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Thread: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

  1. #121

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Hey Neph.
    I think your missing a few types.
    What about support units? And units that put down sand bags? Also aren't there different types of artillery and Siege engines?
    There is a kikorki statue that gives a moral buff for example...... What type does that fall under by the way? O and what about ballista's And shrap metal Flingers? What do they fall under? For crying out load there is so many different times of artillery and Siege engines in this game.
    Hmmm.... Besides that... I think I'm missing some more unit types there.
    O...... Neph!
    We can expand that roster And make cool units by making certain units always get a General with an ability.
    Custom abilities for each unit in game would be awesome!

    Edit:
    I'm Glad there is going to be 3 types/styles of ranged units.
    Strike, Suppressive Fire and Harassment.
    Last edited by Eldren; March 04, 2016 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    I think the amount of different generals will be also hardcoded limited ....


    But we could try to fit the existing units into these new roles. How does the roles coexist with the templates and attributes?

  3. #123

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Hello all, I suspect I might be posting this in the wrong place, but the entire development section is full of ded-threds that haven't been posted in for months. My topic is basically balance anyway.

    The Stalfos are pretty much broken as a faction. Not really in stats or abilities, but economy. Every Stalfos unit costs the same, 300 rupees, unless they are elite units, which cost 600. There is no reason to buy Staltroops when Battleforged do more for the same amount, which is still ridiculously draining on your finances. A Hylian knight costs 130 upkeep per turn. Every non-elite Stalfos costs 150. For a faction about endless hordes of undead, they can barely field the units they get at the beginning of the campaign. You start the game in a state of financial free-fall, so you can either try to blitz every rebel town near y

  4. #124

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Hello all. I hope I'm not posting this in the wrong thread, but the development section is nothing but ded-threds and I was really hoping I could get a reply for my question.

    Why are the Stalfos so expensive?
    Everything costs 300 rupees to recruit, unless it's something advanced which cost 600 rupees. There is no difference between recruiting Staltroops and Battleforged, and all the basic units cost 150 upkeep per turn. Compare this to Hylian Knights, which cost 130 upkeep, and it's apparent that you will never be able to field anything close to being an undead horde. Your campaign starts in a state of financial free-fall, so it's either blitz every rebel settlement around you or disband all your troops and let Stallford and Onox fight every battle. As it is I don't think the Stalfos campaign is playable without a money hack every 5 turns.

    Please forgive me if this is the wrong thread, but I want to make sure someone sees this. I can't find anyone else posting about this. Is it just me?

  5. #125

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Based on our discussions here:
    HTW Council Hotseat - Pitch / Discussion Thread

    I just wanted to re-post some thing of concern/interest for this thread.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldren View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Soron View Post
    If Sheika win then we need to either cheat or to play in easy difficulty if we don't want to have a -3000 dept while hyrule attack our capital at turn 8.
    As the Sheika;
    If you send your troops to attack what ever Hyrule is attacking. Then your reputation with Hyrule will rise. And Hyrule will never attack you. At least that's how it worked for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeford View Post
    Guys, you sense you all have a specific job to do whatever faction you take needs actually have an economy, buldings, settlements, ect. Otherwise, most of you won't have a lot to do.

    If you play as a faction like the Stalfos, then this won't work, they don't have an economy or a real empire or buildings.

    And I am not sure the Shiekah would be good either. I don't quite remember how they have changed, but I still wouldn't bet on them working very well or being able to take on other empires in a fight.
    We may want to wait until Neph releases the next version of HTW. Which will buff the economy of each faction in several ways. Like changing the cost of Troop Recruitment and troop upkeep. Plus other ways. Like what is stated with the Gerudo. And on the matter of Gerudo. They will probably play differently when the new version of HTW comes out.

    Hopefully, These planned changes will be applied to all factions in the next update. And not just to a few factions. Because the current version of HTW is a bit...... Problematic as it is. I my self am looking forward to the changes to all faction. Because I like what Neph has Presented so far for The Kingdom of Hyrule and the Gerudo. Also I like so far the other changes Neph has "show cased" for the Gohma and other factions.

    So then about this. When will the next version of this Balance Pass go in to effect. And will it be for all factions or just some?

    Edit:
    This is another reason why I think all factions should get the new planned balance pass together. And not just a hand full of factions at a time.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by Royal MidKnight View Post
    Hello all, I suspect I might be posting this in the wrong place, but the entire development section is full of ded-threds that haven't been posted in for months. My topic is basically balance anyway.

    The Stalfos are pretty much broken as a faction. Not really in stats or abilities, but economy. Every Stalfos unit costs the same, 300 rupees, unless they are elite units, which cost 600. There is no reason to buy Staltroops when Battleforged do more for the same amount, which is still ridiculously draining on your finances. A Hylian knight costs 130 upkeep per turn. Every non-elite Stalfos costs 150. For a faction about endless hordes of undead, they can barely field the units they get at the beginning of the campaign. You start the game in a state of financial free-fall, so you can either try to blitz every rebel town near y
    Quote Originally Posted by Royal MidKnight View Post
    Hello all. I hope I'm not posting this in the wrong thread, but the development section is nothing but ded-threds and I was really hoping I could get a reply for my question.

    Why are the Stalfos so expensive?
    Everything costs 300 rupees to recruit, unless it's something advanced which cost 600 rupees. There is no difference between recruiting Staltroops and Battleforged, and all the basic units cost 150 upkeep per turn. Compare this to Hylian Knights, which cost 130 upkeep, and it's apparent that you will never be able to field anything close to being an undead horde. Your campaign starts in a state of financial free-fall, so it's either blitz every rebel settlement around you or disband all your troops and let Stallford and Onox fight every battle. As it is I don't think the Stalfos campaign is playable without a money hack every 5 turns.

    Please forgive me if this is the wrong thread, but I want to make sure someone sees this. I can't find anyone else posting about this. Is it just me?
    Last edited by Eldren; March 20, 2016 at 12:40 PM.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldren View Post
    Based on our discussions here:
    HTW Council Hotseat - Pitch / Discussion Thread

    I just wanted to re-post some thing of concern/interest for this thread.

    So then about this. When will the next version of this Balance Pass go in to effect. And will it be for all factions or just some?

    Edit:
    This is another reason why I think all factions should get the new planned balance pass together. And not just a hand full of factions at a time.
    I second this. I'd also like to know if there's any possibility of Neph building a team of volunteers for balance testing - some band of unlikely heroes armed with a couple of spreadsheets and a prototypical EDU who can go about fixing up units, updating tooltips, and testing the new balance to within an inch of it's metaphorical life...

    This group doesn't need to be big, and it doesn't need a lot of organisation to get it started, it just needs:
    --access to what parts of the current balance pass has already been done
    --knowledge of which factions are:
    -----done (meaning they have the new stats and seem to work);
    -----have their attributes selected but not applied to the stats (meaning the ones the balance volunteers can work on without much additional input);
    -----which factions will need changes to their unit roster (usually involves changes that are are best left to those who know what they're doing);
    -----and which factions haven't been appraised yet (meaning Neph still needs to make decisions on this, but the balance people might be able to provide some help).
    --A little corner of the internet to use as a project workspace type thingy - I think a google doc will work perfectly well.

    The plan would then be:
    --Neph releases the finished attributes list and new units (if applicable) to the balance people
    --Balance people convert the attributes list into EDU entries, using the unit class templates, and do a basic test to make sure everything is bug-free.
    --Balance people draw up a schedule of balance tests to see if the unit is appropriately capable in combat, and to make sure it fits in with the faction's wider playstyle. KoH is used as the benchmark.
    -----(additionaly they draw up a list of quirks that any particular unit displays, such as the infamous Tanky Homeguards and Melee Hylian Crossbowmen of the old stats, and discuss outcomes with Neph)
    --If the units are deemed appropriate and balanced, they are finished, touches are made to cosmetic items like flavour text, and the faction is considered complete.

    This should be possible with a group of 2-5 part-time volunteers, employing our Glorious Leader as the project lead rather than as the whole team himself.

    I'm not sure how much time it would save on the current system, but it would definitely mean taking the manual and relatively uncomplicated work like rewriting the EDU or doing the same custom battle again and again, off of Neph's workload. And provided files are shared as frequently as possible, we can minimise any time or effort lost by people dropping out.

    What do we think?
    Taram Chalco - Elizabeth Westcliffe - Kesaris - Erika Homewood - Kalian Benton Galhansen

    --The Infinite Notebook of Perpetually Unfinished Squirrel Sketches--

  7. #127

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Good Gosh, I thought that first version of my post had deleted or something. Oh well, it was the better draft anyway, if incomplete. Sorry.

  8. #128

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Volunteer for that balance team proposal.

    Sadly, I have now idea how to change units ..... -.-
    But if its just testing the same battle over and over while looking for bugs and unfun elements i can do that.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    That is exactly what we need. I like to think that I have a decent idea of how units generally should act and how their stats affect that, which would mean that I could be the one modifying the stats. However, I am not good at generating spreadsheets and due to IRL factors, my capability of contributing may vary depending of whether I am busy with another thing or not. I know how to modify the units, projectiles and buildings files, but I can't do a thing to the animations. Long story short, I believe I could be able to help in the project.

  10. #130

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Teknokraatti View Post
    That is exactly what we need. I like to think that I have a decent idea of how units generally should act and how their stats affect that, which would mean that I could be the one modifying the stats. However, I am not good at generating spreadsheets and due to IRL factors, my capability of contributing may vary depending of whether I am busy with another thing or not. I know how to modify the units, projectiles and buildings files, but I can't do a thing to the animations. Long story short, I believe I could be able to help in the project.
    I'm in a similar boat. But I have some experience with animation types/sets. At least if it has to do with the battle_models.modeldb file.
    Also the UnitTemplates.txt file is self explanatory. And easy to understand and implement.

  11. #131
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Two months. Two months and then I can get back to modding.

    Soon, my sweets. Sooon...

  12. #132

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    If people want to learn some basic modding skills I thoroughly recommend seeing this guys channel

    https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC8HWk4BpT_AP4tTGjF4O4GA

    He is the modding leader of Divide & Conquer and he has a load of modding guides/tutorials, including one on editing unit stats. Plus he has some cool DAC playthroughs and some very enjoyable middle earth lore videos which I recommend as well
    Sign the petition to remove the hardcoded limits from M2TW
    https://www.change.org/p/creative-as...t_created=true

  13. #133

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    After watching the tutorials ..... these edu changes doesnt seem to complicated .

    So Victor, as you are the one who started this, do you want to organize this "balance group"?

  14. #134

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilem View Post
    After watching the tutorials ..... these edu changes doesnt seem to complicated .

    So Victor, as you are the one who started this, do you want to organize this "balance group"?
    All hail Victor! And Victory be to you!

  15. #135
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilem View Post
    After watching the tutorials ..... these edu changes doesnt seem to complicated .
    Nah, it's cheese. Easiest part of M2TW modding, in my opinion. Any needed help, send a pm my way and I'll be happy to oblige.

    The true terror comes from importing skeletons and animations from other mods. Ooooh, that process can be tedious.

  16. #136

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    So is all this in V 4.0 that I just downloaded last night? Sorry if it was said already, I must have missed it.

  17. #137

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldren View Post
    All hail Victor! And Victory be to you!
    We need Neph's blessing (and more importantly his files) in order to actually do this, but I'm happy to try and run things if it goes ahead.
    Taram Chalco - Elizabeth Westcliffe - Kesaris - Erika Homewood - Kalian Benton Galhansen

    --The Infinite Notebook of Perpetually Unfinished Squirrel Sketches--

  18. #138

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    I dont think he will have a problem that a bunch of people will try to help him with that really interesting and exciting task like bugfixing and balancing .... completly for free .....

    But I have to agree that we need some kind of clarification what the task and the freedom of the community force shall be. Obviously the last word is always by Neph himself ( as he can just not implement whatever we suggest) but I think it is a good idea for the testers to play a little bit with the units to see if we have some ideas that might be positive for the gameplay.

    With the new role System (does the templates described on page 1 still hold?) we should first ask Neph what we are actually allowed to change (in the sense of: it is open to discussion and changes have a possibility of being implemented).

    - Nothing but stats (and bugs of course ^^)?
    - Attributes and Templates when we feel they dont fit?
    - Roles?
    - Suggestions for whole new units?
    - General feeling of units?
    - General feeling of the whole faction?

    Afterwards we should think about some kind of structure for this group. Otherwise we end the same as the guys from a few pages before who where just ignored ^^. If you want to be leader could you please write an PM to everyone who offered help in this thread (in the last month) if that still counts? I think it will make things much easier if we have a list of names of participants.

    Also I think some kind of discussion on how we want to tackle this task would be nice. I suggest an TS-Conference, but as we most likely come from different time zones - propably an own thread? Dont want to spam this one with group discussions .

  19. #139

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Forget the pms ^^.

    When I see that correctly the volunteers are you, eldren, tedster and me.

    PS: How many posts do you need to "unlock" the edit function ..... -.-

  20. #140
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    You have to have 25 posts and have been a member for a week.

    It's to prevent spamming and troll accounts.

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