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Thread: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

  1. #141

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    What the Hell?!?!? I can't win a Custom battle as the gohma no matter how hard I try or tactic I use.

    So much for balance!!!!

    Edit:
    To explain more.
    1 army vs 1 army. Same money amount to spend on troops. I let the ai pick their units. And no matter what I try. I loss.
    I do my testing on the grass land plan. Hyrule Field I think it's called. The fist map to pick in custom battles.

    Edit2:
    Can anyone confirm this? And post their findings here.
    If you can win though. I want to know how.
    Last edited by Eldren; March 28, 2016 at 05:57 PM.

  2. #142
    Soron's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldren View Post
    If you can win though. I want to know how.

    By abusing Sulkaris

  3. #143

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Then I highly invite you to Victor(ie)s Balancing Crew. We just need Nephs Blessings (and some files - dont know which one exactly Victor wants to have) to crush out the last remaining injustices of this mod .

  4. #144

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    http://images.akamai.steamuserconten...7B40130A7029E/

    Tried 6K each of me and Lifalfos.

    In ranged combat, my Unlocalised Placement Texts failed to fire. Armogohma failed to fire, they also apparently have 1 ranged damage...? Some losses created by hostile Catapults, but heavier losses from two squads Bird Catchers who were not dispersed despite the amount of artillery I'm apparently fielding.

    In close combat, was over very quickly. Larvae hit first, routed quickly after. Armogohma didn't survive to reach melee range at all, the Long Legs barely entered melee. Shield and Pincer Gohma had some staying power, but not still routed before I hit 40% total losses. Caused less than 10% losses in total.

    My thoughts are - Low stats, especially damage stats. No good ranged units, or at least nothing I can rely on to disperse ranged enemies or lay suppressive fire on infantry with. Melee staying power lacking as a result, but mainly due to cowardly Larvae precipitating a rout early. They may be useful as a flanking move, but i'd still be letting them rout in sight of my Pincer and Shields.

    Overall, its certainly the lack of damage potential that's letting them down I think, shortly followed by lack of staying power.


    @Nihilem
    We need a full list of the Attributes (stat modifiers) to apply to the units, and Neph's most up to date EDU. Plus a briefing from Neph on which rosters he needs to do roster or model changes to.

    Provided this project gets the go ahead, I'll start assembling a list of those interested and begin work on a spreadsheet of doom to apply the stats for us.
    Taram Chalco - Elizabeth Westcliffe - Kesaris - Erika Homewood - Kalian Benton Galhansen

    --The Infinite Notebook of Perpetually Unfinished Squirrel Sketches--

  5. #145

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    You should perhaps write him an PM, before the "masses" forgot that they wanted to help .

    Also I`m trying to read a little bit into Battle Ai manipulation (mostly from Darth Vader). So please also ask him if we are allowed to play with that too.

  6. #146
    Soron's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    personally i find the Armogohma very strong, even if they are buggy and sometimes decide they don't want to shoot anymore for no reason...


    and asside from that i didn't see a problem with the Gohma, at least in freeform.



    but..... What is the use of the Shroud Walkers??

  7. #147

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    I have a topic I would like to Discuss with you all, as well as with Neph.

    In the future.
    Will there be unique ways to get income that are faction specific?

    Here is a list I thought of for some options.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    1) Slave labor:
    (I'm not sure how this should/could be implemented. Maybe something similar to ruin/relic income)
    Factions that get this are:
    For Shiekah. Because of brain washing.
    For Lybrynna. Because of Tokya slaves and/or other possible slaves.
    For the Stalfos. Because of mindless workers.
    Maybe for the Gohma too. For the same reason as the Stalfos.

    2) Religious Donations:
    (Given By the masses. I guess it would work like; X chance of getting X amount per X time/turn.)
    Factions that get this are:
    The Wizzrobes would have this. As well as the Darknuts.
    They both have quite a fallowing. And are a Religious Organization. Whether they admit it or not.
    Not sure who else gets this though. Maybe the Kingdom of Hyrule and Fairies of Tarm. But I'm not sure.

    3) Raiding income:
    (If you attack a settlement and/or army. Whether you win or retreat, You get X chance of getting X amount per X# of units doing the attack. But the raid fails if you have no troops alive after battle. I say X# because other wise you just send armies of 1 unit to attack and run. And it would be a bad idea to make a big army attack with out this.)
    Factions that get this are:
    Gerudo, Moblins, Lizalfos and Zalo. I'm not sure who else.

    4) Hunters and Gathers:
    (This is the income gained through the masses Huntering and Gathering in large scale. gain X amount over X time/turns. But can also boost the income gain through some thing similar to how Fair grounds or Lon Lon Racing works. You click on button, some thing happens. I have never used it my self sadly. )
    Factions that get this are:
    Kirroki, Deku tribes and Lizalfos. Not sure who else.

    5) Racing Tournament:
    (Not sure how this would work. Maybe like Lon Lon Racing.)
    Not sure who would get this. Maybe many factions.

    6) Arena/Colosseum income.
    (I guess it would work like Lon Lon Racing event.)
    Moblins and Darknuts. Not sure who else.

    7) Brothels:
    (X chance of getting X amount per X time/turn.)
    For Gerudo. Not sure if for Zora.

    8) Payed Healing:
    (X chance of getting X amount per X time/turn.)
    For Zoras and Faireis.


    @ all.
    I'm pretty sure I'm missing a bunch. Can people expand on this topic.
    And I don't know how much I missed from the HTW Faction Guides:

    http://undyingnephalim.deviantart.co...erpt-589689214
    http://undyingnephalim.deviantart.co...erpt-596226384
    Last edited by Eldren; April 08, 2016 at 02:21 PM.

  8. #148
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Couldn't slaves and religious donations be made into resources that can then be exploited using a certain building, akin to how mines (and the resources they exploit, ex. gold) work? F'rex, a 'potential slaves' resource near a large settlement like Hyrule Prime where a prospective slave-taking faction like the Labrynna can build a 'slave pits' building that exploits said 'potential slaves' resource for income, and either modifying a KoH religious building (ex. the Goddess Cathedral one) to add an income generating effect pegged to a 'large number of faithful' resource or making a new building that does just that (an offering box or office, I guess). This is all assuming of course that there's no hardcoded limit to resources or that if there is, those limits haven't been met yet.

    Raiding settlements...don't you already get money from sacking/exterminating them? I have no answer as to whether it's possible to do the same with armies.

    The rest sound like they could just be made into faction-specific but otherwise ordinary income-boosting buildings with side-effects (ex. increasing happiness for brothels, increasing health/population growth for healers). EB2 managed to get Coliseums and races working in M2TW the same way they did in RTW (basically, building a Coliseum or some other faction-appropriate building like the Nemean Games in Sparta would add an option to hold games with varying frequency just under the option to set the settlement's taxes) as well, so presumably it should be possible to have say, the racing tournament building simultaneously having that + income generation as its effects.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    As Neph didnt seem to answer here, I just startet my own balance pass

    One thing which I recognized and which is extremly annoying is the Gerudo Glaives will rout extremly fast. Even when attacked by really cheap units. Does anyone know why? In the EDU they seem to have the same moral stats then Marauder, which break not so easily after being charged.

    Also is there any information on the "druid" trait? Because I wanted to test its efficency, but have no idea how far its reach is. Or what its actually does ^^.

  10. #150

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilem View Post
    As Neph didnt seem to answer here, I just startet my own balance pass

    One thing which I recognized and which is extremly annoying is the Gerudo Glaives will rout extremly fast. Even when attacked by really cheap units. Does anyone know why? In the EDU they seem to have the same moral stats then Marauder, which break not so easily after being charged.

    Also is there any information on the "druid" trait? Because I wanted to test its efficency, but have no idea how far its reach is. Or what its actually does ^^.
    Look here.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...abilities-work

    And you should give the UnitTemplates.txt file a read as well. You can find that with the HTW files here.
    E:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Medieval II Total War\mods\Hyrule\data

    Lastly, the traits for several faction unit rosters are around some where. It maybe in this thread or a different thread.
    Last edited by Eldren; April 14, 2016 at 05:04 PM.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Can an "hero"-unit be multiple times in an army? Or is that prevented by the game?

    Well of course the hero we have are unique, but would it be possible to generate a hero unit that can be build multiple times?

  12. #152
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    In Custom Battles, there can be multiple of them in one army, but Neph made it where if you use more than one, its cost goes up beyond the max money you can have in a battle.

    In the Freeform Campaign, they are unique generals, so you can't train more of them.

  13. #153

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Ok thanks. But the cost thing can be easily undone. Is there any trick to create a unit with an hero ability multiple times in Freeform Campaign?

  14. #154

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilem View Post
    Ok thanks. But the cost thing can be easily undone. Is there any trick to create a unit with an hero ability multiple times in Freeform Campaign?
    There are some hero abilities that can be used multiple times. But as to how that works. I sadly have no idea.
    You could possibly reverse engineer the code for that. If you found where the hero ability codes are located at.
    Can any one else answer/help with this question?
    Last edited by Eldren; April 15, 2016 at 11:58 AM.

  15. #155

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Well I know where the hero abilities are located. And the number of uses is an variable inside the code - that is easy.

    The question is if an Unit that has such kind of ability, can be present multiple times in one army in freeform campaign.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Im not 100% what you mean but if its that you can have more than one hero ability in an army then yes you can, provided the general has one and they stay alive
    Sign the petition to remove the hardcoded limits from M2TW
    https://www.change.org/p/creative-as...t_created=true

  17. #157

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Ok so when I give (just for example)the Stalfos Scyth Lords the hero ability "Protection of Death" (which I also have to write myself but thats not important) will I still be able to run around in Freeform Campaign with 3 Scythe Lord regiments in ONE army?

  18. #158

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    i think hero ability must be give to general per script, so you could give only genral schytlords the ability wich you named in the script

  19. #159

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Hey, I have an idea to spice up the Stalfos a little bit and want to discuss that with you (and also ask some question about the implementation because I am a noob in scripting.)

    So the basic problem I want to tackle is that because of the lock_morale trait you have to kill EVERY SINGLE SKELETON to end an battle. Which is quite annoying when you know that you have won a battle and just have to fast forward while drinking a coffee ... or eating dinner or so. Exspecially when the AI decides to retreat and plays cat and mouse with you.

    Therefore I thought about a way to solve this and also give the Stalfos a unique touch by copying the crumbling mechanic from Total War: Warhammer. If you dont know what that is - basically it means when your general is dead your army will just fall apart into pieces.

    To implement this I thought about just reducing the defensive stats (in particular the "parry"-stat) of each stalfos unit significantly and to compensate that - give all generals of the stalfos a longlasting ability called "Protection of Death" which basically decreases the combat efficienty of the enemy army by an certain amount. Hopefully this will accomplish that - while the general is alive - the buff and the low defensive stats will cancel each other. When the general dies, the buff will be canceld (well at least I hope it does) and the remaining undead will just be demolished by the enemy troops. As this is a horror to balance (because it seems you cant implemend hero abilities into custom battles - who the hell thought that was a good idea?) this mostlikely will just be for my personal enjoyment .

    So basically I have two questions:

    1.) In the programming reference I found the codes for checking if an unit is an general and to spawn characters with custom abilities. Unfortunately the spawn command is only described for named characters. Does it also work for "normal" generals or do I really have to think about enough general names to make every general that is ever build into a named one?

    2.) in my research I found out that the AI does not use hero abilities. But it seems to be possible to change that with code (at least AI mods like ReallyBadAI claim that). Which AI modifications where made to H:TW? Does the AI use Hero Abilities on Cooldown? Never witness anything like that in my campaigns and - as I said - in custom battles they do not exist.

    I am also sure that the right implementation of hero abilities on generals might give flavor more flavor to the races. And probably solve one or two problems that they might have.

    When I made this effect work, I will try some stuff with the darknuts - which seem to have problems with archers and fast units. Already have two ideas:

    Champions Degree: Lock the morale of the enemy army on impetous - so that they are actually attacking you instead of barricading themselves on their hills. Not so sure about this because impetous seems not really reliable - never witness such an unit to actually attack without order. But I am really interested how impetous works with archers which are on skirmish mode.

    Ancestral Voice: Low Cooldown Ability which causes units_infighting with a low percentage - You can basically stun an enemy unit for an short duration. Probably hard for the AI to make use of this, but an interesting option for the player.

  20. #160

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilem View Post
    Hey, I have an idea to spice up the Stalfos a little bit and want to discuss that with you (and also ask some question about the implementation because I am a noob in scripting.)

    So the basic problem I want to tackle is that because of the lock_morale trait you have to kill EVERY SINGLE SKELETON to end an battle. Which is quite annoying when you know that you have won a battle and just have to fast forward while drinking a coffee ... or eating dinner or so. Exspecially when the AI decides to retreat and plays cat and mouse with you.

    Therefore I thought about a way to solve this and also give the Stalfos a unique touch by copying the crumbling mechanic from Total War: Warhammer. If you dont know what that is - basically it means when your general is dead your army will just fall apart into pieces.

    To implement this I thought about just reducing the defensive stats (in particular the "parry"-stat) of each stalfos unit significantly and to compensate that - give all generals of the stalfos a longlasting ability called "Protection of Death" which basically decreases the combat efficienty of the enemy army by an certain amount. Hopefully this will accomplish that - while the general is alive - the buff and the low defensive stats will cancel each other. When the general dies, the buff will be canceld (well at least I hope it does) and the remaining undead will just be demolished by the enemy troops. As this is a horror to balance (because it seems you cant implemend hero abilities into custom battles - who the hell thought that was a good idea?) this mostlikely will just be for my personal enjoyment .

    So basically I have two questions:

    1.) In the programming reference I found the codes for checking if an unit is an general and to spawn characters with custom abilities. Unfortunately the spawn command is only described for named characters. Does it also work for "normal" generals or do I really have to think about enough general names to make every general that is ever build into a named one?

    2.) in my research I found out that the AI does not use hero abilities. But it seems to be possible to change that with code (at least AI mods like ReallyBadAI claim that). Which AI modifications where made to H:TW? Does the AI use Hero Abilities on Cooldown? Never witness anything like that in my campaigns and - as I said - in custom battles they do not exist.

    I am also sure that the right implementation of hero abilities on generals might give flavor more flavor to the races. And probably solve one or two problems that they might have.

    When I made this effect work, I will try some stuff with the darknuts - which seem to have problems with archers and fast units. Already have two ideas:

    Champions Degree: Lock the morale of the enemy army on impetous - so that they are actually attacking you instead of barricading themselves on their hills. Not so sure about this because impetous seems not really reliable - never witness such an unit to actually attack without order. But I am really interested how impetous works with archers which are on skirmish mode.

    Ancestral Voice: Low Cooldown Ability which causes units_infighting with a low percentage - You can basically stun an enemy unit for an short duration. Probably hard for the AI to make use of this, but an interesting option for the player.
    This sounds like it has Potential.

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