[CAMPAIGN] Manpower System for Ancient Empires, By Causeless

[Causeless]

Just posting to say I've released an update. Details in the description.

[Viking1978]

Ultimately the value being stored isn't actually tied to the actual unit size, so you are free to set it to anything.

Just posting to say I've released an update. Details in the description.

Nice!

setRegionPopulation(regionName, population * 1.25) -- Grow region population every turn. Later, the growth count ought to change due to food/immigrants or whatever

I suggest food surplus on faction level & public order on region level (food shortage is calculated in public order already, together with immigration, and other stuff like instability, raiding, amount of buildings built, religious differences etc.) Well, if you need any more factors, for these kind of things you can always find inspiration in Mitch's threads... I didn't check recently, but I'm sure some people came up with more ideas.

Anyway, this may be of use:
faction():has_food_shortage()
faction():region():public_order()

I used them myself when making lua changes concerning character traits and ancillaries. Anyway, I am just as an amateur as it comes to lua and I repeat, the above are merely suggestions.
(from: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...Game-Functions)

[Causeless]

I'm planning on it - I'll probably release something which improves this in the next update.

This version is very early - I used the quickest, most crude population growth method possible

[Ikeis93]

amazing work

[Viking1978]

I'm planning on it - I'll probably release something which improves this in the next update.

This version is very early - I used the quickest, most crude population growth method possible

Ait. I knew that, but I thought you still needed some inspiration. Anyway, you seem to have everything under control. G'luck, mate

[Causeless]

Just a little update - Litherion and Magnar approached me about collaborating while developing our population mods (and perhaps working together on other projects in the future - we'll see how things go). Hopefully this should improve both of our mods!

[Phalangitis]

I am very eager to see your approach on this subject Caus. Sometimes its not only where we get but also how we get there..
I am also very happy to see you back and active in modding and scripting as we need as many talanted scripters we can have for Rome 2 and Attila
Have a creative and succesfull completion with this project.I will be following you with interest.
Cheers

[Viking1978]

Quite a cream of a killer team... with Dresden also...

[Causeless]

snip - accidental post. Tried to edit the front post and accidentally clicked "reply".

To not waste the post, I'll add that it's the weekend now so I should be able to focus on this mod at lot more and hopefully get some progress done.

[ReaperXM]

Just want to throw in a good luck. This looks beautiful. After having lost the population system from old total war games, building an army has just felt too easy. Thanks man!

[Retógenes]

I have no words to define this.

This is absolutely ... ... ummm... eemm... AARGH!!

[Xranitel]

Welcome! I have a question. You have introduced a new system of the population, but will now be expanding settlements? After all, before it uses conditional population. And as it is now will be hiring hordes?
Even such a question, I understand that you probably do not know, but I will ask. Can I attach the tax system to the public? That is, the more people, the more money from taxes, not as it is now from the buildings.
And another question. Mitch says he found a way to change the interface, at its discretion during the game and change the way they like. Can you at this stage to change the interface to add something new?

[Xranitel]

Another question. Russian modders say that there is no sense in your system, because it will have to redo the whole game. Because everything is interconnected and changing key system will have to change and the economy and the construction and hordes etc.

[Causeless]

Welcome! I have a question. You have introduced a new system of the population, but will now be expanding settlements? After all, before it uses conditional population. And as it is now will be hiring hordes?
Even such a question, I understand that you probably do not know, but I will ask. Can I attach the tax system to the public? That is, the more people, the more money from taxes, not as it is now from the buildings.
And another question. Mitch says he found a way to change the interface, at its discretion during the game and change the way they like. Can you at this stage to change the interface to add something new?

The population system currently isn't tied into city growth. The growth of a city uses the vanilla system, while the population system only really matters for armies. I'm likely to change this in the future - it was just the easiest way to do things!

When Mitch said that he had changed the interface, I suspect his interface modding was very limited - constrained mostly to moving objects etc. In his mod, afaik he just hijacks the settlement growth modifier to represent growth, without actually creating a new icon (the same thing I do here right now). Research is really ongoing in the area, however.

[Causeless]

Another question. Russian modders say that there is no sense in your system, because it will have to redo the whole game. Because everything is interconnected and changing key system will have to change and the economy and the construction and hordes etc.

Right now, the system ultimately only serves as a replacement for recruiting units - instead of being able to recruit a flat 4 units per turn per region, this is a system which would allow us to simulate certain regions having more fighting men - for example, ancient Rome was able to defeat Carthage mostly due to a massive manpower advantage.

The best way to think about it is that my system (currently) represents the number of men that are both willing and able to fight in the region, not pure population itself. Thinking this way about it simplifies things, because then we don't need to redo any core systems. Instead of changing the game to work around our manpower system, we slot our manpower system in to work with the game's current mechanics - city growth could give a boost to manpower, for example, but large manpower wouldn't necessarily give a boost to city growth.

However, note I'm just throwing concepts around here. I'd like to hear your input on whether you think these are decent ideas or not!

[Willhelm123]

I like the sound of that. Late Roman had a huge population, yet its military manpower was tiny and could never get enough recruits, so manpower doesn't have to represent population.

I'm wondering if you can do two separate manpower sources, for say the common people, and the aristocracy. So when you recruit a Levy Spear unit it comes from common people, and Noble Swordsmen comes from the aristocracy. But that might be too complicated for now.

[Petellius]

I like the sound of that. Late Roman had a huge population, yet its military manpower was tiny and could never get enough recruits, so manpower doesn't have to represent population.

I'm wondering if you can do two separate manpower sources, for say the common people, and the aristocracy. So when you recruit a Levy Spear unit it comes from common people, and Noble Swordsmen comes from the aristocracy. But that might be too complicated for now.

this can and has/will be done I believe. The pop script that magnar and the others are working had elites, common people, foreigners and perigrini classes I believe, or something very similar

[Causeless]

I like the sound of that. Late Roman had a huge population, yet its military manpower was tiny and could never get enough recruits, so manpower doesn't have to represent population.

I'm wondering if you can do two separate manpower sources, for say the common people, and the aristocracy. So when you recruit a Levy Spear unit it comes from common people, and Noble Swordsmen comes from the aristocracy. But that might be too complicated for now.

It's possible and planned. I'm thinking of perhaps 3 groups of manpower, which would roughly match to velites, hastati + principes, and triarii. What do you think?

[Willhelm123]

Three would be more flexible and more historical, but might start getting overly complicated. It guess it comes down to if you think you can pull it off.

[Tempest51]

I like the sound of that. Late Roman had a huge population, yet its military manpower was tiny and could never get enough recruits, so manpower doesn't have to represent population.

I'm wondering if you can do two separate manpower sources, for say the common people, and the aristocracy. So when you recruit a Levy Spear unit it comes from common people, and Noble Swordsmen comes from the aristocracy. But that might be too complicated for now.

Many cultures also had a middle or freeholder class to recruit from, and they had their own niche on the battlefield. So maybe they can be included if it doesn't make things too complicated.