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Thread: I am loving this Khwarezmian campaign - anyone have help on sieges?

  1. #1
    bigdaddy1204's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default I am loving this Khwarezmian campaign - anyone have help on sieges?

    Today I returned to my Broken Crescent after a long time away. Well I loved it! Today I am playing as the Khwarezmian empire. I had never really played them before.

    I got excited to play this faction after reading a book about Iran. I now realise the Khwarezmians are Persian faction, so they are ideal. I decided that I would make Iran the seat of a mighty empire!



    Turn one: the Khwarezmians start with just two cities, Gurganj (modern Urgench) and Shiveh in the far north of the map, above Iran. I like to be historical, so I decided to re-create their real historical empire in the game. So (with the below map as my guide) I started out by capturing Merv to the south, using a heavy assault of catapults to smash the doors and then a cavalry charge through the streets.

    Once this was done, I turned north-east to take Bukhara, Balkh and Samarkand. I wanted to secure this area, which lies to the west of the Afghan mountains, before any other faction could get there, so that I could have a secure homeland from which to launch my campaign to "liberate" Iran. I turned south again, and was hoping to take Herat in Afghanistan which was part of the empire. But I found the Ghorids had got there first! I decided to avoid war with them for now and headed south west, to begin the conquest of Iran to the south of Merv. But when the Ghorids laid siege and captured the rebel city of Tus, I realised that I had no choice but to go to war with them (because I cannot allow them to take a city on my path, it's totally unacceptable). So I laid siege and destroyed them. I have now taken Tus, the city just to the west of it (I forgot the name) and also Nishapur, which I managed to take but which still has a large and powerful rebel army outside the walls.



    I am now being attacked by the Ghorids near Balkh, but I have just inflicted a crushing defeat on them near Tus. I am thinking my next move will be to march my army west to deal with the large rebel stack outside Nishapur, before turning east again and advancing on Herat. I have a separate army forming in Balkh; while for now they are quite small, they do have some elite heavy cavalry and infantry. If I can grow this force a bit more, I could think about an attack on the Ghorid citadel at Firuzkuh. If I could take it, that would be a severe blow against the enemy. The only downside is that it's slightly annoying that I have to face the Ghorids, because I will miss out on the opportunity to take more lands in Iran. But much of the good land there has already been occupied by the Seljuks, so they will have to be crushed later.

    By the way, I have discovered a really interesting new way to play the game - I read about the history of each city online while the turns are loading. I ended up learning things about Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, which is where the Khwarezmian starting cities of Gorganj and Shiveh are located, and I learned that these areas were historically Iranian but gradually shifted to a Turkic culture during the middle ages. I also learned that the Khwarezmians appear to have been basically Persian, but founded by a Turkish ghulam soldier who became a governor, presumably with a mixed Persian and Turkic population. I never knew that! Thank you Broken Crescent.

    I am enjoying this campaign enormously! By the way, anyone have any tips on taking rival faction cities? I notice there is a huge garrison script if you lay siege for one turn. This means either you need a huge army at all times, or you need to have siege equipment, which slows the army down. Is there any way round this?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by bigdaddy1204; November 23, 2015 at 08:14 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: I am loving this Khwarezmian campaign - anyone have help on sieges?

    The Khwarezm empire was a Turkic dynasty like most middle-eastern kingdoms after the collapse of the Seljuk empire.

  3. #3

    Default Re: I am loving this Khwarezmian campaign - anyone have help on sieges?

    Quote Originally Posted by nein View Post
    The Khwarezm empire was a Turkic dynasty like most middle-eastern kingdoms after the collapse of the Seljuk empire.
    Turkic dynasty but heavily influenced by the Persian lands it of course absorbed in terms of culture, administration, etc.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: I am loving this Khwarezmian campaign - anyone have help on sieges?

    The ruling class was Turkish, the army was Turkish but the majority of population was mostly Persian and Azeri. The locals hated the ruling class and some even welcomed Mongolian Army out of previous grievances. Mohamed Shah didn't really have full control of his country because his mother and his uncles usurped the throne. Mohamed Shah's first born son Jelal ad Din was dark skinned cause her mother was an Indian princess. So Mohamed Shah's mother disliked Jelal ad Din and favored Shah's other sons who were born from younger fair skinned Uzbek wife. Jelal ad Din was popular within the Army because he was a man of action and great charisma as well as military prowess. After years of his grandmother's special treatments (spreading rumors about him, false accusations, near suicidal missions to eliminate him), out of desperation, Jelal ad Din have become a heavy drinker. When Mongol forces approached, Jelal ad Din proposed to attack Mongols (250 000) with the whole Army of 500 000 men on the bank of Sir-Darya river. However his plan was disregarded by his coward father, Mohamed Shah and grandmother, the Army was split into many smaller forces to guard major cities which led to their destruction by Mongolian concentrated attacks. Mongols led by Chingis Khaan, used revolutionary tactics, swift movements and maneuvers before their time which surprised their enemies and created almost demonic, other worldly impression about them just like Attila the Hun before them. This false impression was actually promoted by Mongols and struck fear into the enemy hearts. Modern military scientists view Mongol assault on Khwarezm as a classic example of successful combination of psychological warfare, tactical supremacy and intelligence work. According to witnesses, Mongol soldiers and Khwarezmian soldiers were able to understand each others conversations even though the Turks of the time have settled down in Persia for only a century and absorbed many Persian, Arab, Azeri and other words into their vocabulary. Since Turks migrated out of Orkhon river area of Mongolia around 700AD they still had some language connection.

  5. #5
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: I am loving this Khwarezmian campaign - anyone have help on sieges?

    Quote Originally Posted by nein View Post
    The Khwarezm empire was a Turkic dynasty like most middle-eastern kingdoms after the collapse of the Seljuk empire.
    Indeed. Let's go through the Broken Crescent factions:

    Christians
    KoJ
    Byzantines
    Vladimir
    Georgia
    Cilician Armenia
    Makuria


    Indians
    Chauhan Rajputs
    Sindhi Rajputs
    Paramara Rajputs

    Arabs
    Yemen
    Oman
    Uyunids
    Abbasids


    Persian-Afghan
    Ghurids


    Turkic dynasty related to Seljuqs
    Ayyubid Egypt
    Zengids
    Rum
    Kerman Seljuqs
    Khwarezm
    Azeris
    (i.e. the Elaqashakagalakazunids, or whatever they are called)
    |
    Other Turkic dynasties
    Cumans
    Ghaznavids (Turko-Persians, centred on Afghanistan)
    Kara-Khitan (Buddhists, closely related to Mongols)
    Bolghars (who tried to convert the Russians to Islam. The Kievan king was considering converting, until he found out that that would involve giving up alcohol, at which point he convened all the Russian principalities and began a concerted effort to wipe the Bolghars off the face of the earth, which would have eventually succeeded if the Mongols hadn't turned up to finish the job).


    So actually most BC factions are not Turkic, although there were several other Turkic principalities which BC misses out (Fars, Shirvan, Ahlat, Khorasan), and admittedly some of the BC factions are not really 'Middle Eastern'.
    Last edited by Copperknickers II; February 07, 2016 at 01:58 PM.
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    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  6. #6

    Default Re: I am loving this Khwarezmian campaign - anyone have help on sieges?

    You mentioned the garrison script, that was presented in 2.3.2. Current version is 2.4 which doesn't support garrison script at the moment.

    For a general tip:
    Laying siege in 2.3.2 will trigger garrison script for most "original cities" of the attacked AI faction on next turn to appear
    Still you can bring siege equipment with you and atack without sieging therefore neglating the garrison script

    There is massive exploit in m2tw engine letting you siege even without equipment BUT i hope it won't be posted here, as it really ruins total war experience at all
    Especially in such well balanced mods as BC

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