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Thread: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Teknokraatti View Post
    @JoonasTo

    I see your point and you are decidedly correct about the HTWs spearmen. Still, I think that the mod would benefit from a couple of heavier spear units, even if buffed somewhat artificially. Will do some testing with it.

    Again, wikipedia isn't wrong, but 20-25 kg range consists almost exclusively of tournament jousting armour, which is designed to be extremely durable and stiff in order to reduce the chance of accidental injuries. Chosing to don such a suite to battle would however be quite suicidal, especially with anything resembling the frogface helm. Another point is, that while wikipedia doesn't mention it, this weight range represents heavy armour. Considering that the classical armouring on an armoured pikeman weighted from 7 to 9 kgs and consisted of open-face helmet, breastplate, tassets and maybe half-gauntlets. I could go and do some serious changes but that would require me to search and link credible sources for the armour weight and properties, which I currently am too lazy to do. ^^
    Completely agree. At the moment some factions have no way of standing up to a goron charge, for example.
    I've done kind of half-assed middle solution(as has neph) with giving all of the factions main spearmen the spear value and a large spear bonus. This works with cavalry. But as long as their spears remain short it is impossible to make them act like proper spearmen vs heavy units charging them and keep them working properly against normal infantry. Maybe I should specify that a bit. It's not like long spear units with high mass would work any differently vs infantry but it would look a lot more reasonable that people with a wall of spears keep charging hylian knights at a distance compared to kokiri mudmen standing up to them in melee

    Ah, laziness, that creator of all good inventions, how it tests us sometimes...

  2. #102

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    @Eldren

    Can't really understand why you need me to test the units as nothing prevents you from doing it as far as I am aware. Anyways.

    You really don't need me telling you what their stats are, but it is kind of interesting that both Conjurers and Golems used to have ranged attack and thus were hybrid infantry. As the Conjurers had just Javelins, the golems suffered far more as their attack had greater range and the animation was a lot more efficient. However, without their ranged attacks they still serve an infantry role in their respective factions, both of which have relatively poor melee capabilities. These units mitigate the disadvantage. While the golems win the conjurers every time, I would say the conjurers are still more valuable for their "scares all enemies" attribute, as the ability to rout enemy units is usually what makes or breaks the battle.

    Things aren't so simple with Beam Golems and Crystal Golems. Crystals most of the time beat the beams because of the greater range of their projectile. This is of course very useful for siege battles too. Beam golems, however are much more durable in melee and will easily kill the crystal golems if the get the chance to close the distance without being fired upon. They fulfill a different role. However, as I demonstrated with the crystal golems earlier, they certainly hold their own in melee too. Even so well that I am not sure whether the Wizzrobe of all factions really should have that good melee units.

    BTW, I wouldn't automatically assume they have the same combat role just because they happen to be constructs. Effectively all stalfos in the new Stalfos roster are constructs too, which doesn't mean that they are similar to golems or conjurers. Similarly here: conjurers are shock infantry, while golems are line infantry and crystal golems like long-range bombardment opposed to the beam golems that take it up, close and personal.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Teknokraatti View Post
    @Eldren

    Can't really understand why you need me to test the units as nothing prevents you from doing it as far as I am aware. Anyways.

    You really don't need me telling you what their stats are, but it is kind of interesting that both Conjurers and Golems used to have ranged attack and thus were hybrid infantry. As the Conjurers had just Javelins, the golems suffered far more as their attack had greater range and the animation was a lot more efficient. However, without their ranged attacks they still serve an infantry role in their respective factions, both of which have relatively poor melee capabilities. These units mitigate the disadvantage. While the golems win the conjurers every time, I would say the conjurers are still more valuable for their "scares all enemies" attribute, as the ability to rout enemy units is usually what makes or breaks the battle.

    Things aren't so simple with Beam Golems and Crystal Golems. Crystals most of the time beat the beams because of the greater range of their projectile. This is of course very useful for siege battles too. Beam golems, however are much more durable in melee and will easily kill the crystal golems if the get the chance to close the distance without being fired upon. They fulfill a different role. However, as I demonstrated with the crystal golems earlier, they certainly hold their own in melee too. Even so well that I am not sure whether the Wizzrobe of all factions really should have that good melee units.

    BTW, I wouldn't automatically assume they have the same combat role just because they happen to be constructs. Effectively all stalfos in the new Stalfos roster are constructs too, which doesn't mean that they are similar to golems or conjurers. Similarly here: conjurers are shock infantry, while golems are line infantry and crystal golems like long-range bombardment opposed to the beam golems that take it up, close and personal.
    Thanks for telling me all this.

    And ya, I should be testing this my self. I just haven't had the time.
    And I was hoping to get your opinion of them. Since you have good Observations and give good feedback.

    And I wasn't aware that the golems had no ranged attack now. Neph at least for 1 unit, accidentally took out their ranged attack. It was the conjurers.
    And I found out that the Battle chariots only have 1 rider. And no archers/crossbowmen. Even though they are a Ranged unit according to the game.
    So considering those 2 units and golems. Maybe there are a few units that were accidentally changed By Neph. Unintentionally.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    So one said the Wolfos rider was doing really bad as a unit. And I know why.
    All normal cavalry has only the rider attacking. And the rider only attacks what he can reach as a model. Most Riders only attack to the side of their horse Because of that. if they have a sword that is.

    Now look at and watch the Wolfos rider in a custom battle. The Rider is Small With short reach. And the Wolfos Hogs the front of the Rider like a Shield Or as if you were sitting on a Triangle point with the base in front of you facing the enemy.

    I Noticed that all cavalry does better if they have a spear in one hand. Based on the battles I did for the KotGL mod.
    We had 2 normal cavalry units. A chariot unit. And one Hero cavalry unit.
    The 2 normal cavalry units. Acted and did the same as all the other normal cav units in HTW. But the Hero unit who all the riders had spears. Did really Great in a melee. Because they could attack the enemy over their horses heads and not have to wait to get the enemy on their left or right side before they could attack them.

    So the Wolfos rider is going the opposite way. They need a Spear To make them be able to fight at least like the other cavalry units in game. Look at their model. They are Kiroki. Their already short.
    So why give them Daggers?!??!?!

    Edit:
    Another idea is to make the Wolfos rider and other carnivore mounts have 2 riders. 1 is the standard Rider. The Other is the Head of the mount.
    Do it like you did for the Stalhound. And then the mount it self will seem to be attacking as well.

    Edit2:
    Or if you can only have one rider model. make the second rider Just under ground in front of the carnivore mount. They will attack the enemy just like any other rider. But they will never be seen. But the problem with this is that the carnivore mount will still stand there like a horse.
    Last edited by Eldren; January 23, 2016 at 08:12 PM.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Wishing to hear additional informed opinions is as good reason as any, I guess. I'm glad you found my information useful. As you commented on the bug thread, the golems are still considered to be missile infantry even though they lack the ranged attack. This suggests that they were indeed changed without intention.

    About the wolfos: You are aware that horse cavalry can only have 1 rider, right? Only elephants can have more. Thus it would mean that either we get rid of the Kokiri riders, leave them to be just a static part of the model or search a completely unrelated fix.

    However, while technically giving the wolfos riders spears or lances wouldn't be a horrible idea, i'm still opposed to it. Lances, while being relatively simple to use, are the biggest and heaviest of all melee weapons, excluding pike. It would be hard for a small-framed person such as a kokiri to properly hold and use the lance while riding a horse, let alone a wolf, which has vastly more flexible spine than a horse and is thus much less stable runner. Dagger, on the other hand is light, short and maneuverable. The job of the kokiri isn't to do the main fighting anyways, more like protecting the wolfos from rear and side attacks.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Teknokraatti View Post
    Wishing to hear additional informed opinions is as good reason as any, I guess. I'm glad you found my information useful. As you commented on the bug thread, the golems are still considered to be missile infantry even though they lack the ranged attack. This suggests that they were indeed changed without intention.

    About the wolfos: You are aware that horse cavalry can only have 1 rider, right? Only elephants can have more. Thus it would mean that either we get rid of the Kokiri riders, leave them to be just a static part of the model or search a completely unrelated fix.

    However, while technically giving the wolfos riders spears or lances wouldn't be a horrible idea, i'm still opposed to it. Lances, while being relatively simple to use, are the biggest and heaviest of all melee weapons, excluding pike. It would be hard for a small-framed person such as a kokiri to properly hold and use the lance while riding a horse, let alone a wolf, which has vastly more flexible spine than a horse and is thus much less stable runner. Dagger, on the other hand is light, short and maneuverable. The job of the kokiri isn't to do the main fighting anyways, more like protecting the wolfos from rear and side attacks.
    The aim is to extend the rider's reach past the mount' head, rather than to grant the rider a superheavy charging weapon. A smallish, lightweight spear would provide the Kokiri rider with a means to actually hit hit an enemy in melee (which I can't really picture being possible with a dagger and on a Wolfos, anyway), while retaining much of the low carry weight and ease of mass production.
    Taram Chalco - Elizabeth Westcliffe - Kesaris - Erika Homewood - Kalian Benton Galhansen

    --The Infinite Notebook of Perpetually Unfinished Squirrel Sketches--

  7. #107

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    I don't exactly understand how a spear is a light weapon. Weapons weight is directly proportional to its volume and unless some very light but uselessly brittle materials are used, a spear will always be heavier than a dagger, sword, mace or longsword. Light spear might be as heavy as greatsword, but usually spears are significantly heavier. Combine that with unstable mount and relatively diminutive size for a humanoid. Even when not charging, the weakness of arm and liveliness of mount still pose their problems.

    However, I am only sounding my opinion. I do not claim it to be right and the wolfos definitely are unremarkable in melee.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    In this case realism may just have to take a back seat to making the unit actually function. It could always be explained away with magic or some special wood unique to the LoZ universe like Deku Sticks that's light enough for them to wield.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    @ JoonasTo.
    How goes your Balance sub mod?



    @ Neph.
    Do you have any more factions and their units to add to this list yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    1 Town Guard
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Police (Unit can maintain public order in stationed city)


    2 Recruit
    - Operator (Can operate siege engines)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    3 Mounted Recruit
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    4 Infantry
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Reserves (Unit can be replenished faster)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    5 Crossbowmen
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Back Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Reserves (Unit can be replenished faster)


    6 Castle Guard
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Tower Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)


    7 Knight
    - Hylian Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)


    8 Flail Knight
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)


    9 Mounted Knight
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Hylian Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)


    10 Iron Clad
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Secondary Polearm (Resistant to Cavalry)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)


    11 Trebuchet
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)


    12 Repeater Crossbow
    - Rapid Fire (Unit can fire additional attacks before reloading)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)




    Gerudo


    1 Marauder
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    2 Glaive Grunt
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Police (Unit can maintain public order in stationed city)


    3 Sand Snipers
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Long Range (Unit has double the range of other archers)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)


    4 Gerudadorf
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)


    5 Vagrudanon
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    6 Dune Runners
    - Fire on the Move (Unit can attack while moving)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    - Camouflage (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)


    7 Tomb Guard
    - Mirror Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)


    8 Ice Archer
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)


    9 Wind Witches
    - Magic (Instant Kills to hit enemies)
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Police (Unit can maintain public order in stationed city)


    10 Iron Knuckle
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)
    - No Fear (Unit cannot lose morale and retreat)


    11 Catapult
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)
    - Extra ammo (This unit has a larger store of ammunition than others of its type)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)


    12 Sandblaster
    - Magic (Instant Kills to hit enemies)
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Imposing (Damages morale of non cavalry units)

    A few notes, I think there are several more attributes I'm adding

    - Police: Definitely going to include this in the game. This unit essentially gets its full unit count when dealing with settlement unrest.
    - Numerous: This unit has a slightly higher troop count from its template. I'm not sure what percentage, probably something not too crazy like a 10% increase? Can help some factions deal with Kokiri and Gohma's larger numbers.
    - Reserves: This unit can retrain and replenish losses faster.
    - Easily Trained: Unit will can be trained one turn faster then the train time of its template (which in itself is yet to be finalized)
    - Heavy Siege: This siege weapon is basically geared more towards taking down gates and is inaccurate against troops.
    - Extra ammo: Self explanatory, this unit has more ammo than its template.

    Additionally, I'm tweaking the Exceptionally Trained attribute to also make the unit take a turn longer to create than its template time.
    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Some more finalized attributes for the Gorons, Zora, Kokiri, Gohma, Lanayru Province, and Wizzrobe:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Gorons

    1 Guardian
    - Roll (can move fast, knocks down enemies during charge)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)

    2 Berserker
    - Roll (can move fast, knocks down enemies during charge)
    - Rage (damage morale, but can lose control)
    - Impetuous (Strong morale, may charge enemies without orders)

    3 Bombthrower
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Extra Ammo

    4 Tribal Monk
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    5 Dodongo
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)

    6 Goron Miners
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Operator (Can operate siege engines)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    9 Ruby Guards
    - Ruby Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)

    7 Sumos
    - Roll (can move fast, knocks down enemies during charge)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    8 Rams
    - Power Charge
    - Frighten Foot
    - Trample

    10 Fire Warriors
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    11 Powder Keg Launcher
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)


    12 Flamecannon
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)
    - Extra Ammo

    Zora

    1 Halberdiers
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    X - Aquatic

    2 Mage
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    3 Blademaster
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Numerous
    X - Aquatic

    4 Healer
    - Support: Heal (Keeps troops alive longer, improves morale)
    - Reserves (Unit can be replenished faster)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Aquatic

    5 Octorider
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Power Charge
    X - Aquatic

    6 Sapphire Warden
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Numerous
    X - Aquatic

    7 Shock Trooper
    - Zora Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    X - Aquatic

    8 Bigocto Sparkshots
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    X - Aquatic

    9 Domain Supreme
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    10 Floodmaster
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    11 Mage Cannon
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Heavy Siege
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    12 Siegeocto
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    X - Aquatic

    Kokiri

    1 Detachment
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    2 Minutemen
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    - Operator (Can operate siege engines)
    X - Numerous

    3 Slingshots
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    X - Numerous

    4 Mudmen of Faron
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Impetuous (Strong morale, may charge enemies without orders)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    5 Wolfos Riders
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    X - Numerous

    6 Grove Watchers
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Deku Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    X - Numerous

    7 Emerald Archers
    - Long Range (Unit has double the range of other archers)
    - Melee Weaponry (Unit is also proficient in melee)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    X - Numerous

    8 Korok Council
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    X - Numerous

    9 Deku Trees
    - Stagger
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    X - Numerous

    10 Shrine of Courage
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Police
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    11 Bouldershot
    - Extra Ammo
    - Heavy Siege
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    12 Mudmen Mantlet
    - Mantlet Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Impetuous (Strong morale, may charge enemies without orders)
    X - Numerous


    Gohma


    1 Gohma Larvae
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlment without required building)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    2 Pack of Queens
    - Support: Hive Mind (Keeps troops alive longer, improves morale)
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlment without required building)
    X - Numerous

    3 Royal Larvae
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Nimble
    -
    X - Numerous

    4 Pincergohma
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Peircing Attacks)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    X - Numerous

    5 Gohma Long Legs
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    X - Numerous

    6 Shield Gohma
    - Claw Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    X - Numerous

    7 Hive Keepers
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Fire on the Move (Unit can attack while moving)
    -
    X - Numerous

    8 Shroud Walker
    - Support: Gohma Shroud (Conceals nearby units, damages enemy morale)
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    X - Numerous

    9 Tank Gohma
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    X - Numerous

    10 Acid Sprayer
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    X - Numerous

    11 Armogohma
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Exceptionally Trained
    X - Numerous

    12 Acid Batch
    - Heavy Siege
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    X - Numerous



    Lanayru Province

    1 Conscripts
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlement without required building)

    2 Shore Sentries
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlement without required building)
    - Stealth

    3 Coral Lancers
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Police
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)

    4 Coral Archers
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Extra Ammo
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)

    5 Ocean Guards
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Coral Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)

    6 Aquamarines
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Brave

    7 Coast Riders
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    - Police

    8 Arurodas
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Burrow (Unit is invisible when running)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)

    9 Guardian Maidens
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Exceptionally Trained

    10 Battlecrabs
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Melee Weaponry (Archer becomes Infantry when in Melee)
    - Fire on the Move (Unit can attack while moving)

    11 Coralmold Ballista
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Heavy Siege

    12 Coralmold Flinger
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)



    Wizzrobe

    1 Acolytes
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Skirmisher (Infantry can make one ranged attack before charging)
    - Easily Trained

    2 Pyromancer
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Extra Ammo

    3 Aquamancer
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Aquatic

    4 Electromancer
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)

    5 Geomancer
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Explosive
    - Camouflage

    6 Aeromancer
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Long Range

    7 Hylian Wizard
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Melee Weaponry (Archer becomes Infantry when in Melee)

    8 Illusionist
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Swift
    - Exceptionally Trained

    9 Conjurer
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - No Fear (Unit cannot lose morale and retreat)

    10 Death Wizards
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Imposing

    11 Earth Reaper
    - Heavy Siege
    - Explosive
    - Exceptionally Trained

    12 Crystal Golem
    - No Fear (Unit cannot lose morale and retreat)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Exceptionally Trained


    Another attribute addition:
    - Recruit Anywhere: Can be trained slower in any settlement without required building

  10. #110

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Manhandlites need a buff. They lose to Marauders instantly each and every time. And they also lose to Vagrudanon. But they at least last a little longer against them.

    Orhats have the wrong skin.

    Do Deku Catapults have to over shoot their targets so badly. It flies way out there. And almost all the shots do this. .... Why?
    And just to state, I know they are supposed to have really bad accuracy. But this is a little Ridiculous.
    It's funny at first. But it's not a joke I like to hear all the time. Bad artillery are just bad artillery.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Now that you reminded me Eldren, artillery overshooting has been problem for ages. I remember mentioning it on bug forums somewhere around 3.4, but honestly, I have no idea what causes the problem and how to fix it. AI targeting is supposed to launch the projectile directly at the enemy, of course compensating for the enemys projected movement, but constant overshooting seems to indicate that the perceived point of impact falls shorter than the actual projectiles.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Just downloaded the latest version and had a look around at the campaign map and stuff. Are the units all meant to have similar stats? Comparing the keatons and Darknut Deities they both have attack values of 3. Except for the defence and quantity I can't see this making much sense.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Encablossa View Post
    Just downloaded the latest version and had a look around at the campaign map and stuff. Are the units all meant to have similar stats? Comparing the keatons and Darknut Deities they both have attack values of 3. Except for the defence and quantity I can't see this making much sense.
    I should leave this for Neph to explain.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    The old stats, while more personal, were quite unbalanced. The similar stats are a quick and cost-efficient way to balance the units, though they will certainly be diversified in the future by either UndyingNephalim himself or by submods. I personally like the fact that he lowered the attack stats quite drastically. This means that the battles last a bit longer and aren't quite as quick slaughter as they used to be.

  15. #115
    Civis
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Teknokraatti View Post
    Now that you reminded me Eldren, artillery overshooting has been problem for ages. I remember mentioning it on bug forums somewhere around 3.4, but honestly, I have no idea what causes the problem and how to fix it. AI targeting is supposed to launch the projectile directly at the enemy, of course compensating for the enemys projected movement, but constant overshooting seems to indicate that the perceived point of impact falls shorter than the actual projectiles.
    Have you tried modifying unit range and projectile stats? It could be as simple as that.

  16. #116

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    @ all.
    OK guys. Lets help Neph out a bit with his work.

    Neph wants to redo all units stats to be more like His current Version. But he also hasn't finished all the stat changes for all factions and their units.
    He was or currently is applying Templates or traits to each unit and would like 3 for each unit.
    He currently has 8 factions done, but not all of them are applied to the new version yet.
    As a Refresher, Here they are:
    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Well, I'll look into all the stat changes people have made in a bit. I think I've just about settled on the attributes for all the Hylian and Gerudo units. I forgot to mention it when I made this thread for some reason, but I wanted each unit to be limited to just three attributes each (except for whatever attribute a faction get's overall, such as Zora units automatically being aquatic, Stalfos having no fear, etc)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    1 Town Guard
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Police (Unit can maintain public order in stationed city)


    2 Recruit
    - Operator (Can operate siege engines)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    3 Mounted Recruit
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    4 Infantry
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Reserves (Unit can be replenished faster)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    5 Crossbowmen
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Back Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Reserves (Unit can be replenished faster)


    6 Castle Guard
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Tower Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)


    7 Knight
    - Hylian Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)


    8 Flail Knight
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)


    9 Mounted Knight
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Hylian Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)


    10 Iron Clad
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Secondary Polearm (Resistant to Cavalry)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)


    11 Trebuchet
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)


    12 Repeater Crossbow
    - Rapid Fire (Unit can fire additional attacks before reloading)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)




    Gerudo


    1 Marauder
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    2 Glaive Grunt
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Police (Unit can maintain public order in stationed city)


    3 Sand Snipers
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Long Range (Unit has double the range of other archers)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)


    4 Gerudadorf
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)


    5 Vagrudanon
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)


    6 Dune Runners
    - Fire on the Move (Unit can attack while moving)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    - Camouflage (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)


    7 Tomb Guard
    - Mirror Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)


    8 Ice Archer
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)


    9 Wind Witches
    - Magic (Instant Kills to hit enemies)
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Police (Unit can maintain public order in stationed city)


    10 Iron Knuckle
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)
    - No Fear (Unit cannot lose morale and retreat)


    11 Catapult
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)
    - Extra ammo (This unit has a larger store of ammunition than others of its type)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)


    12 Sandblaster
    - Magic (Instant Kills to hit enemies)
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Imposing (Damages morale of non cavalry units)

    A few notes, I think there are several more attributes I'm adding

    - Police: Definitely going to include this in the game. This unit essentially gets its full unit count when dealing with settlement unrest.
    - Numerous: This unit has a slightly higher troop count from its template. I'm not sure what percentage, probably something not too crazy like a 10% increase? Can help some factions deal with Kokiri and Gohma's larger numbers.
    - Reserves: This unit can retrain and replenish losses faster.
    - Easily Trained: Unit will can be trained one turn faster then the train time of its template (which in itself is yet to be finalized)
    - Heavy Siege: This siege weapon is basically geared more towards taking down gates and is inaccurate against troops.
    - Extra ammo: Self explanatory, this unit has more ammo than its template.

    Additionally, I'm tweaking the Exceptionally Trained attribute to also make the unit take a turn longer to create than its template time.
    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Some more finalized attributes for the Gorons, Zora, Kokiri, Gohma, Lanayru Province, and Wizzrobe:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Gorons

    1 Guardian
    - Roll (can move fast, knocks down enemies during charge)
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)

    2 Berserker
    - Roll (can move fast, knocks down enemies during charge)
    - Rage (damage morale, but can lose control)
    - Impetuous (Strong morale, may charge enemies without orders)

    3 Bombthrower
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Extra Ammo

    4 Tribal Monk
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    5 Dodongo
    - Numerous (Unit has a larger troop count)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)

    6 Goron Miners
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Operator (Can operate siege engines)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    9 Ruby Guards
    - Ruby Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)

    7 Sumos
    - Roll (can move fast, knocks down enemies during charge)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    8 Rams
    - Power Charge
    - Frighten Foot
    - Trample

    10 Fire Warriors
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Piercing Attacks)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)

    11 Powder Keg Launcher
    - Explosive (chance to instantly kill multiple enemies in attack)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)


    12 Flamecannon
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Heavy Siege (Siege Weapon is more accurate and deals more damage to buildings, but much less accurate against moving targets)
    - Extra Ammo

    Zora

    1 Halberdiers
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    X - Aquatic

    2 Mage
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    3 Blademaster
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Numerous
    X - Aquatic

    4 Healer
    - Support: Heal (Keeps troops alive longer, improves morale)
    - Reserves (Unit can be replenished faster)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Aquatic

    5 Octorider
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Power Charge
    X - Aquatic

    6 Sapphire Warden
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Numerous
    X - Aquatic

    7 Shock Trooper
    - Zora Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    X - Aquatic

    8 Bigocto Sparkshots
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    X - Aquatic

    9 Domain Supreme
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    10 Floodmaster
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    11 Mage Cannon
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Heavy Siege
    - Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
    X - Aquatic

    12 Siegeocto
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    X - Aquatic

    Kokiri

    1 Detachment
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    2 Minutemen
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    - Operator (Can operate siege engines)
    X - Numerous

    3 Slingshots
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    X - Numerous

    4 Mudmen of Faron
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Impetuous (Strong morale, may charge enemies without orders)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    5 Wolfos Riders
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    X - Numerous

    6 Grove Watchers
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Deku Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    X - Numerous

    7 Emerald Archers
    - Long Range (Unit has double the range of other archers)
    - Melee Weaponry (Unit is also proficient in melee)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    X - Numerous

    8 Korok Council
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Camoflauge (Unit can hide in trees and shrubbery)
    X - Numerous

    9 Deku Trees
    - Stagger
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    X - Numerous

    10 Shrine of Courage
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Police
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    11 Bouldershot
    - Extra Ammo
    - Heavy Siege
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    12 Mudmen Mantlet
    - Mantlet Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Impetuous (Strong morale, may charge enemies without orders)
    X - Numerous


    Gohma


    1 Gohma Larvae
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlment without required building)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
    X - Numerous

    2 Pack of Queens
    - Support: Hive Mind (Keeps troops alive longer, improves morale)
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlment without required building)
    X - Numerous

    3 Royal Larvae
    - Stealth (Can Hide Anywhere)
    - Nimble
    -
    X - Numerous

    4 Pincergohma
    - Heavy Armor (Resistant to all but Armor Peircing Attacks)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    X - Numerous

    5 Gohma Long Legs
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    X - Numerous

    6 Shield Gohma
    - Claw Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    X - Numerous

    7 Hive Keepers
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Fire on the Move (Unit can attack while moving)
    -
    X - Numerous

    8 Shroud Walker
    - Support: Gohma Shroud (Conceals nearby units, damages enemy morale)
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    X - Numerous

    9 Tank Gohma
    - Trample (Unit has chance to instantly kill enemy in charge attack)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    X - Numerous

    10 Acid Sprayer
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    X - Numerous

    11 Armogohma
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Exceptionally Trained
    X - Numerous

    12 Acid Batch
    - Heavy Siege
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    X - Numerous



    Lanayru Province

    1 Conscripts
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Brave (This unit shows exceptional courage in the face of danger)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlement without required building)

    2 Shore Sentries
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlement without required building)
    - Stealth

    3 Coral Lancers
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Police
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)

    4 Coral Archers
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Extra Ammo
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)

    5 Ocean Guards
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - Coral Shield (Immune to arrow fire)
    - Shield Wall (Allows unit to form Shield Wall)

    6 Aquamarines
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores enemy armor)
    - Brave

    7 Coast Riders
    - Swift (Unit can move faster than other units of its type and size)
    - Hardy (Unit tires more slowly regardless of environmental and combat conditions)
    - Police

    8 Arurodas
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Burrow (Unit is invisible when running)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)

    9 Guardian Maidens
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Inspire (Improves troop morale)
    - Exceptionally Trained

    10 Battlecrabs
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Melee Weaponry (Archer becomes Infantry when in Melee)
    - Fire on the Move (Unit can attack while moving)

    11 Coralmold Ballista
    - Armor Piercing (Attack ignores Heavy Armor)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Heavy Siege

    12 Coralmold Flinger
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)



    Wizzrobe

    1 Acolytes
    - Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
    - Skirmisher (Infantry can make one ranged attack before charging)
    - Easily Trained

    2 Pyromancer
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearbye enemy morale)
    - Extra Ammo

    3 Aquamancer
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Aquatic

    4 Electromancer
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Flame Attack (Ground continues to burn on impact, damaging nearby enemy morale)

    5 Geomancer
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Explosive
    - Camouflage

    6 Aeromancer
    - Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Long Range

    7 Hylian Wizard
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Body Piercing (Attack passes through multiple enemies, reducing damage with each enemy)
    - Melee Weaponry (Archer becomes Infantry when in Melee)

    8 Illusionist
    - Nimble Footing (Unit has 25% increased chance to Parry melee attacks)
    - Swift
    - Exceptionally Trained

    9 Conjurer
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
    - No Fear (Unit cannot lose morale and retreat)

    10 Death Wizards
    - Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
    - Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
    - Imposing

    11 Earth Reaper
    - Heavy Siege
    - Explosive
    - Exceptionally Trained

    12 Crystal Golem
    - No Fear (Unit cannot lose morale and retreat)
    - Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
    - Exceptionally Trained


    Another attribute addition:
    - Recruit Anywhere: Can be trained slower in any settlement without required building
    So what I think we should do is Help Neph with the rest of the factions and units. By Making a Chart/list like the ones he made above. And post it here for him to review. Because he him self has stated that he has not figured out or thought about what all the different units for each factions should have, act, do, etc.

    So if you want to think of or have thought of what 3 Templates or traits a certain unit has. Or for the hole factions it's self.
    Feel Free to post it here as you like. It would also be nice to see your thoughts of the units for HTW and what direction they should/could take.

    Edit:
    @all.
    For any who want's more detail. You should re-read the First Post of this hole thread.
    And if You want more detail. Read the rest of this thread until you reach here.

    @ Encablossa
    I recommend you do this. To better answer your question you asked about the Darknuts and Keatons stats being the same.
    Last edited by Eldren; February 01, 2016 at 04:05 PM.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Any progress on the balance?

    Anything I can do to help?
    Taram Chalco - Elizabeth Westcliffe - Kesaris - Erika Homewood - Kalian Benton Galhansen

    --The Infinite Notebook of Perpetually Unfinished Squirrel Sketches--

  18. #118

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by VictorAYorke View Post
    Any progress on the balance?

    Anything I can do to help?
    Any thing I can help with as well?

    And thank you Neph for helping me with my problems earlier.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Well as far as I understood it, Neph will tell us the basic idea of how units and factions shall work and then we can test them.

    So if you want to help play the races play the races rebalanced so far (KoH, Gerudo, Gohma etc ... ) and write here:

    - Does they feel balanced? Which unit is to weak or to strong?
    - Do you think the theme of each unit/faction is fitting and fun to play? Which units are boring/strange?
    - Any whishes for additions of themes/ units? Does an faction miss an counter to somethink?

    in short little post so that the majority then can compare them and discuss changes.

    At least until Neph will tell you something else you can do for him .



    And if you have much freetime we can try to persuade Neph into making subclasses for the existing rosters (I mean Melee-Infantry, Spearmen etc). Therefor it would be really cool if someone (who knows how to handle the stats of units) could try to implement the following idea I found in this thread:


    "My thoughts on mages are to have a few rough groups, based on their attack type and ultimate tactical use:
    ==Direct-Fire (Zora Mages, Wizzrobe Electromancers etc), magic units with little/no arcing to their projectiles and are incapable of overhead attacks., but their shots pass through multiple enemies. Best used to soften up the enemy lines before the main forces meet.
    ==Massed Damage (Twili Sorceresses, Wizzrobe Pyromancers, Gerudo Wind Witches etc), magic units who can fire directly or indirectly and who are there to rack up as many enemy casualties as possible. Short range to counter their offensive potential. Put these guys on a wall or behind elite heavy inf, and you may have broken the game.
    ==Light Artillery (half the Fairy roster), long-range high-damage units with a modest AoE effect. Best used to counter enemy artillery, snipe at generals, cause morale damage or to harass a cautious enemy.
    ==Suppression (Wizzrobe Aquamancers, possibly also Geomancers, I suspect Zora Floodmasters should act as these too), magic units with range and a wide AoE attack, but little damage. They don't really cause casualties, but they can knock an entire army on their backsides. Best used to disrupt charges, limit enemy manoeuvrability and soften up an infantry group for a friendly charge."



    Which is in my opinion a really cool idea - if we can make them work and it adds flavor to the factions and do not completly destroys balance it can be applied to the other rosters. That might give the races even more flavor without increasing work for neph (because we are doing that).



    Probably we can split the discussion. Having Wall of texts of discussions about different factions in one thread makes it very confusing to follow.

    I would suggest:

    - use this thread for general balancing, implemention for general new ideas (like the magic subclasses) from you or from other mods which worked well
    - write faction specific reports into the specific faction thread. Most of them are not really used anyway.

  20. #120
    UndyingNephalim's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    I had split up ranged units into 3 catergories (you can see some of them on my Hylian guide page thing I did)


    Roles:
    -----
    Light: Unit can perform it's roll for a time, but will not last long because of less armor and weaponry.
    Heavy: Unit can sustain it's roll for a long period of time due to heavier armor or weaponry.
    ----- (melee only)
    Assault: Unit is exceptional at charging headlong into enemy formations and dealing damage. These units are best used aggresively and offensively
    Frontline: A nicer way of saying "Meatshield." These units are decent at absorbing damage, but not at dealing it. They should be used on teh frontline to hold enemies at bay while more powerful units move in for the kill.
    Defense: These units excel at standing their ground and holding position, but often deal minor damage. They are often extremely resistant to ranged attacks or wear heavy armor. These units should be used to defend important areas rather than charge headlong into enemies.
    Surprise Attack: These units are basically melee glass cannons, they can deal a ton of damage up front but cannot sustain themselves in a melee. Naturally they all have some sort of stealth attribute so they can sneak up on enemies.
    ----- (ranged only)
    Strike: This ranged unit excels at dealing a lot of direct damage.
    Suppressive Fire: This ranged unit doesn't necessarily deal a lot of damage or kill enemies quickly, but their method of attack slows enemies down or otherwise damages morale.
    Harassment: This ranged unit doesn't necessarily deal much damage, but it's speed and resilience allow to to continue harassing enemies from afar. They are essentially good at kiting.
    -----
    Siege Engine: This unit excels at taking down walls, gates, buildings, or otherwise any durable and immobile target. Unless specified, they are usually terrible at attacking moving targets.
    -----
    Infantry: Unit engages in melee combat. Their weapons can be varied, but most infantry use some form of sword, mace, or axe.
    Spearmen: Unit engages in melee combat with a weapon that has very long reach. Their weapons can be varied, but most spearmen use some form of spear, halberd, or pike.
    Archers: Unit engages enemy at a distance. Their weapons can be varied, but most archers use some form of bow and arrow or crossbow.
    Mages: Unit engages enemy at a distance. Their weapons can be varied, but most mages use some form of powerful magical attack.
    Cavalry: Can be combined with any of the previous unit types. Essentially this is a mounted version of Infantry, Spearmen, Archers, or Mages. Cavalry can ride all sorts of mounts.
    Creature: Cavalry without riders. Creatures come in an extremely large variety of shapes and sizes.

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