Battle of Mankizert, I think it's much more important than Conquest of İstanbul since it changed the destiny of whole area.
Civis
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Battle of Mankizert, I think it's much more important than Conquest of İstanbul since it changed the destiny of whole area.
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
The connections between Dacia and Rome where actually much bigger and started long before the conquest of a part of the kingdom of Decebalus, and continued after as well.Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I
And Dacia was back then (and most of the medieval era) covered with thick woods (not to mention the third part of the territory is mountains and another third hills) and most of the migratory tribes were avoiding entering here.
And there is debatable how much others (Slavs for ex) had left their influences and how much was the other way around (Slavs, themselves a mixed population formed by several others that adopted a language at some point, that diverted after in several other related ones)
So if French can talk about Gauls or Germans about Arminius, is the same thing as Romanians talking about Dacians and Romans. Dacian are the main root that had left most of the mythology and folklore and some spiritual beliefs, and Romans are the other main root (even if maybe a secondary one) that had left most of the language, some mythology and spirituality.
Another evidence that Romanians were north of Danube at that time is that we have the main Christianity related words stright from the ancient Latin, and Romanian is the Latin based language that only use a word based on "basilica" (for both the building and institution) and not "ecclesia" for "church". unlike those who were still in the Roman empire by the time of Theodosius when Christianity was imposed as the only accepted religion and had some standardization there.
More on topic, I think the Getae king Dromikaites defeating the Macedonian king Lisimachus and stopping the advance of the Hellenistic world north of Danube (and north of Balkan mountains actually) had one of the biggest impacts here.
The defeat of Ottoman sultan Mohamed the Conqueror by Vlad Dracula Tepes is another victory with a big impact, was one of the most important that had kept the spread of Islam north of Danube (and spared us of the problems that others in the Balkanic peninsula had up to this days in some cases, see Kosovo).
That, and the fact that campaign was a masterpiece of asymmetric warfare.
_
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Battle of San Jacinto, 1836 which led to Texas' de facto independence from Mexico. After ten years and unsustainable debt, it opted to join the US as one of the only foreign nations to willingly annex itself to the US. I'd follow up this with the lesser known but extremely important Battle of Palo Duro Canyon, 1874 in the Red River campaign of the Comanche Wars. This was the decisive defeat of the de facto state of Commancheria otherwise known as the Commanche-Kiowa Empire. This opened up the entire frontier of perhaps 2/3rds of present day Texas and the rest of the southern plains to safe settlement of Americans and Germans or Scotch-Irish immigrants. During the Red River campaign, my ancestral family was able to safely make the trek from the largely destroyed and impoverished postbellum Mississsippi to Texas where land was plentiful and cheap. This was an attractive new start for my third great grandfather that served through no less than 20 major engagements of the civil war.
Last edited by Admiral Piett; February 16, 2016 at 11:00 PM.
Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri
大信皇帝
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
In Colombia? I guess the Battle of Boyaca 1819 which allowed Simon Bolivar to capture Bogota and establish an independent state in what was otherwise a Spanish colony.
In Canada? I guess the Battle of Queenston Heights 1812 or the Battle of Stoney Creek 1813 which halted the American advance into Niagara.
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
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Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Really? For Canada I would have thought that the battle of the Plains of Abraham would have been pretty pivotal?
It was a decisive defeat which, despite subsequent victories over the British, the French military in Canada never recovered from. By the end of the Seven Years war the French were in a pretty bad shape in Canada and as such had no choice but to hand over the territory in the peace treaty.
Had the French won a decisive victory, they may well have had the strength to hold out for the duration of the war. If that had happened, then chances are the French could have held on to most of Canada at the end of the war. Who knows how that might have changed things? Certainly more people speaking French in Canada anyway
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Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Not very many people talk about the Battle of the Plains of Abraham (or the Siege of Quebec) because it's a sensitive subject among French people. The funny thing is that the French were winning the majority of battles around the siege of Quebec until the Battle of the Plains of Abraham where the French commander was killed and the French took huge casualties only surviving due to the helpful assistance of French Frontiersmen and their Indian allies (despite the fact that the British lost their commander they accomplished their objectives). Though arguably the French would have lost the city anyway because they had no real way of contending with the British fleet and its blockade unless a French fleet showed up with the strength to attack the British fleet.
An interesting encounter between a seasoned general Louis Joseph de Montcalm and a slight novice James Wolfe. None of who really understand wars in colonial North America despite the fact that Montcalm scored his fair share of victories literally foiling every one of James Wolfe's attempts to try and attack/reach the city of Quebec until the next fateful encounter that is. However the British had already captured Fort Frontenac, Fort Niagara and Fort Carillon basically constricting the passage of the St. Lawrence River and destroying all logistical capabilities of the French south of Montreal meaning the French were basically just sitting there unable to counter attack and waiting for someone from France to come and bail them out. The French reinforcements showed up eventually but by then Quebec had already fallen. The French tried to recapture Quebec the next year however the French supply fleet got wiped out by a British fleet and they gave up the siege and left it in British hands.
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
Primicerius
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Already Lord J.J. Norwich in his fantastic Byzantine History convincingly argues that it was not the battle which proves pivotal. Before and even after the battle the Turks had no intention to go in to Anatolia. Even after Romanos was put down as emperor everything could have been fine if his sucessor wouldn't have insulted the Turks and declared that the peace settlements, which were more than moderate, were nonesense. It was also no problem in terms of manpower since many of the combatants fled the battle and a huge chunk was made of mercs.
Proud to be a real Prussian.
Domesticus
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
They had no intention solely for the fact that the Roman army was still largely intact, as soon as the political intrigues came and the army disbanded in multiple directions, the Turks waltzed in.
The Seljuks demanded a single large payment, with a further tribute annually.
The annually part was the issue, the Romans did not want to pay tribute, which was a sign of being submissive.
If the Seljuks merely demanded a single large payment, I suppose the Romans would put up with it.
No, the problem was the ensuing civil war, a few rebellions and treason on all sides.
There were actual battles being fought between Roman generals in front of the walls of Constantinople while the Turks were slowly advancing, city after city.
Heck, the western mercenaries you mentioned captured Galatia and proclaimed an independent (somewhat Catholic)kingdom, it was utter chaos.
Last edited by +Marius+; February 21, 2016 at 01:09 PM.
GIVE THEM BLIZZARDS!
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
It's interesting stuff! Had Mountcalm been victorious he, along with the reinforcements from France, could have made a major counter attack against the captured forts that I think had the potential to reverse earlier British gains.
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Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Yes most likely though the British would only be at a slight disadvantage at that point on the whole, at the very least France could have held onto Canada. Had Montcalm accepted the realities of North American war he wouldn't have ordered his allied tribes to limit their raiding. However as he considered their actions and raiding practices as being quite barbaric and rather ungentlemanly he placed restrictions on their archers and rather than employing them as equal assets to his own army he relegated them to a support role. If you have ever seen Last of the Mohicans you will get a good idea of what happened where the French were destroying the British in regular warfare but it was an uphill struggle compared to the scene where Magua ambushes the British marching column (comparable to the Braddock Expedition) so had Montcalm adopted the irregular warfare he may well have given himself a massive boost.
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
vezir-i âzam
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Irregular warfare is of great nuisance value but the generals who served in North America during the eighteenth century knew that conflicts couldn't be won without a well maintained regular army. In regards to bush fighting, the British (very)slowly got a handle on things with the formation of a properly trained and dedicated light infantry force, and the increasing use of colonial ranger units.
大信皇帝
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
The French on the other hand did not possess very many light troops and depended on Quebecois frontiersmen and native allies as light troops and scouts. Montcalm especially saw this very much as a gentleman's game and there were very many idle and unemployed native allies. For example at the Plains of Abraham where Wolfe lured out Montcalm to fight on the open field the French never even attempted to use the French frontiersmen or native allies to form a secondary battle line or even attack the enemy from the wooded areas. Instead these skirmishers/light troops were relegated to covering the French retreat after the French line had retreated and the pursuing British then decided to stop short of the tree line rather than stack upon the unnecessary losses.
At the very least the French could have employed these irregulars to raid much like the British had begun doing along the East Coast. The French could have also attempted spoiling attacks, attrition attacks and ambushes on the British while on the march rather than to simply retreat altogether as the British advanced up the St. Lawrence river. The French should have viewed their native allies/subjects as equal partners rather than as having a smaller contribution. Now that isn't to say that some of these allies didn't prove unreliable in their presence (or lack of presence) but that had equally to do with the French mindset because the French didn't allow them to take plunder so they had no reason to fight. That is to say their not being present during these campaigns is preceded by the French denying them an incentive to do so.
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
vezir-i âzam
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Some of the French regulars who were stationed in North America(Les Compagnies Franches de la Marine) were acquainted with both regular and irregular warfare and were successful in attacking British positions in the Ohio Valley. Irregulars did engage the British left flank during the battle firing from cover. When the French broke the British suffered casualties when pursuing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...ins_of_AbrahamThe Highlanders pursued them to the very Sally Port of the town. The Highlanders returned towards the main body. When the highlanders were gathered together, they lay'd on a separate attack against a large body of Canadians on our flank that were posted in a small village and a Bush of woods. Here, after a wonderful escape all day, we suffered great loss both in Officers and men but at last drove them under the cover of their cannon which likeways did us considerable loss."[54]
There was little chance if they had fought in the manner of regular troops that they would've been successful. Native Americans were especially reluctant to fight out in the open and this was a precedent set early in the conflict when they refused to attack William Johnson's camp at Lake George.
The French simply weren't in a position to do that without making their position even more precarious than it was. The British blockade, a poor harvest, disease, superior logistics and raiding by British and colonial irregulars played a huge part in Montcalm's strategic deliberations, whilst also suppressing the French irregular forces which had operated successfully in the first few years of the war. Some of France's native allies got a good idea of the way things were going and made peace with the British.
大信皇帝
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Wrote a response and lost it, anyone know how I can find what is stored on the site?
"Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō
GIVE THEM BLIZZARDS!
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Bumped for the lols
Does anyone have a particularly interesting pivotal battle from their own country or a nation other than their own that they would like to discuss?
But please for the love of god, no more ancient Greece.
Domesticus
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
How about the battle of Cerami?
Apart from it being utterly incredible and basically incomprehensible even with the lowest estimates for the Muslim army;
it was the battle that pretty much changed the Mediterranean political scene forever and ushered in the Normans as the most powerful seafaring nation for the next century.
Up until that point, the North Africans raided Europe, after that, the Normans raided...well everybody, but you get the point.
Also, it was the first instance of a pope offering indulgence to Christian warriors fighting Muslims and liberating lands, which came in as a very interesting prospect a few decades later.
Ordinarius
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
Iran is a very old country thus so much wars and battles she has on her records ! Yet I think the battle of Ghadesiyeh had/has a profound significance on the fate of my country ! If the result was the opposite and in general the Arab invaders would have failed in their conquest then probably Iran wouldn't be part of Islamic world thus Islam would probably not a major religion -> better world (at least better Middle East) and definitely Iran would've been in much better situation/shape
GIVE THEM BLIZZARDS!
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
I fully agree, Norman badassery aside, it certainly goes down in history (although not mainstream history) as being one of the most lopsided victories of all time. The Sicilian/Muslim forces had their backs broken and from then on didn't seem to have a chance of regaining enough strength to launch a significant counter attack.
While it was a crucial victory for the Normans, allowing them to establish a very powerful Kingdom soon after, I don't think a Sicilian victory would have made much of a difference for the fate of Islam on the island.
Had the Muslim forces won, raids originating from the island against mainland Italy and southern France would have continued, eventually promoting another invasion. Considering that the Crusades began only 6 years after the the Normans finally cemented their control of the island in 1091, I think it's fair to say that Sicily could have become another side show of the Crusades, similar to Portugal. The days of Muslim rule in Sicily would have been numbered I think.
Very Pivotal battle without a doubt, but I think the battle of Nahavand which happened some time afterwards was just as important as the forces for both sides were larger and the Persian defeat marked their very last chance to reverse the tide. Either way, both battles show the importance of well armored heavy infantry which the Muslim forces had in abundance as a result from fighting the Byzantines, compared to the much more lightly equipped Persians.
Comes Limitis
Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
It's a difficult question. I don't think that the American War of Independence or American Civil War really threatened New England existentially. We lost our Canadian friends and all we got were those lousy Southerners...
I could look to the French and Indian Wars, but that was more a matter of whether New France would fall to Britain than if New England would fall to France. Frontiers were raided, but there was little danger to Boston or New York. We had more money, more ships, more people, more weapons, etc.
New England probably owes its existence to William defeating James at the Boyne. As an Irish American this suits me better.
To be clear I'm speaking about New England in the broad sense of the British colonies, particularly in the North and East where the population was more urban. The "Thirteen Colonies' didn't exist yet.
Last edited by Col. Tartleton; July 05, 2016 at 08:58 PM.
The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
The search for intelligent life continues...
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Re: What was the single most important/pivotal battle in your country's history?
From an overall perspective of American history, I would think that The Battle of Chapultepec (signifying the Mexican American war as a whole), is one of the most important. Considering as it broke Mexican power, putting it in a permanently subservient position to the USA, not to mention that the USA gained close to a third of its current landmass as spoils of war.
It's not too much of a stretch to believe that the Americans could have lost either, the US military suffered more casualties in proportion to that of their enemy than in any other subsequent war. Many of the battles were a close run thing so the overwhelming victory that the US achieved was far from a certainty when the war began.
Had the USA lost, the geography of north America could be radically different.
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