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Thread: Campaign Reports

  1. #301

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Yeah, it can be difficult. You don't want to wait too long and have the Elves train a bunch of troops that they leave standing right on the river crossing, blocking your path. I try for Military Access, but sometimes the Elves are stubborn.

    However, Moria has 2 entrances in 3.3, so you don't have to go through Lorien. We set the West-gate to be open at campaign start (whether you're playing as the Dwarves or not). Mostly it was because the player-buildable version had an unfixable bug whereby you'd lose the (hefty) trade bonus granted by the West-gate after loading a save. But it also allows the Dwarven player another route to bypass the ZoC issues in Lorien.
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  2. #302

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    After commenting about AI progression in 3.3, I thought I might share some campaigns I've been playing to illustrate my point. And since I'm at it, we might just as well turn it into a round of "find the human player". First is:



    The answer is:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Dwarves, FO 399. Expecting to see about the same AI expansion as in 3.2, I wanted to hole up and keep the RK barely alive in the north, take some usefull settlements, and just see what happens in the world. It's and enjoyable campaign in spite of the rather unexpected developments... I mean, just look at Tharbad. And Rhun really enjoys the lack of hearthmen caused by a passive Dale. Not *that* passive, though, as Dale has repeatedly attacked my troops I stationed north of Dale to prevent their stacks blocking off Erebor. Reloading usually helps, but it sure scared the crap out of me when it first happened, because I thought they hade an unbreakable alliance. I traded Framsburg for Garth in the hope that they would relocate their stacks to a more central position, but to no avail. This is possibly the most annoying thing you have to deal with in the Dwarf campaign.
    I also like that new specialization building that lets you recruit hearth troops in northmen territory - did these guys ever see any play before? It also might help with a submod idea I've been having for a while, although I doubt I'll ever get to implement it.
    Last edited by The Sloth; May 29, 2018 at 12:17 PM.

  3. #303

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    uhm... why didn't you take Orodengrin and the northern forts? That's a fully fledged Dwarf homeland province you're missing out on, plus some trade revenue.

  4. #304

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    uhm... why didn't you take Orodengrin and the northern forts? That's a fully fledged Dwarf homeland province you're missing out on, plus some trade revenue.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I didn't know you could actually make a real city out of Orodengrin. I thought it was just your ordinary orc hold. Looks like I have something new to try out, then.

    And here's the next one:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Dorwinion, FO 381. Dorwinion has been one of my favorite factions for a while. An underdog with a cozy, rich starting location, and a solid unit lineup. I like turtling and building up my cities, and Dorwinion won't come under any serious attack for a good while. To extend that period, I took the rebel settlement on the northern shore of the Rhun Sea and gave it to North Rhun, to keep Big Rhun off my back for a little longer. But then, I allied with Dale, and North Rhun attacked me. I took their two western settlements, crippling them, and prepared for Dale's betrayal. They did not disappoint me (do they ever?), and I managed to push them back in a series of hard-fought battles. It helped that their armies were very spread out, as they had been busy subjugating the orcs in the Misties. The campaign slowed to a crawl, because those bardings are stupidly tough, Dale City kept pumping out Black Arrows and Hearthmen, my king has about 0.01 HP, and I'm a very nervous guy who doesn't want his battles all that tense. (Of course, Rhun attacked me too once they were done with Rhovanion, meaning I'm at war with all my neighbours except Adunabar, and my crucial trade income has been reduced to a trickle.)
    Now my king stands before the gates of Dale itself. The city is guarded by the company of the Black Arrows and the obligatory hearthmen. Dale's heir stands between me and his city, and the dwarves are pouring down the mountains. But my spy will open the gates if I attack this turn, which would allow me to cripple Dale, hopefully beyond recovery. If anyone wants to try their luck, I have attached the save. See the screenshot for army compositions.
    Nuada2.zip
    Last edited by The Sloth; May 29, 2018 at 03:14 PM.

  5. #305

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Great stuff! How'd that battle go?

    Good to see that Adunabar is still around, at least for now.
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  6. #306

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS View Post
    Great stuff! How'd that battle go?
    It took a few attempts, but the AI ended up handing the battle to me. I marched my army through an unguarded gate, to which the defenders responded by sending their units one by one, causing them to be shot to pieces by their own walls and my archers thereon. Even so, the battle was very close in the end, due to that one last unit of dane-axe-wielding lunatics defending the town square. They caused about two thirds of my losses and almost made me lose by timeout.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Since then, the campaign has been going smoothly. Dale had an intact toy workshop, and Esgaroth even had a trade center! Good to see the new feature does more than I expected - or maybe it's just because it's Dale. Either way, I managed to get rid of North Rhun, and gain ground against Dale and Big Rhun. Sadly, the Beornings have recently made peace with Adunabar, and I know very well what that means for me. Not only that, but the RK beat Rhun to the conquest of Rhovanost, making them my new neighbour... They already asked for a modest donation, you know, as a token of respect for their efforts to keep the peace in Rhovanion (or something like that). I was happy to oblige, and threw in another 15.000 bucks to buy an alliance. Not easy finding friends when you're at war with one fourth of the known world. Still, they will soon need a new target, and I think once they find one, I will start another game. I was hoping Harad would keep them occupied, but apparently nobody has told Harondor that they're supposed to be a mini-faction... They've been playing ping-pong with Ur since round 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS View Post
    Good to see that Adunabar is still around, at least for now.
    Seriously, though. What did you do to Adunabar? They used to always come out on top, but now they're a pushover, and I can't seem to find the reason for it. Their settlements and stacks, as well as the RK's, seem unchanged from 3.2. I looked at the files to see if you changed their units' secondary hitpoints to make them perform worse in auto-battles, but no changes there, either.

    I mean, just look at the state fo FATW's main villain...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by The Sloth; June 02, 2018 at 04:07 AM.

  7. #307

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sloth View Post
    It took a few attempts, but the AI ended up handing the battle to me. I marched my army through an unguarded gate, to which the defenders responded by sending their units one by one, causing them to be shot to pieces by their own walls and my archers thereon. Even so, the battle was very close in the end, due to that one last unit of dane-axe-wielding lunatics defending the town square. They caused about two thirds of my losses and almost made me lose by timeout.
    A bit foolhardy of you to attack that Dale garrison without any AP or anti-infantry unit of your own. IMO you should have brought at least one unit of Halberdiers and Men-at-Arms each, plus two units of Rhovanion Foresters to thin out the Hearthmen.
    Also, have you considered taking Narag-zigil? Might be worth it. Although, if you own Dale, might as well take Erebor instead.

  8. #308

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    There was no conscious attempt to nerf Adunabar, at least as far as I know. It could be that a number of features, perhaps including some of the new units available, have changed the economy and balance of power enough to tip things against them most of the time.

    In 3.2, I do remember that the RK did well when I was playing as Dorwinion. After I took out most of Rhun, the RK showed up and started war with me - which was actually kind of cool, I thought: the RK asserting the old Gondorian borders, and me as the new upstart blocking their plans.

    I'd be curious to see how AI Adunabar does in other campaigns, though, since the Dorwinion campaign may favor the RK a bit.
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  9. #309

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric
    A bit foolhardy of you to attack that Dale garrison without any AP or anti-infantry unit of your own. IMO you should have brought at least one unit of Halberdiers and Men-at-Arms each, plus two units of Rhovanion Foresters to thin out the Hearthmen.
    Also, have you considered taking Narag-zigil? Might be worth it. Although, if you own Dale, might as well take Erebor instead.
    It was an unexpected opportunity, as my spy just happened to open the gates that turn, so it was do it or leave it. As for the dwarves, their armies are huge, I believe my dorwinion watch is no longer armor piercing, and hallberdiers are expensive, so they have little to fear from me for a long, long time to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS View Post
    I'd be curious to see how AI Adunabar does in other campaigns, though, since the Dorwinion campaign may favor the RK a bit.
    Why would Dorwinion favor the RK? Anyway, we already had Dwarves and Dorwinion, so here's a Dale campaign (I hope Khand's performance is not the result of the minor tweaks I did to their roster). This issue bugs me, so I have mainly been playing factions that don't get involved in the war between the two, and are powerfull enough for me not having to fight every battle myself for 100 turns just to check Adunabar's progression.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by The Sloth; June 04, 2018 at 10:28 AM.

  10. #310

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Heh. I see you also like giving Imladris to the Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Sloth View Post
    It was an unexpected opportunity, as my spy just happened to open the gates that turn, so it was do it or leave it.
    Fair enough, but I prefer having a more diverse selection of troops in each army, just in case.


    As for the dwarves, their armies are huge, I believe my dorwinion watch is no longer armor piercing, and hallberdiers are expensive, so they have little to fear from me for a long, long time to come.
    The point is that you can get an AP unit from Dwarven lands (and only there) now. Takes a long time of building up, though. With the right expansion choices (don't forget Rhovanost...), Dorwinion's roster can become very powerful in 3.3.


    Why would Dorwinion favor the RK? Anyway, we already had Dwarves and Dorwinion, so here's a Dale campaign (I hope Khand's performance is not the result of the minor tweaks I did to their roster). This issue bugs me, so I have mainly been playing factions that don't get involved in the war between the two, and are powerfull enough for me not having to fight every battle myself for 100 turns just to check Adunabar's progression.
    I think his point is that a Dorwinion player keeps some factions in check that might otherwise pose a bigger threat to the RK.

  11. #311

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Heh. I see you also like giving Imladris to the Elves.
    Nah, that must be Tharbad.


    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Fair enough, but I prefer having a more diverse selection of troops in each army, just in case.
    As do I, but it just wasn't practical in my situation. Money was too tight to build up Rathwin (since I had noone to trade with), and the hallbardiers I recuited in Belegant were needed there against the easterlings.


    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    The point is that you can get an AP unit from Dwarven lands (and only there) now. Takes a long time of building up, though. With the right expansion choices (don't forget Rhovanost...), Dorwinion's roster can become very powerful in 3.3.
    I already had a look at the files. The mountain wardens (?) are neat, but I don't trust my armies to actually take those heavily guarded settlements, and Dorwinion's infantry is already excellent anyway. The RK getting its claws on Rhovanost really annoyed me, though. Those march wardens would really round up Dorwinion's tactical options - too bad you can only recruit them there, but making foreign elites available too widely would only trivialize them, so it's fine.

    Also, I would feel bad about capturing non-mannish settlements...

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    I think his point is that a Dorwinion player keeps some factions in check that might otherwise pose a bigger threat to the RK.
    Uh, such as...? Dunland? Harad?

  12. #312

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sloth View Post
    As do I, but it just wasn't practical in my situation. Money was too tight to build up Rathwin (since I had noone to trade with), and the hallbardiers I recuited in Belegant were needed there against the easterlings.
    I know the feeling. I actually struggled with money in recent campaigns with easier factions, including Dale. Still, at least Foresters are cheap, and they deal more damage to armoured units than archers. WRT development, don't forget that Rathwin has more efficient farming (though not as good as Belegant); also, conversion buildings help a lot with land tax.


    I already had a look at the files. The mountain wardens (?) are neat, but I don't trust my armies to actually take those heavily guarded settlements, and Dorwinion's infantry is already excellent anyway. The RK getting its claws on Rhovanost really annoyed me, though. Those march wardens would really round up Dorwinion's tactical options - too bad you can only recruit them there, but making foreign elites available too widely would only trivialize them, so it's fine.

    Also, I would feel bad about capturing non-mannish settlements...
    Don't forget you can buy (not bribe, which is usually more expensive) settlements from factions you don't want to go to war with. It usually costs upwards of 10k. Wambat's guide should have more details on this. As Dale, I bought Narag-zigil from the Dwarves But I gave them Orodengrin, Sarnford, Gundabad, and Northern Hold (and soon, Mount Gram and Angmar etc.), so I consider that fair.


    Uh, such as...? Dunland? Harad?
    Rhűn and Adunabar, mostly. And Dale, in later stages.

  13. #313

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Well, each faction has a different setup when it comes to every other faction - e.g., if you're playing as Dale, Rhun will be strengthened (to give the player a better challenge); if you're playing as Rhun, Dale will be stronger, etc.

    I'm thinking that, if the player is Dorwinion (or Dale), the fact that Rhun tends to be stronger in those campaigns might mean that Adunabar has a harder time dealing with Rhun (assuming they're at war).

    However, it does appear that there has been a change overall. I don't believe it was an intentional nerf to Adunabar, but that seems to have been the result.
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  14. #314

    Default Re: Campaign Reports


  15. #315

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Very nice. I'll be doing a playthrough of Dorwinion soonish, for a guide. I've played the first parts of this campaign several times, but rarely got to the later game. Any advice?
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  16. #316

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    Here is how I usually play it: Get Tol Rhun right away. Then, and this is important: get Iaur Helcar and gift it to North Rhun. If you do not, Rhun will take it, and you do *not* want Rhun as a neighbour before you are done dealing with Dale. If Rhun takes Narag Zigil and becomes you neighbour anyway, restart the campaign unless you can take full stacks from three different factions coming for you every turn with no income of your own, being a merchant faction at war with almost all potential trading partners.

    Because Dale will be coming for you. They usually take North Rhun's western settlement, spar with them for a while, and then declare war on you, alliances be damned. They are better than you at everything - infantry, cavalry or archers, and you need to crush their stacks as fast as possible, because they can afford a drawn-out war, and you can not. The battle of Dale itself is usually the most intense fight of my Dorwinion campaigns. Fight one single unit of hearthmen on the town square and you can kiss goodbye to many brave men on your side.

    North Rhun will be desperate to ally with you at first, and is usually willing to pay any sum they can afford, but once Dale has declared war on you, they will join in eventually. But their units are crap, and unlike Rhun they can not send one full stack a turn. You can take some settlements from them to weaken them, as long as you avoid a border with Rhun.

    Rhovanion will usually go after Adunabar, and fare reasonably well. Watch out for Rhun attacking them, and if they do, hurry up on the Dale front.

    Once Dale, Esgaroth, and maybe Erebor, have fallen, your campaign is pretty safe. Finish off Dale, make peace with the dwarves (they will usually want a truckload of money, but at least they will stop bribing your border towns) and maybe give Framsburg to the elves to get a 100% safe north-western border. Then you can deal with Rhun (Tham makes a good chokepoint against attacks from the south, and is easy to reinforce with native elite troops via the Sea of Rhun). Or with whoever owns Rhovanion at that point, usually either Adunabar or Rhun. Rhovanion is a homeland for you, and you can train your men-at-arms there, but not your halberdiers. Mid-Deeping and Ost-in-Agarlad (or the settlement east to it) make a fairly good chokepoint against the south-west, although you may have to buy them off Rohan and the RK. If you take Ost-in-Agarlad or Lathron, you can recruit some retainer swordsmen there (like RK men-at-arms).

    Other than that: never let your capital Belegant come under siege - it will cost you thousands of gold per turn.
    Other unit options of interest are vassal longbowmen in Dale lands, march-warden medium cavalry in Rhovanost and mountain guards in Erebor and/or Narag-Zigil.
    And in my campaign, Rhun went cultic after losing enough settlements to me, which was interesting.
    Last edited by The Sloth; February 24, 2021 at 08:45 AM.

  17. #317

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Awesome points, The Sloth. I usually take Tol Rhun early, and gifting provinces to toss up a buffer zone is crucial for some of these northeastern factions.

    I have 2 recent Dorwinion starts going, both of which I did things differently. The first one, I made Rhovanion my first target. Attacked and took Iath-in-Rhaw, and sent a threatening force toward Ereb Gobel early. Rhovanion was interested in peace after that, and I wasn't too interested in sharing a border with Adunabar, so I got some money out of ceasefire, trade, and alliance with them, and then took my army down to Braig Estolad, which had just fallen to Rhun. Took that, gifted it to Rhovanion, and headed further east, sacking Erebost and taking Fennas-rim. I wanted to build up Fennas-rim, but that was a mistake - I should have kept mobile, trashing Rhun's settlements and looping back to the homelands. Instead, I got bottled up in Fennas-rim for a little by a siege before abandoning it and heading back west the way I had come. But by then Dale attacked me, even though they hadn't made much headway against NR.

    Start #2, I figured I'd go for Dale immediately. Train more or less constantly from turn 1, building up MD in both settlements, and get a decent force to head for Dale itself. I got to Dale, put it under siege, was counterattacked at the ford, won the battle handily - and CTD So, we'll be trying that again and seeing how it goes. I figure if I can become the new Dale, it'll be much easier, even if I end up losing some of my initial settlements.
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  18. #318

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Phew I finally completed my Dunalnd campaign, 40 provinces are a lot!
    I managed to convert most of Gondor and Rohan to the cult which was cool thematically, but didn't really do anything apart from tie down some large armies the whole game XD

    I actually stayed friends with Tharbad the whole game until I backstabbed them for the final few territories, the final boss was strangely the Beornlings.
    They sent stack after stack at The Wold, at first I was easily killing them at the fords but they kept coming and broke through resulting in some cool multistack battles.

    Having chanting cultists behind militia troops is really fun. The Beornling axemen were cutting them down like wheat before the scythe, but the men of Gondor, Rohan and Dunland were going to there deaths with a song on their lips!
    Now I grow tired of the slaughter, time for a campaign as the good guys.

  19. #319

    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Well, it was fun while it lasted! Just posted the latest save of my first serious attempt at the Rhovanion campaign, if anyone's curious or thinks they can salvage it! I've found Rhovanion to be surprisingly effective on the battlefield, but the strategic situation and the population issues make this one tough campaign. Struck out for Belegant first, then tried to maintain an alliance with both Rhun factions to give me time to finish off Dale. I let Dorwinion keep Rathwin as a counter to North Rhun, knowing that likely wouldn't last. Successfully neutralized Dale, but not in time it appears as both Rhun and Adunabar saw fit to strike at my homelands...and I fear NR isn't far behind. If I continued, I think I might actually be able to hold off Rhun and North Rhun with my two stacks, but Adunabar is pretty much the Anti-Rhovanion when it comes to battle map strengths and weaknesses.

    Lessons learned:
    Rhovanion's spearmen are a waste of population. Train Foresters instead.

    March Wardens are great!

    It would almost be better to just go for Dale straight off, simply to take advantage of their settlements' higher population! I took Belegant because I couldn't resist the sweet, sweet mirian, but population, not money, is the reason I only have two full field armies. Feels pretty precarious.

    I had to fight some Dwarves near Dale, and found that the Foresters and March-Wardens were surprisingly effective against them. Perhaps my least stressful battle.

    Effective diplomacy is essential for Rhovanion's survival. I think I could have avoided war with Adunabar with sufficient diplomatic prep work, and perhaps some strategic gifting of settlements to the Elves. The holy grail of course would be to get Rhun and North Rhun to fight each other!

    I tend to be a cautious player, and this campaign seems to reward a high risk, aggressive style that took me waaayy out of my comfort zone. You almost need to play this faction like Parthia in vanilla RTW, without the benefit of the horse archers!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  20. #320
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    Default Re: Campaign Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by greenmh1 View Post
    Well, it was fun while it lasted! Just posted the latest save of my first serious attempt at the Rhovanion campaign, if anyone's curious or thinks they can salvage it!
    I've never played Rhovanian but I can't resist a challenge, I'm not doing any LP's atm and have some spare time, so I'll have a go and let you know how I get on.

    EDIT: bloody hell you got yourself in a right pickle here laddie ...the difficult I can often manage ...the impossible will take a damn sight longer
    Last edited by Saul Tyre; September 19, 2022 at 03:48 PM. Reason: added info
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