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Thread: Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

  1. #1

    Default Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

    This is sure to be a frequent question here, and, as I've played both, I figured I could offer my own perspective. Before I begin, let me be clear: preferring one over the other is mostly a matter of taste; the two mods simply have very different design philosophies.

    So in terms of engine differences, Third Age of course has higher raw graphical quality, but suffers from M2TW's unresponsive troops. In my opinion, Fourth Age has a slightly more tightly focused graphical theme; some of the graphics in Third Age (say, the Osgiliath Pikemen of Gondor) just don't seem to match everything else. I think everyone can agree that the RTW engine has much crisper and more responsive battlemap controls and troop response.

    Thematically, both are set in Middle Earth, but that's where the similarities end. Third Age takes its visual cues from the Peter Jackson movies, and the Third Age isn't the most politically complex - it's good (Elves, Dwarves, and Men of the West) vs evil (Orcs, Saruman, and wicked men of the south and east). That simplicity ends up playing out on the campaign map - a largely good West of the map vs a largely evil east of the map. Fourth Age is more confused; there are really only a few reliable alliances, and there are (I think) 18 factions as opposed to Third Age's 12. It makes for a campaign game that tends to play out with more variety, and it gives complexity to regions of the map that are unused in Third Age. For example, in Third Age, Harad is the one southern faction, and it exists only to fight Gondor. In Fourth Age, the Empire of Harad is powerful - but it's hemmed in by Harondor to the north, Far Harad to the southeast, and the nomads of Khand to the northeast. So in Third Age, the Haradrim really only ever fight Gondor, occasionally getting in border scraps with Rhun. In Fourth Age, there are multi sided wars and diplomatic maneuvering in the south, not even counting the Reunited Kingdom's involvement. So Third Age offers a more immediate head on fight - you don't decide who you fight, just how you fight them. In Fourth Age, it's both - which is appealing for players who want to put a lot of thought into campaign map strategy, but less appealing if you just want to get into the fight.

    Fourth Age is also much more heavily lore focused. This goes beyond just visuals (straight swords for elves) and flavor text. It's built into every aspect of the game. In Third Age, Elves can raise armies and replace losses without too much more difficulty than men. In Fourth Age, population loss is one of the greatest difficulties facing the Elves. On the battlemap, Fourth Age's elves make Third Age's elves look trashy and weak; there is a lot more contrast between elves/dwarves vs MotW vs Men of Darkness than in Third Age, where that contrast exists, but is considerably more muted. For example, Third Age's Uruk Swords, wearing unimpressive looking Orcish armor, are only slightly worse statistically than Gondor's swordsmen. In Fourth Age, Uruks are better than standard Orcs, but still, as in the books, far inferior to the well armed and trained men of Gondor.

    Third Age is visually spectacular, well balanced, and easy to dive into right away. It's designed for players to be able to recreate the epic battles in the LotR movies, and it does a great job at that.
    Fourth Age is also well balanced, and has a tougher learning curve that pays off in its greater complexity. It has more factions, easier battlemap control courtesy of the RTW engine, and far greater attention to lore.

    I suppose a really (over)simple way to put it would be to say that Third Age appeals more to movie fans, and Fourth Age appeals more to book fans. I'm decidedly one of the latter and prefer Fourth Age, but if someone asked me which one they should play I would simply tell them to play both and make up their own mind.
    Last edited by SnuggleBunnies; January 17, 2016 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

    Very interesting, thanks for this comparison! You've expressed my feelings about the RTW engine very well. That said, I still play some M2, and have played a couple of mods for it (never got around to Third Age, though), and it does have its strengths, too. As you say, sometimes you want a different experience.
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

  3. #3
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

    I can repeat the thoughts I put down over at reddit -

    I've played both quite a bit - TATW has really excellent, if derivative, visuals (I wish I was as good a 3d artists as whoever did their custom buildings) and a lot of cool features (using the palantir to randomly reveal parts of the map, or refounding Arnor). Gameplay is fairly vanilla-ish though and some areas are not very polished (traits and ancs, guilds).
    FATW on the other hand has less impressive but more unique and original visuals (its on an older game, after all) and is the more lore adhering one (though we push it a bit in some areas too, to be fair). All round, but particularly in gameplay, it pushes the envelope a bit more in trying to create a unique experience very different from vanilla, or most other mods. The commitment to polish and quality is more evident IMO.
    They are both wonderful, in their own ways, and there is more than enough room in the community for each (and many other LoTR themed mods too). TBH I've never understood the negative fanboy-ism that seems to feel the need to denigrate one just to feel better about preferring the other.

    edit - I can also add that TATW has a large amount of submods, to suit many tastes, and fill in the blanks. We could only be so lucky!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

    Although many of those submods are lacking in stability, lacking the rigorous testing and bugfixing of the base mod.

  5. #5
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

    Yes, that is very true, it's worth being discerning with what you install.

  6. #6
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

    In my opinion the battles on M2TW engine are not that bad as most people tends to describe them and I like the cavalry cavalry charges better on M2TW as on RTW they look way too orderly. On the other hand most of my M2TW experiences comes from playing Bellum Crucis, EB2 and Wrath of the Norsmen which are all pretty advanced mods so the dveloper may have done something about the issue there. I have not tried yet TATW and in fact despite I always liked Tolkiens world I were never tempted to try any fantasy mod for RTW/M2TW untill the "in game features preview" of FATW came out. Then I realized that playing Middle earth themed mod may contain more than just replaying the battles from the movies. At the moment I am determined to play aslo Silmarillion TW when it comes out and probably give a chance to DCI Last Alliance submod for TATW.
    Last edited by demagogos nicator; January 18, 2016 at 04:29 AM.

  7. #7
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Fourth Age vs Third Age: The Inevitable Comparison

    The main issue with TATW is, that TATW vanilla, despite it's superb graphics, offers quite boring gameplay. Sure, there are fun units, but the rather simplistic building tree, and no ZoR-System at all (IIRC), TATW is simply not on par with most other mods.

    The biggest asset TATW has is its huuuge fanbase and the vast amount of submods. And some of those are just incredible, providing much what TATW vanilla lacks, and vastly improve lore.
    On the other hand, some of the mods just go over the top, adding too many, too similar units of which some are insanely OP or just... weird (Avari Elves? Huh?).

    It's been a long time I played TATW. Think I should have a go at it again some time...
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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