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Thread: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

  1. #1
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Our story is the story of humanity. In this land is the home, the eternal hearth of civilization. Since the great flood, and the time when mighty Sumer ruled supreme;
    we have thrived, but now, now we are falling. Upstart powers, once filthy barbarian tribes, now claw at our mighty kingdoms, and the ravages of time have forced us into stagnancy and decadence.
    But this need not be the end, for we can resume our rightful rule again...but who will be this champion, the fiery warrior kings of Assyria, newly free from slavery; or maybe the wise Kassite rulers of ancient Babylon,
    wise heirs to a noble tradition, or perhaps some new kingdom, yet to be etched in clay. Enemies surround us on all sides,
    from the ruthless Mitanni and Hittite empires, the savage warlords of Syria, or even fey Elam, perched in its mountain fortress ready to attack.
    Who can yet defeat these rebels, who can restore our power, who yet,
    can claim the ancient title of God-King, and as mighty Gilgamesh did, become immortal, and be remembered for ten thousand years!



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Assyria


    Babylon







    Unit Previews

    Mesopotamian armies draw upon millenia of martial tradition, but innovation is not unknown to these generals.
    Assyrian generals use lightning fast infantry to sweep around their foe, while savage war dogs and axemen break the enemies line.
    Babylonians act cautiously, these masters of defensive warfare can draw upon Iranian mercenaries and disciplined spearmen to halt any enemy assault.

    Assyrian Core Troops:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Assyrian War Dogs:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Levy Archers:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Amorite Skirmishers:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Assyrian Bowmen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Levy Spearmen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Heavy Spearmen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Heavy Infantry:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Provincial Levies:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Heavy Axemen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Assyrian Levy Infantry:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Light Axes:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Heavy Chariots[WIP]:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 








    Babylonian Core Troops:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Sutean Axemen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Archers:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Slingers:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Babylonian Bodyguard:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Kassite Noble Spearmen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Gutian Tribesmen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Sesku Spearmen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Light Chariots[WIP]:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Mercenary Iranian Raiders:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Spearmen:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    A note on historical accuracy:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Many people might be looking at this preview, and assuming Assyria that means "Neo-Assyria" i.e.
    The Assyria you see with the lamassu, and the large sculpted reliefs etc. This is not the same civilization.
    Neo-Assyria existed from c.1000-600 BC; we are portraying the Middle Assyrian Empire, which existed during the LBA.
    The culture and equipment was related, yes, but different. Besides intentional reforms under multiple kings, there were major cultural changes from the Bronze to Iron ages; so Neo-Assyrian art is not authoritative for Middle Assyrian culture, which is why our Assyrian units look so different from the Assyrians you might be expecting to see.



    A note on balancing:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Massicio2 has joined our team full-time to work on balancing and gameplay. What this means is that as
    factions are edited and tested, certain units might change or even be deleted/added to fit playability. From this point forwards, all rosters
    might be edited, even greatly. Work was already assumed WIP, but that is now even more evident.




    Assyria, Babylon and The Sea Peoples, as well as a huge number of improvements and fixes will be featured in the 1.2 release, coming soon.

    CREDITS

    PunitorMaximus - Project Lead,Models, Textures, Assembly Kit Development, Screenshots.

    GreenyRepublic - Models, Textures, Faction Icons, QA.

    DontFearMe22 - Models, Textures, Assembly Kit Development, Misc. Graphics.

    Marechal Christos Massilius - Unit Cards.

    ComradeKane - Models, Textures.

    Turkenlouis - Models, Textures, Research

    Prince of Judah - Historical Research.

    Special thanks to Massicio2 for working extensively on balancing and bug-fixing


    Last edited by Dontfearme22; November 08, 2015 at 11:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
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    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    The most expected ones, good work!
    Just 2 questions: what will be the impact on recruitment of core troops in game, sorry if you said it already, but is it like dei culture required to recruit? And how is Elam doing (just as awaited by me)

  3. #3
    Ther200's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    Nice work! Those bronze body armor look smexy!

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    Quote Originally Posted by Linke View Post
    The most expected ones, good work!
    Just 2 questions: what will be the impact on recruitment of core troops in game, sorry if you said it already, but is it like dei culture required to recruit? And how is Elam doing (just as awaited by me)
    Elam is pretty close to being finished. As for your other question, are you asking if theres an AoR system? Or do you mean your culture has to be dominant in the region to recruit? Either way its too early to say for sure.

  5. #5
    GreenyRepublic's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    Quote Originally Posted by Linke View Post
    The most expected ones, good work!
    Just 2 questions: what will be the impact on recruitment of core troops in game, sorry if you said it already, but is it like dei culture required to recruit? And how is Elam doing (just as awaited by me)
    On the subject of DeI-style recruitment: we are aiming to keep Age of Bronze's gameplay identical to that of vanilla Rome II as far as mechanics are concerned. We want to make a game that plays just like Rome II, only set in the Bronze Age.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    these units for assyria and babylon not are correct historically,helmets,shields and uniform not historical.
    the historical research for these factions has been very poor.
    historical troops from assyria army:

























    Last edited by Anibal at portas; November 10, 2015 at 02:21 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    Quote Originally Posted by Anibal at portas View Post
    these units for assyria and babylon not are correct historically,helmets,shields and uniform not historical.
    the historical research for these factions has been very poor.
    historical troops from assyria army:


    I don't mean to be rude but did you even read the write-up? You're accusing our team of poor research and that our historical representation is incorrect but did you even look at the pictures you posted? Three of them clearly state they're 7th century BC.. This is about 500 years after the timeline of the AoB mod. And ironically, in the original post, DontFearMe has stated explicitly that it is often confused with the neo-assyrian empire which it is not. Carl and the rest of the team has put in a ridiculous amount of time and effort into research and modeling so before making accusations, maybe take the time to actually read the post? Or an attempt at being thorough?
    Last edited by Massicio2; November 10, 2015 at 02:41 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    Quote Originally Posted by Massicio2 View Post
    I don't mean to be rude but did you even read the write-up? You're accusing our team of poor research and that our historical representation is incorrect but did you even look at the pictures you posted? Three of them clearly state they're 7th century BC.. This is about 500 years after the timeline of the AoB mod. And ironically, in the original post, DontFearMe has stated explicitly that it is often confused with the neo-assyrian empire which it is not. Carl and the rest of the team has put in a ridiculous amount of time and effort into research and modeling so before making accusations, maybe take the time to actually read the post? Or an attempt at being thorough?
    in this epoch,assyria is my favorite faction is like the rome of this epoch and i could not avoid constructive criticism with this historical mistakes committed to the units of assyria and babylon.
    you put graphic evidence for demostrate that I have no reason in the historicity of the units.
    in the preview i've seen textures robes and sandals greek style of another era and copied from rome II,mixing these textures with other outputs of the imagination of modder.
    also completely not historical units such as dogs, who have copied the greek style robes vanilla game.
    Last edited by Anibal at portas; November 10, 2015 at 03:17 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    in the preview i've seen textures robes and sandals Greek style of another era and copied from rome II,mixing these textures with other outputs of the imagination of modder.
    also completely not historical units such as dogs, who have copied the Greek style robes vanilla game.

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    Quote Originally Posted by Anibal at portas View Post
    in the preview i've seen textures robes and sandals Greek style of another era and copied from rome II,mixing these textures with other outputs of the imagination of modder.
    also completely not historical units such as dogs, who have copied the Greek style robes vanilla game.
    Why would the textures be used from Rome II? Because they're already present and because they're good enough and much less important than the armor for example, in the bigger picture. Theres no logical deduction here whatsoever. You completely switched gears from accusations of lacking historicity and poor research to "Well if you use your imagination and work with what you're given it could look like this." The amount of custom models that have been made is incredible all for the sole purpose of the highest possible representation of the Bronze Age and whatever vanilla models that were settled with, were used to fit this goal. Nothing that you posted fits into this scope..

    And to address your previous reply, again... this is not the Neo-Assyrian Empire. The Assyria you are talking about is from a later time period (This is all addressed in the OP as previously stated) Assyria in the late bronze age was not the "Rome" of the era. I wouldnt say necessarily there was one as multiple factions have different aspects of what may be considered the "rome" of the era. But if I had to, probably Egypt. And more importantly, that wasn't constructive criticism. You could have approached it in a Socratic manner or... well anything aside from "These are not historically accurate and the research of these factions is very poor" when, Ironically your post was completely void of historical relevance to the late bronze age.
    Last edited by Massicio2; November 10, 2015 at 03:57 PM.

  11. #11
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Official AoB Preview #6] Mesopotamia

    Ok, I am going to address the comments above me in one fell swoop right here.

    The Assyria, as referenced in the preview is not the Neo-Assyrian Empire. I actually anticipated confusion, which is why I include that disclaimer about the difference between the two, but I will now specifically address the concerns brought up.

    All the images cited by Anibal at Portas are belonging, quite clearly to the Neo-Assyrian period of Assyrian, conventionally dated from 911 to 609 BC.

    Before I give sources and background on the appearance of our Assyrians, I will give context on the images Anibal has provided.

    1. This appears to be, based both on the equipment of the Assyrians and the equipment of the opponents, to be an illustration of the Battle of the Ulai River, between Assyria and Elam (635 BC). Look especially at the hair of the Elamites, and the distinctive rondels on the quivers for hints on this.

    2. Based on the shield and helmet design, I would say this is also an Assyrian, although it is generic enough that any Iron Age Mesopotamian kingdom is possible. On the shield alone, there are few references to round shields anywhere in the Near East before 1100 BC(R. Drews, The End of the Bronze Age), and the only users of these shields are either Habiru or Sherden/Shekelesh mercenaries in Syria, not Mesopotamians.

    3. The helmet is iron, that should say enough.

    4. This is from the Osprey book: The Ancient Assyrians, of which the blurb for this image reads: “heavy chariot, reign of Ashurbanipal, late 7th c. BC.”

    5. Same Osprey book, and it literally says in your image “early 7th century BC”
    6. This is a Johnny Shumate illustration, and since it shows warriors with again, very typical Neo-Assyrian armor it also has iron helmets, so yeah. Tells you what you need to know, not Bronze Age.

    7. Osprey book, again, “Royal guardsmen, 7th c. BC”


    8. Osprey again, “Cavalry and infantry, 655 BC” Cavalry were not used in that function in Mesopotamia until the Iron Age, and the helmets are again, iron. If you disagree on the cavalry point, at least recognize the iron helmet is enough to place the image after the Bronze Age, ignoring everything else.


    9. Iron helmet, round shield, iron spear

    10. Osprey, don’t even need the blurb, iron helmets, round shields


    11. helmet, shield


    12. helmet, iron dagger end

    13. Helmet, roundel, spear point, shield

    Every single one of your images is clearly Neo-Assyrian, and not one of them could possibly be portraying a Bronze Age event. Many of the soldiers are carbon copies from the Ashurnasirpal friezes, down to every detail. If you don’t believe me, look at the friezes, or the vast amount of images and etchings available online and compare the two. You’ll see soon enough, if you don't I can do a addendum to this post specifically pointing out the similarities.

    So, comparing Neo-Assyria, a empire that had undergone internal change, deliberate reforms under several rulers(Tilgath Plieser III the most important), and being surrounded by a region under massive societal and political changes following the Bronze Age collapse, and the Middle Assyrian empire at its height(not the decline, which led into the rise of the Neo-Assyrian)c. 1300 BC is the same as comparing Republican Rome to Trajan Rome basically.
    Would you allow me to use images of Triarii and Hastati to make a mod about the Dacian wars, or say that 4th century Foederatii are good models for the conquest of Britain under Claudius? Because that is just as egregious as using Neo-Assyrians to make judgements about Middle Assyria, regardless of the continuity between them.
    I will type out in a second comment later my reasoning and sources for the way we portray the Assyrians.

    As for the roman sandals, the issue is...as far as I can tell to make models without sandals would require totally new skin models, which I consider too much of a resource waste vs. the minor fix it would provide to be of immediate concern. I know its inaccurate.
    Last edited by Dontfearme22; November 10, 2015 at 06:43 PM.

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