Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

[JoonasTo]

@Teknokraatti:
I've been waiting for your reply, you've been lurking this forum for days on end now xD

Good point about the skill that goes with using armour. It also has offensive benefits if used correctly. These are well enough included in the units skill/veteran level.

I do have multipliers for infantry as 1.0, spearmen as 0.9, ranged at 0.8. I also have some basic logic on the unit weight where they have some armour or if they have better armour it increases. This isn't necessarily weight related as better trained units tend to have better armour so it correlates.

Also shield units should have a lot higher weight in combat but I am pretty unsure whether I want to give them that as shield is already so good. This goes double for shield wall units.

PS. Did you weld the ringmail together?

PPS. Armour weights were directly from wikipedia so chop, chop. Get to work!

Hmmm, sparkpikes should fry whatever unit they hit. I might have accidentally given them a normal javelin.

Yeah, they have normal javelins, which projectile where they supposed to have?


EDIT: I should note that unit mass, like most stats in TW(I'm looking at you shield!), is problematic because it affects more than one ability of the unit. While teknokraatti is completely right about unit mass being very high for aggressively fighting, skilled, melee infantry that can force the enemy units back during the engagement, you can't do that. Another very important, if not even more important, factor is their ability to hold back charges, especially cavalry charges in vanilla but in HTW that includes rolling gorons and all kinds of large units. In vanilla the spear stat deals with this pretty well since most things that can take a cavalry charge are pikes/spears anyway. In HTW it's a lot more problematic because spear stats don't do anything to gorons or any of the large units. And while skilled, aggressive warriors with little or no armour can easily push back less experienced armoured warriors they sure as hell can't take a rolling goron in their face that well! This is why heavily armoured units or units with pikes should actually have very high mass in HTW. But if you do that you lose all resemblance of balanced melee pushing between normal infantry(spear stat already gives units a pretty high pushing ability to begin with.) Just can't win with a system that's not designed to handle all of these different styles of units.

[Teknokraatti]

@JoonasTo Yeah, I was distracted from the whole TWC fro about 6 months and thus catching up to things took a few days, considering I had over a hunderd pages of the general announcements thread to read... That's why it was such a long lurk!

My maille is not welded, but I am gathering tools and knowledge to begin manufacturing riveted mail, maybe even flat-ringed and riveted. Currently I use the bog-standard very unrealistic butted style, which gives very poor representation of armour value, but almost excellent idea of weight and feeling.

I might have been a bit unclear about the value of the armour, according to your response to UndyingNephalim. No matter how skilled a fighter is, without some armour he still won't be heavy infantry. I'd say that about the minimum requirements for armour to raise the unit weight are some king of helmet and bracers. Otherwise they just can't perform as line infantry, so regardless of skill, completely or very lightly armoured units shouldn't get weight bonus.

Perhaps shield wall and and spear wall units should get a weight bonus as they can't charge in the formation? Also, I would like to give the spear units very good weight overall because of their shields, formation and role, but low damage output so that they are good at holding lines and stopping charges but they aren't much of an offensive force, while axe- and swordsmen do the real damage and act as shock infantry but are more suspectible to charges and being pushed by tight spear formations. This would help spear infantry against gorons and other big infantry while still leaving the gorons able to do real damage to unprotected shock infantry or light infantry.

Another factor is of course the formation. Open formations like those used by archers or light infantry should be fairly light, shock infantry about in the middle and spears should be heaviest, being the best to hold the line. Kind of like the Broken Crescent-mod handles its spearmans; Heavy, durable units with large size and VERY low damage output, with shock infantry being able to carve through them given enough time but not able overrun them.

So to summarize: my idea would be to give the spearmen the greatest weight but make them offensively unimpressive, shock infantry the second highest weight to give them some bite in charge and make them able to do some pushing, while compensating the weight loss by high stats, then skirmishers, mostly to give them stopping power against archers and siege machines and, of course, finally archers and siege machines.

Now, I haven't done that much testing with weight so I can't judge that well but my 2 cents for some quickly assembled weight formula. Of course, mostly applicable to humanoids.
Standard value: 1
Formation (open/standard/close): -0,1/0/+0,1
Armour (Unarmoured/light armour/heavy armour): -0,1/0/+0,1
Shield (Not counted to weight if unit already has heavy armour) (No shield, light shield, heavy shield): 0/+0,05/+0,1
Training (Only if unit has at least light armour) (No training/quick training/good training): 0/+0,05/+0,1
Unit type (Light/Shock/Spears): -0,05/0/+0,05
Special formation (Shieldwall/Schiltron/Spearwall): +0,05/+0,05/+0,1
Physical size: (Diminutive/Standard/Large): -0,05/0/+0,05

This would give superheavy spear units (IE Triforce vanguard with spearwall) a weight of 1,45 whereas conscript archers would have weight of 0,75. Of course, these values are just my ideas and completely armchaired. However, I feel that some kind of formula would be beneficial seeing how much diversity even the human-sized races in HTW have.

Ps. Did you want some actual weights for equipment or did I just completely misunderstand?

Edit: to not make heavy spearmen completely overpowered against light melee cavalry, they could be given a smaller spear bonus, as there are at least 3 different I think.

[VictorAYorke]

@Neph
Do the Wizzrobe have any counters for mobile ranged units (esp horse archers)?

[Eldren]

@Neph
Do the Wizzrobe have any counters for mobile ranged units (esp horse archers)?

Crystal Golem sounds like a Good one for that.

[JoonasTo]

@Teknokraatti: Well someone has to fix the wiki page...

Actually you can push an armoured person back in melee even if you are unarmoured yourself. It's all about skill and style. Yes it's harder ofc, but it's doable. And no, I don't mean physical pushing. More about a "get in his face and don't let up"- mentality. If the opponent is unable to parry your initial combo he has to evade, which is easiest to do by just stepping back, especially with weapons(assuming your squadmates aren't blocking you from behind ofc.) All you need to do is create the situation. If you have superior skill, you can work it. How much superior skill you exactly need also depends a lot on the fighting styles involved.

The spears in HTW are without exception very short(maybe 6 feet or so) so the reach advantage once engaged in melee is probably pretty negligible. There are no real spear formations in HTW either. They're all more or less uncoordinated single fighters incapable of teamwork. Probably Med2 engine thing. This is why I have them at 0.9. Currently none of the spear infantry use the possible range they might have, they just let the enemy in their face instantly. They'd all be classified as light spears in any other mod than this really.

BTW. I've set kokiri into 0.8 this time. I am not even sure if 0.05 registers and they are like half the size

[Teknokraatti]

@JoonasTo

That about forcing an armoured person to retreat is very much true and even somewhat commonplace occurrence, but needs some room for maneuvering. That is not plentiful in formations, which is why I suggested that the mass difference work only if the soldier has some kind of armour as some armour and knowledge of how to use it negates some of the need to move around.

Having a short spear doesn't necessarily negate the positives of it. The greatest benefit of spear is that it is about the only big weapon that is easy to use in very tight formations. Swords are quite difficult, bastard swords very problematic and greatswords almost impossible. Don't forget that greek hoplites didn't have that long spears either, yet did fight in tight formations, phalanxes, where the second row would offer protection to the first by extending their spears past the first row. Anyways, M2TW engine models many things quite well but spear formations generally speaking are a bit off. My motive for suggesting greater weight to spear units was solely trying to simulate the role that spears historically played, though your point about them being light spears is definitely correct. Some of them, however, would have a true possibility to be heavy spears. For example, KoHs townguards clearly have pretty good armour so they could be changed to a type of inexperienced heavy spears.

Yeah... I haven't played with the unit weights that much. However, rounding the result to an appropriate direction would still keep the formula usable, which doesn't of course mean it is any good. At least I tried to keep the individual changes quite small as an effort to keep the balance.

I feel REALLY stupid now, but what wiki do you mean? I mean, at least english wikipedia has a good bit of info of Oakeshott typology and relatively good amount of information about the different sword and armour types including weight, even if the estimates and numbers are quite high at times. HTWWiki on the other hand has no specific information about any common weapons and I am not sure it even needs that kind of info.

[Eldren]

I could be wrong, I can't play the game at the moment and I'm not certain about it's current mechanics, but I think I distantly remember seeing Darknuts survive Twili Sol Nurses grenades, but flamethrowers always are instant kill.

Something to keep in mind is that it's possible that Neph changed how magic works, I wanna say that magic is supposed to be instant kill in general, but that's not how it worked before as I clearly remember seeing my Aquamancers barely kill anyone.

They are not magic, but they are fire which should ignite an enemy they hit. Strange as I'm pretty sure both units actually use the default Fire Arrow projectile from Medieval 2.

@ UndyingNephalim & warl0rd13.
There is another strange thing I found out. Twili Sorcerers do not do insta kill. At least to the current Darknuts. But the Twili Sol Nurses grenades do indead kill Darknuts in one shot. So maybe a change is in order. Since Twili Sol Nurses have Double the troop count of Twili Sorcerers. I'm not sure which has more range though.

Would it not make sense, in the free form at least, for Agithas bodyguard to be Hive Keepers? That way it's like Historia and she doesn't become that weird exorcist looking child ,

I agree with this. It was nice to have Her as a ranged unit. So I could keep her protected while still having her Contribut to the fight. And I don't think she is the melee type any ways. And by her personality and what she likes and wants to be treated like. She would totally want to ride upon a mighty and Beautiful steed. And be Treated like a Princess.

also what happened to the emerald Gohma unit? Viroid gohma I think it was called

I would like to know what is the plan for them as well. I thought they were a good addition, and I liked their lore.

Edit:
@ Neph.
Are the Twili Bonemold Monks not suppost to have Stealth? While in a custom game Or maybe it was before starting one, I looked at their abilities. And I did not see any ability that was for Hiding.

Conjurers also do not stat that they are good against cavalry. I don't see an ability in their Description in game that says Good or Strong against cavalry.

[Eldren]

I'm not sure If I'll Go past the word cap. So here's a new post.

@ Neph.
Can you give the Crystal Golem the throw ability. Like what Jav and Bomb throwers have. So it looks like he is throwing that big rock in it's hand.

Now there are a Few other things I want to say.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I like what you did with these 2 units.

Gohma

1 Gohma Larvae
- Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
- Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlment without required building)
- Easily Trained (Unit is trained faster)
X - Numerous

2 Pack of Queens
- Support: Hive Mind (Keeps troops alive longer, improves morale)
- Garrison (Unit upkeep is free when stationed at city)
- Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlment without required building)
X - Numerous

I'm thinking that the Hive Keepers should get Stagger for their ranged attack. So like have BP and Knock up or what ever. Because that fits with it's Lore and model. It's Throwing Gohma Larva for crying out loud! I think the soldier hit by it. Would take at least a few seconds to deal with it. Because it's now crawling on you and biting you. And I say have BP to similate it running though the ranks befor it dies by some one. And I say Knock up. Because it comes flying at you like an arrow. A spider That size flying at me. Is going to make me Fall backwords on my back or butt just out of reflect and Fright. You could also give it a burning effect(or what ever) that leaves a Spider model on the Ground for a few second or more that scares/lowers enemies moral. But only for a few seconds. It's a live target after all. And it technical will die or run away.

7 Hive Keepers
- Beast (Damages morale of all non-beast units)
- Fire on the Move (Unit can attack while moving)
-
X - Numerous


Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)

And I'm Glad to see the Shore Sentries are back.

2 Shore Sentries
- Long Reach (Bonus Damage against all Cavalry, immune to charges)
- Recruit Anywhere (Can be trained slower in any settlement without required building)
- Stealth

I think the roles of these 2 units should be to Disorient and brake up formations. Do little damage and have a Really or just long range attack.

What do you think Neph?

3 Aquamancer
- Stagger (Enemy unit must recover when hit by ranged attack)
- Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
- Aquatic

10 Floodmaster
- Wide Arc (Can attack multiple enemies at once)
- Magic (Instant Kills to enemies with no magic protection)
- Exceptionally Trained (This unit has undergone years of training and responds to orders better, but takes longer to create)
X - Aquatic

And Lastly.
Neph, can we have this for HTW? Or will you consider it?

My thoughts on mages are to have a few rough groups, based on their attack type and ultimate tactical use:
==Direct-Fire (Zora Mages, Wizzrobe Electromancers etc), magic units with little/no arcing to their projectiles and are incapable of overhead attacks., but their shots pass through multiple enemies. Best used to soften up the enemy lines before the main forces meet.
==Massed Damage (Twili Sorceresses, Wizzrobe Pyromancers, Gerudo Wind Witches etc), magic units who can fire directly or indirectly and who are there to rack up as many enemy casualties as possible. Short range to counter their offensive potential. Put these guys on a wall or behind elite heavy inf, and you may have broken the game.
==Light Artillery (half the Fairy roster), long-range high-damage units with a modest AoE effect. Best used to counter enemy artillery, snipe at generals, cause morale damage or to harass a cautious enemy.
==Suppression (Wizzrobe Aquamancers, possibly also Geomancers, I suspect Zora Floodmasters should act as these too), magic units with range and a wide AoE attack, but little damage. They don't really cause casualties, but they can knock an entire army on their backsides. Best used to disrupt charges, limit enemy manoeuvrability and soften up an infantry group for a friendly charge.

These are just my headcanon based on the old unit stats, although I really want to see suppression-based mages make an appearance (just think of the tactics they open up!)

By all means do whatever you will with mages, but I strongly advise you make them into very niche units, using missile attacks that would make no sense on a non-magic unit but that open up a load of tactics for their faction. (also that add flavor, but yeah)

[VictorAYorke]

@Mage Thoughts
Offensive magic strikes me as a tremendously diverse means of attacking an enemy force, and I'm beginning to wonder if using categories of any kind risks giving up on the idea that rival civilisations are finding their own ways to harness and project this power.

Therefore, if the previously mentioned groups (direct-fire, massed damage, light artillery, suppression) are used, I suggest that they are treated more like guidelines. One faction's short-ranged suppression mages might form an emergency charge protection, another faction's long-ranged variant might prefer to force massed archers off their feet to protect their lightly-armoured allies...

[Teknokraatti]

@Eldren
How carefully you did read the other posts? Because conjurers aren't supposed to be good against cavalry, the are just shock infantry.

Crystal golems, on the other hand, just murder cavalry. Just did a test battle, it took 5 crystal golems about 20 seconds to kill 55 of the 64 hyrulean mounted knights and rout them without any casualties to themselves. I'd say that's effective enough.

Another test battle: 1 golem unit against 1 Goat lord and 1 Ordona horsemen unit. Golems: 0/5 dead, Ordona: 111/127 dead. Golems are at least sufficiently capable against cavalry, I'd say. They might have problems against light cavalry with ranged weapons due to them being a bit slower, but Wizzrobe wizards already are effective enough against them.

[Eldren]

@Eldren
How carefully you did read the other posts? Because conjurers aren't supposed to be good against cavalry, the are just shock infantry.

Crystal golems, on the other hand, just murder cavalry. Just did a test battle, it took 5 crystal golems about 20 seconds to kill 55 of the 64 hyrulean mounted knights and rout them without any casualties to themselves. I'd say that's effective enough.

Another test battle: 1 golem unit against 1 Goat lord and 1 Ordona horsemen unit. Golems: 0/5 dead, Ordona: 111/127 dead. Golems are at least sufficiently capable against cavalry, I'd say. They might have problems against light cavalry with ranged weapons due to them being a bit slower, but Wizzrobe wizards already are effective enough against them.

According to the past versions of HTW. The Conjurers where the Only anti-cavalry unit and only jav unit the Wizrobes had. Why Neph changed this, I have no idea.

[UndyingNephalim]

Conjurers are Anti Cavalry Spearmen (or more accurately all the Chilfos that compose the unit under the Conjurer are anti cavalry.)

[Eldren]

Conjurers are Anti Cavalry Spearmen (or more accurately all the Chilfos that compose the unit under the Conjurer are anti cavalry.)

I rest my case.

So Neph. As I was saying. Newer Players have no idea that it's a Spear/Anti-cav unit.
But I was wondering some thing else for the Conjurers.
All Spear men/Anti-cav units. Have a Penalty when Fighting Normal Infantry. Did you manage to Fix this with the Conjurers?
If So. Then you don't have to make their unit say they are anti-cav. Other wise they may get that Penalty back.
And I think it's neat to have a Anti-cav unit, That is not the best at Anti-cav Work. But is Better then any other anti-cav against Infantry.

Edit:
I will miss the Chilfos throwing spears, Like they did in TP though.
I would have loved for them to be able to still do that. Even if they only had one shot each.

[UndyingNephalim]

I believe it's hardcoded into the engine that giving a unit the spearmen class gives them a bonus against cavalry but penalty against infantry. You can give infantry the "light_spear" attribute, but that only gives them a bracing bonus against cavalry and not a damage bonus. I could be wrong though.


They should be throwing spears, I might have accidentally taken it out.

[Eldren]

I believe it's hardcoded into the engine that giving a unit the spearmen class gives them a bonus against cavalry but penalty against infantry. You can give infantry the "light_spear" attribute, but that only gives them a bracing bonus against cavalry and not a damage bonus. I could be wrong though.

Nice.
So they really are Anti-cav that is better against infantry and worse against cav then other anti-cav units.

They should be throwing spears, I might have accidentally taken it out.

If that's the case. Do you remember me posting this? I've been giving feed back for a while now.

So I have a bone to pick with some of the units.

I have found at this time, that there are at least 3 units that used to be ranged units.
1) Dodongos
2) Conjures
3) Battle Chariots

Now beside me wanting them to be ranged again. What I have against them is that HTW Whether in game or in Code files. Says they are still ranged units.
This has been the case for the Dodongos for many years now. While the Conjures and Battle Chariots are a new change that is only in HTW 4.0.

Besides those 3. I haven't tried out all the units in game to see their changes yet.

--
Here Neph. May many more problems be Ironed out.

Edit:
Can Chilfos use a custom Spear Model for their projectiles? They currently use the normal Throwing Spear model.
Edit2:
Well they did in the old Versions of HTW. I'm not sure about 4.0

[JoonasTo]

@teknokraatti:
Hoplites relied more on their shields than their spear though. And they got obsoleted by the macedonian phalanx with the sarissa. The same thing later with shield/spear wall units in medieval times vs pikes. When you have the long reach advantage and can present a solid wall of death, pushing becomes a lot easier. The point here is that none of the HTW units have spears of any reasonable lenght that would allow them to do that. None of the units have shields large enough to work as classical hoplites either.

I know that 0.3 vs 0.6 makes a huge difference against cavalry charges but trying to figure out what effects does 1.1 vs 1.0 have in practice is pretty hopeless.

The english wikipedia page about plate armour lists weight at 15-25, you disagreed about that earlier. Go start a flame war ^^

[Frostwyrmwraith]

I've been saying this for a while, although I don't think I noticed enough to speak up at any point in this thread: no unit should have instant kill and wide arc.

While giving them a short range mitigates the problem slightly, it doesn't eliminate the fact that having both those abilities essentially renders all sieges unwinnable. It's impossible to get troops through a gate or wall breach through any unit with that ability, because when they compress to squeeze through the gap the entire unit dies immediately. And I mean both of those things quite literally. I'm not sure if using siege towers mitigates that, but not every wall is vulnerable to those.

This is why Floodmasters were broken in the previous build. Zoras could mass produce them and render invasion impossible. It doesn't help that even cavalry, in a spaced out formation, dies very fast against them. Last time I fought them in the previous build, two units of Floodmasters wiped out my entire complement of Moldorm Riders with no support whatsoever. And both their units were partially depleted.

I say strip them of magic and give them stagger or something. Maybe give Death Wizards a bonus to accuracy or something instead of Wide Arc.

[Sir Aroun]

UN if it is not to much trouble can you give Hylian Infantry their Buckler shields and re-add Gohma Adolescents in till the upgrade system is fully in place?

[Teknokraatti]

@JoonasTo

I see your point and you are decidedly correct about the HTWs spearmen. Still, I think that the mod would benefit from a couple of heavier spear units, even if buffed somewhat artificially. Will do some testing with it.

Again, wikipedia isn't wrong, but 20-25 kg range consists almost exclusively of tournament jousting armour, which is designed to be extremely durable and stiff in order to reduce the chance of accidental injuries. Chosing to don such a suite to battle would however be quite suicidal, especially with anything resembling the frogface helm. Another point is, that while wikipedia doesn't mention it, this weight range represents heavy armour. Considering that the classical armouring on an armoured pikeman weighted from 7 to 9 kgs and consisted of open-face helmet, breastplate, tassets and maybe half-gauntlets. I could go and do some serious changes but that would require me to search and link credible sources for the armour weight and properties, which I currently am too lazy to do. ^^

[Eldren]

@Eldren
How carefully you did read the other posts? Because conjurers aren't supposed to be good against cavalry, the are just shock infantry.

Crystal golems, on the other hand, just murder cavalry. Just did a test battle, it took 5 crystal golems about 20 seconds to kill 55 of the 64 hyrulean mounted knights and rout them without any casualties to themselves. I'd say that's effective enough.

Another test battle: 1 golem unit against 1 Goat lord and 1 Ordona horsemen unit. Golems: 0/5 dead, Ordona: 111/127 dead. Golems are at least sufficiently capable against cavalry, I'd say. They might have problems against light cavalry with ranged weapons due to them being a bit slower, but Wizzrobe wizards already are effective enough against them.

@ Teknokraatti.
Some thing I've been wondering.
The Wizzrobes have 2 construct units.
1) Conjurers
2) Crystal Golems
The Fairies of Term also have 2 units that are constructs.
1) Golems
2) Beam Golems
Well maybe the Fairies have a few more then 2.
3) Phantoms of Tarm
4) Tarmgate


So what I was wondering was, are these 2?
1) Conjurers
2) Crystal Golems
Used like these 2?
1) Golems
2) Beam Golems
Also in a fight between the 4. How well will each fare?

O... and as Neph said; The Conjurers are supposed to have a ranged attack. Maybe give them their old traits. But with the new stats.
Here is the old Conjurers last fond in the Pre-tests of HTW 4.0.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Conjure
dictionary Conjure ; Javelinmen
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Light
banner faction main_none
banner holy crusade
soldier chilfos, 30, 0, 40
officer conjure
mount_effect elephant +6
attributes can_withdraw
formation 3.2, 3.2, 4.4, 4.4, 5, square
stat_health 3, 0
stat_pri 12, 3, javelin, 70, 8, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 25, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr ap, thrown
stat_sec 6, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, none, 25, 0.6
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr spear, spear_bonus_8
stat_pri_armour 5, 2, 0, leather
;stat_armour_ex 0, 4, 5, 0, 3, 3, 3, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 3, -2
stat_mental 15, disciplined, highly_trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 800, 50, 75, 55, 800, 3, 800
armour_ug_levels 0
ownership wizzrobe
era 0 wizzrobe
era 1 wizzrobe
era 2 wizzrobe
info_pic_dir wizzrobe
card_pic_dir wizzrobe
;unit_info 11, 0, 18

And here is their current form.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Conjure
dictionary Conjure ; Javelinmen
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Light
banner faction main_none
banner holy crusade
soldier chilfos, 50, 0, 40
officer wizbishop
officer conjure
attributes can_withdraw, frighten_foot, frighten_mounted
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 5, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 3, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, none, 25, 0.6
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr spear, spear_bonus_8
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 3, 3, 3, leather
;stat_armour_ex 0, 4, 5, 7, 3, 6, 6, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, -1, 0, 1
stat_mental 7, normal, trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 300, 150, 150, 150, 300, 4, 300
armour_ug_levels 0
ownership wizzrobe
era 0 wizzrobe
era 1 wizzrobe
era 2 wizzrobe
info_pic_dir wizzrobe
card_pic_dir wizzrobe
;unit_info 11, 0, 18

Also Neph said he was going to Redo the Fairies faction. I believe their hole unit Roster.
So we are running out of time to test this kind of stuff.

@ all.
Same goes to you all. If you want to try this kind of Battle out.

Edit:
The Acolytes are now a ranged unit. Should the Conjurers act like them?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Acolytes
dictionary Acolytes ; Swordsmen Militia
category infantry
class light
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_none
banner holy crusade
soldier Acolyte, 50, 0, 1
officer wizbishop
attributes can_withdraw, free_upkeep_unit
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 3, 3, pink_blast1, 80, 30, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 25, 1
;stat_pri_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr prec
stat_sec 3, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, none, 25, 1.3
;stat_sec_ex 0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 3, 3, 3, metal
;stat_armour_ex 10, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 2, 0, -1, -1
stat_mental 7, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 300, 150, 150, 150, 300, 4, 300
armour_ug_levels 0
ownership wizzrobe
era 0 wizzrobe
era 1 wizzrobe
era 2 wizzrobe
info_pic_dir wizzrobe
card_pic_dir wizzrobe
;unit_info 11, 0, 18

And what traits Should the Conjurers have? For example which of the 3 options should they be?
"class missile"
"class spearmen"
"class light"

They are all "category infantry" by the way.