly where critters like spiders are involved, but that doesn't seem to be what you're describing. I don't know anything about modelling or animation so that's beyond my abilities to rectify, and is native to vanilla anyways.

The config file isn't the issue with hotseat, it's actually the campaign_script. Due to hardcoded limitations to what can and cant be scripted (and how), I had to choose between making it single-player only, or cutting out a good portion of the events. If I remember correctly, even vanilla TATW campaign scripts do not work as intended when playing multiplayer, though they dont necessarily cause a crash (the events just dont function they way the designers intended them to).
It is a shame, because I'd have enjoyed playing all the free peoples at once as well.



Virtually no balancing whatsoever has been done to the mod. Luckily, it isn't so difficult to do (just time consuming), if you have an interest in modifying it further for your own use.

One of the major issues I noticed is with the AI itself. I significantly increased the rebel garrisons at the start of the game, but the AI doesn't seem to realize that rebel faction garrisons arent an offensive threat. So you'll probably notice that the AI tries to maintain an equivalent level force as a garrison of their own in every region bordering a rebel region. And that of course puts their economy in a shambles, and they dont expand nearly as quickly as they should. They are too busy trying to defend everywhere against large armies everywhere where they will never be attacked, instead of concentrating their forces and conquering these rebel regions one at a time.

I never got into AI programming, and I'm not even sure what is and isn't hardcoded with the medieval ii engine.
In the meantime, if you want a quick fix, tone down the rebel garrisons at game start. A script could be created to either A) expand the garrison as time passes or B) increase the garrison when attacked by a human player. Not fair, but it compensates for the AI's stupidity.


In terms of potential crashes from compatibility issues, that's also far beyond my ability to comment on. Theoretically, if there's a compatibility issue, this mod shouldnt be any more or any less unstable than AP or vanilla TATW. Testing could shed light on this, but I'm sure you have better things to do with your time than sit there for an hour or two pressing end turn while running TATW vanilla for some kind of comparative analysis.

It's funny, i just wasted over a month doing nothing but playing paradox games...
but if it wasn't for all the frustrating hard-coded limitations, I'd probably go back to work on this mod.

Unfortunately if I want to create a lord of the rings game that is everything that it should be, I'm going to have to make it from scratch, and that would probably take like... 10 years. But I'm studying programming and software design now, so, maybe someday.

[Adjudant-Major]

About the hotseat, it's mostly about checking which faction is ai. This can be easily done, and such condition is enough to make it work fine. In my script I have quite a complex thing for the Fellowship, playable by Gondor, or Rohan, or Eriador, any or all, it works fine.

[euskingc]

For this mod or vanilla? If you mean this one, and you've been playing around with its campaign script, at this point you might know it even better than I do.