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Thread: People of Rome 2 (P++) - Main Discussion

  1. #1
    Magnar's Avatar Artifex
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    Jul 2013
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    Default People of Rome 2 (P++) - Main Discussion

    People of Rome 2


    People of Rome 2 adds a population mechanic to the game to add depth, immersion and an all round better gaming experience. Keep an ever watchful eye on how your population rises and falls and with it your own successes.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    This is a summarised growth impact. It is not exact and is averaged for all classes. It is only meant as an indication as to how the growth will change. The actual growth value will be different for each class of people.

    Population Display
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Population Classes
    There will be 4 classes of people representing :
    1) Upper Class/Nobles/Partricians
    2) Middle Class/ Plebians / Warrior Class
    3) Lower Class/ Prolitarii / Commoners
    4) Foreigners / Peregrinii

    The name of each class will be dependent on the faction's culture.

    The total population will reflect the adult male of fighting age.

    Population Growth
    This will be influenced from a variety of factors as seen below. The impact each factor will have is still dependent on our testing and balancing which we have only just now started. The below modifiers to growth are what we have currently planned and implemented. If they are not included in the final release and you would like to play with them, it will be very easy to enable them again.

    - Base Growth: each region will get a base growth rate which will be reduced as the population increases and go negative once the population goes above a certain level to represent a theoretical max population
    - Building & Technology Growth: Some buildings may give a bonus to population growth and this may vary depending on if the region has a majority culture and also by population class, eg A trade building may boost foreigner growth-- multiplies base pop by building specific bonuses
    - Food: Food shortages will reduce population and not having a food shortage can increase it
    - Majority Religion: Having a majority religion in your region will boost growth of your own people and not having it will encourage foreigners
    - Faction/Culture: Some factions or cultures may have a boost to the growth of certain classes or of their population as a whole
    - Public Order: Low public order results in reduced pop and vice versa
    - Taxation: High tax low growth and vice versa
    - Faction Capital: Gets a bonus to growth
    - Province Capital: Also get a bonus to growth but not as much as the faction capital
    - Foreign Armies: A foreign army in the region makes it less secure and this results in lower growth
    - Under Siege: A settlement undersiege will suffer large growth penalties
    - Looted settlement (Raze, looted): Large penalties to growth cos ya know they kill people and stuff
    - Occupied Settlment: People die here as well but not as much as when looted

    Foreign Population Mechanic
    At the start of a game most regions will have very small foreign populations.

    When you conquer a region, all it's population will be converted to Foreigners and you will have to build your citizen populations up from scratch in the region.

    As more regions are conquered the size of the foreign population in your regions will increase. This combined with the reduced growth from population size will result in it being harder and harder to recruit elite units as you expand.

    Here is a screenshot from a recent test after about 8 turns
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    I captured Velathri on turn 1 and now 8 turns later, there still aren't enough citizens in the region to recruit new units. I've had to go back to Roma to recruit units.

    Economic Effects
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Population and class ratios will also impact on the economy and public order.

    Our current system works like so:
    There is an ideal class % with the current default % set to: Noble = 5%, Middle = 15%, Low = 80%. Custom ratios can be set for different cultures.

    The noble's % determines the management of the rural areas and gives a buff or debuff to agriculture income depending on if it is higher or lower than the ideal %

    The middle class % determines the cultural, industrial and commercial buff or debuff

    There is no current effect associated with the lower class ratio as it will indirectly contribute to the other 2 classes

    The foreigner population will have 2 impacts on your regions.
    1) If the total foreigner population of your faction gets above 50% then it will cause public order penalty in all your regions. The greater the total % of foreigners in the faction the worse the public order will be.

    2) Control, the % of foreigners in any given region will determine the level of administrative control over the region represented by a modifier to subsistence income. There are 4 stages of this to represent different types of regions: Heartland, Provincial, Colonial, Subject.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Regions are split into one of 4 region types
    1) Faction capital
    2) Province capital
    3) Minor region
    4) Frontier region (bordering any other faction's region)

    Different influencers then make different region types more desirable
    1) food shortage - sends pops of all types to minor regions
    2) Treasury - a large faction treasury draws all pops to the faciton and to a lesser extent province capitols to try get their hands on some of it
    3) losing money - people go to minor settlements
    4) war - when at war people flee the frontier regions
    5) sea trade route raided - pop goes to minor regions
    6) faction - different factions can have more likelihood to be ruralised or urban
    7) tax level - people flee to frontiers with high tax to avoid the tax man
    8) not researching - stagnant culture will result in people leaving capitols and going to minor regions
    9) number of allies - reduces penalty in frontier regions
    10) Class ratios - The faction will have an ideal population class ration if the regions pop ratio is different to the ideal then it will get a bonus or malus to bring it into line with the ideal base ratio. This is a multiplier applied to all other immigration influences and as such should have the largest impact on immigration movements in most cases.
    11) Undersiege - all pops will want to leave a settlement undersiege
    12) foreign army present: all pops will leave
    13) battle fought - all pops will want to leave a region where a battle is fought
    14) buildings - can give a bonus to a regions migration attractiveness and it can vary for region type. Currently no buildings give a bonus but the mechanic is set up to allow it to be added.
    15) technologies - just like buildings, tech also can impact region migration attractiveness. Currently no techs give a bonus but the mechanic is set up to allow it to be added.

    How Migration Movements Work
    Each region gets a migration attractiveness/desirability rating. These are then compared against all the neighbouring regions owned by the faction. If the neighbour region is more desirable, then it will get a boost to its population and the less desirable region will lose population

    People can only migrate to an adjacent region. This means that island regions will only have inter island migration.

    In Game Mechanic Explanation
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    To Do List
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    We are currently in internal beta testing

    Before First Public Release

    - MP (done)
    - Testing for balance and bugs
    - AI pop usage (done)

    Future Plans
    -- Link population to unlocking of settlement slots

    P++ Team
    -Litharion - co lead
    -Magnar - puts the co in co lead
    - Dresden - does the stuff we dont really want to do

    - Thanks to the VV and GaW researchers and people who posted in this thread for helping with the naming of the different social classes for the different faction
    - Thanks also to our beta testers

    The P++ is homage to Mitch's Populous (populous++) mod. I'm not saying we're copying his mod... but I'm not saying we're not not copying it...

    This mod will be for vanilla and once finished and balanced will then be added to both Vae Victis and Divide Et Impera
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Version 1.png  
    Last edited by Magnar; February 19, 2016 at 09:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Ritter-Floh's Avatar Artifex
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    May 2011

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    is it strange to have wet pants after reading this?

  3. #3

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Really ambitious ! Will keep an eye!

  4. #4
    bobbyr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Apr 2013

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Wow, just wow.

    You guys are incredible!

  5. #5

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    I creamed myself.

    Just wow!

  6. #6

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    I'd usually say no one could do the kind of black sorcery .Mitch. was able to do with the engine. But then I read Magnar. Then Litharion. Then Dresden. If there is anyone capable of doing it, it is them. I'll be hoping on the hype train now, if you'd excuse me.

  7. #7

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Looking great guys. They are the script beasts, I am simply here to help facilitate things when I have free time. Think of me as that hunchback assistant to Dr. Frankenstein -- Igor?

    ----> Website -- Patreon -- Steam -- Forums -- Youtube -- Facebook <----

  8. #8

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    I love this, additionally in that you seperate population so that you cannot save population by spamming you elites and hopefully will force Carthage to use mercenaries.

  9. #9
    VINC.XXIII's Avatar Retired
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Most impressive.

  10. #10

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    That's gonna be awesome, particularly for Carthaginians and Succesor States. Whole new layer of strategy.

  11. #11

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    I can't wait to see your progress!

  12. #12
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Jan 2011

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Nice one

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out

    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod | DCI: T˘l Acharn - mighty D˙nedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliš Alý, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  13. #13

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Οoooh can't wait for this!

  14. #14

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Excellent news!

    Quick question, if its not too early to ask; will this just effect recruitment or replenishment too?

  15. #15
    Magnar's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noone likes Thebes:( View Post
    Excellent news!

    Quick question, if its not too early to ask; will this just effect recruitment or replenishment too?
    too early to ask

    We are still in the early stages of dev

  16. #16
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
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    Jun 2013
    Regnum Sweorum et Gothorum

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Splendid work! I wish you the best of luck!

  17. #17
    Maetharin's Avatar Senator
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    Oct 2013

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    First of all, congratulations on taking on this work, if anyone on twcenter can do this it┤s you guys!

    Secondly, how many populations can a faction have?
    And would it be possible to have diverging numbers of population types for different factions?

    Or would it even be possible to tie population composition to factions and regions?
    F.e.: Rome has this kind of population under Rome, but a different composition under Carthage,
    whereas both factions have a standardised pattern of population composition in regions of less historical importance.

    Best regards.
    "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse!"

    Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius

    "I concur!"


  18. #18

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Is there any approximate release date for this?

    You guys appear far ahead of where I am!
    modificateurs sans frontiŔres

    Developer for Ancient Empires
    (scripter, developed tools for music modding, tools to import custom battle maps into campaign)

    Lead developer of Attila Citizenship Population Mod
    (joint 1st place for Gameplay Mods in 2016 Modding Awards)

    Assisted with RMV2 Converter
    (2nd place for Warscape Engine Resources in 2016 Modding Awards)

  19. #19

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Impressive and great breakthrough. Great work to all involved.

  20. #20
    Junaidi83 de Bodemloze's Avatar Dont Mess With Me
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    Feb 2011

    Default Re: People of Rome 2 (P++)

    Err magnar, do the AI realy know the effect, or the script was work for human only ?
    Modding is like accursed wine, you try a sip and you ended empty the whole glass
    Under Proud Patronage of Shankbot de Bodemloze

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