Pre-order and Steam refunds

[Frost-Byte]

Remember Batman Arkham Knights launch? I certainly do, and it was awesome from an outlookers perspective. Why? Not because I enjoy watching other peoples sympathy, but now consumers have finally been given a tool to fight Developer such as this.

If Total War Warhammer is released in a sub-par state, many (and I mean many) people will quickly find out and the internet will explode with info about it. Most people will get refunds, and CA will definetly feel the hurt.

So go ahead and prepurchase - Through Steam. There is no downside as long as you're smart, maybe wait a bit to see if the average consumer or fellow total war fan finds it good, get the Chaos Race, and at worst return and watch the backlash unfold.

If anything, we're saving money now because it doesn't seem that CA has been keeping up with the times. If they are willing to cut out and ransom such a huge portion of the game, they appear to not have much confidence in it therefore they appear to be doomed to low profits now, since this is a PC only game from a semi-intelligent community. So to re iterate, possible outcomes.

1; Game releases, it is stable enough to be playable and good; Consumers win, little risk but high reward.
2; Game releases broken and unstable, game is awful, a large percentage of purchasers get refunds; Consumer net win, because CA get significantly diminished profits and a even worse sales rep.
3; Game releases somewhere in the middle, mostly because of game design decisions rather than stability , result; CA gets feedback, consumers if they're smart and study the game before they play there 2 hours, decided to return or not. Even better feedback because it will correlate with game quality since it's now tied to profits, CA can't just talk there way out a rep.

[DavidtheDuke]

Remember Batman Arkham Knights launch? I certainly do, and it was awesome from an outlookers perspective. Why? Not because I enjoy watching other peoples sympathy, but now consumers have finally been given a tool to fight Developer such as this.

If Total War Warhammer is released in a sub-par state, many (and I mean many) people will quickly find out and the internet will explode with info about it. Most people will get refunds, and CA will definetly feel the hurt.

So go ahead and prepurchase - Through Steam. There is no downside as long as you're smart, maybe wait a bit to see if the average consumer or fellow total war fan finds it good, get the Chaos Race, and at worst return and watch the backlash unfold.

If anything, we're saving money now because it doesn't seem that CA has been keeping up with the times. If they are willing to cut out and ransom such a huge portion of the game, they appear to not have much confidence in it therefore they appear to be doomed to low profits now, since this is a PC only game from a semi-intelligent community. So to re iterate, possible outcomes.

1; Game releases, it is stable enough to be playable and good; Consumers win, little risk but high reward.
2; Game releases broken and unstable, game is awful, a large percentage of purchasers get refunds; Consumer net win, because CA get significantly diminished profits and a even worse sales rep.
3; Game releases somewhere in the middle, mostly because of game design decisions rather than stability , result; CA gets feedback, consumers if they're smart and study the game before they play there 2 hours, decided to return or not. Even better feedback because it will correlate with game quality since it's now tied to profits, CA can't just talk there way out a rep.

Been saying this on all the forums, some are getting it.

I do think CA is going to announce DLC 3 months even before release, too. Highly likely at this point anyway.

[scoicarius]

I'm curious, how long is the prepurchase window usually?

Edit: I saw the post above after posting mine.

[The Despondent Mind]

I must admit, steam refunds really alter the game and make the pre-order look almost harmless. To be honest I hope an Arkham Knight debacle happens, only CA doesn't have consoles as another source of income. If they screw up this time, it will literally break them.

[HigoChumbo]

What happened in the Arkham Knight launch? Tons of refunds?

[Chris P. Bacon]

What happened in the Arkham Knight launch? Tons of refunds?

Ya tons of refunds and WBros took it off steam since it was so bad.

[The Despondent Mind]

They still haven't brought it back as far as I know.

[Woody0]

What happened in the Arkham Knight launch? Tons of refunds?

From what little I know the devs lost a lot of money and removed it from Steam. Steam still keeps their fee from the sale when a game is refunded. So the devs not only lost money from the refunds but what ever cut Steam took. So if Steam gets 5% of $50 game that gets refunded the dev is actually losing $52.50.

OP

Pre-ordering, even with refunds available, still sends the wrong message to CA that a DLC like this one is acceptable pre-order bonus. Some may think it is, I do not.

Acceptable to me is skins, art, maps, or anything that is not a major part of the game.

[HigoChumbo]

Well, I honestly didn't expect Steam users to take that so seriously. Little bit of faith in the community restored.

Thats kind of a bright spark of hope (and I really hope that translates into better games and not into the downfall of Steam as a platform for big titles and not just minor indies).

[The Despondent Mind]

Well, I honestly didn't expect Steam users to take that so seriously. Little bit of faith in the community restored.

Thats kind of a bright spark of hope (and I really hope that translates into better games and not into the downfall of Steam as a platform for big titles and not just minor indies).

It's funny how all those irrational fanboys that defend a broken game day and night, jumped to the first opportunity of an easy refund. Man if had that back in rtw2 release.

[DavidtheDuke]

It's funny how all those irrational fanboys that defend a broken game day and night, jumped to the first opportunity of an easy refund. Man if had that back in rtw2 release.

Oh yeah I would've refunded so hard. I didn't buy any DLC for Rome 2 until it was 75% off. If TW:W comes with broken features like R2 did out of the box I'll drop it on the first day, that's why i love the refund system and preorder bonuses now don't really matter.

[Person012345]

Well, I honestly didn't expect Steam users to take that so seriously. Little bit of faith in the community restored.

Thats kind of a bright spark of hope (and I really hope that translates into better games and not into the downfall of Steam as a platform for big titles and not just minor indies).

Well the big titles can't hide. Steam only implemented the policy due to the threat of an EU lawsuit. If somewhere else becomes prominent that will have to do the same thing.

[youngfool]

Still 6 months till release, and CA has already occupying themselves with making DLCS. This is outrageous, it defiles the purposes of DLCs, which are suppose to enhance the experience of a completed game, instead CA has been exploiting DLCs to strip its games apart.

Some of you might argue this particular "Chaos Warriors Race Pack" DLC is harmless because its 'free', whilst other are convinced that steam refund has coerced developer to be more accountable, but let me demonstrate how those mentalities has played right into corporate favour.

CA has been training us like Pavlov's dog, using its 'quality (stripped) contents' to justify its 'free' pre-release DLCs, which are only 'free' for a limited amount of time let me remind you, deceiving consumers with false generosities to gradually normalizes this absurd relation as they increase the volume of this ridiculous practice. Its as if they are offering us 'free' roofs and walls as we purchase their houses, and eventually paying addition for its doors, lights and windows.

Whilst the implementation of steam refund has been generally applauded we must be vigilant and be aware that this refund policy is designed exclusively to target small developers, with limited game contents and mechanics that can be grasped within 2 hours or less. Triple A games such as total war with its behemoth contents can not be thoroughly examined within its 2 hours restriction and that is if we can disengage ourselves from its alluring universe and regain our track of time. Just think about how much time is needed to pick a faction and get the game started, and once we are in the game, the first thing we do is to read everything. Think how long did it took us to figure out Rome 2 was garbage in its initial release, surely not within the first few hours, and again i've learned my lessons from Mad Max, discovering its repetitively banal nature after several hours of gameplay and realizing it doesnt come remotely close to its $80 value. Think about the last time you trusted a triple A game or mmorpg review that's clearly did not invest hours and hours game play, again we all surely remember IGN's laughable 8.8/10 rating of Rome 2 in its initial release.

Thus not only should we not preorder this upcoming series, i advocate all of us to boycott this game, to take a stand against ridiculous DLCs, if only for the initial launch week. To quote Martin Luther King:"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy... (is not due) to the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people." DLCs, especially pre-release DLCs, is the tragedy of our times and this is our chance to fight against bare bone corporate extortion, let us unite and have our demands heard.

[Fanest]

So if Steam gets 5% of $50 game that gets refunded the dev is actually losing $52.50.

Steam cut has always been around 30%

[Leesin]

Well my view on it is that if they're making DLC while they're still actually making the game itself, when you buy the game aren't you technically already paying them for the DLC?. Considering that the time they spent making the DLC was during the games development, the wages they pay the guys to make them etc, so it should have been a part of the game already, or it shouldn't have even been worked on until the full game had been finished. With the games non pre-order sales on release you are still going to be paying the wages of the DLC creators. It's just a tactic to try and strong arm people into pre-ordering a £50 game 6 months in advance when they have no idea if the game's good or not.

Steam refund comes into play here, but 2 hours play time is hardly enough to judge a TW game to its full extent yourself, especially if you have any technical issues on release, you will be refunding only on the opinions and knowledge of other gamers. If the launch isn't horrendous I will probably obtain the game key from a site that will sell it cheaper than £50, even with the DLC on top it will be cheaper than pre-ordering it on Steam. No refunds in that method, but a cheaper price to play a game on release that I will probably buy at some point regardless, if it isn't deemed terrible by the majority.

[Person012345]

The refund idea is that you don't play it, or perhaps just give it a cursory inspection (Rome II's problems were readily apparent within 2 hours and I have specific ideas of things I may find problematic in the gameplay of warhammer) but derive most of your information from reviews from trusted sources. Also, steam aren't necessarily always strict about refunds. It'll be possible to get one outside the policy if you have a good reason (or if you're just aggressive enough in negotiating). I mean, if you don't buy it then you'll also only be getting your information from the same sources anyway. With refunds as they are, pre-orders are a no-risk prospect for the buyer, which is great. And if sega have already counted their cash from preorders, ripping that cash back away from them may hit them harder than simply not purchasing in the first place. I preordered it so I can get the chaos DLC for "free" (though I fully count the price of the DLC in the asking price of the product anyway) but if it doesn't sound like it'll be worth the price from reviews I will return it.

[MissRarity]

Here is my two cents

SEGA want cash and they know that TW will sell. Heck, the game can be as crap as anything, it will sell. We need our TW, in all its forms. So, they attach a ''free'' DLC to tempt you in to buying it early. Reason? Before price-cuts, steam sales, and so forth has reduced the price, they want that full cash.

Add to the fact that TW games all seem to be quite unstable at release, and you got yourself a major issue. Also, how long will that ''free'' DLC remain ''Free''? The Greek ing states was not free afterwards!

I refuse to buy this game outright. From its small and limited faction roster, to its bloody Day 1 DLC and several more, are on the way.

this game.

I don't want to buy this game at all, let alone pre-order it, witch will keep this pre-order circus going, and going.

[Leesin]

The refund idea is that you don't play it, or perhaps just give it a cursory inspection (Rome II's problems were readily apparent within 2 hours and I have specific ideas of things I may find problematic in the gameplay of warhammer) but derive most of your information from reviews from trusted sources. Also, steam aren't necessarily always strict about refunds. It'll be possible to get one outside the policy if you have a good reason (or if you're just aggressive enough in negotiating). I mean, if you don't buy it then you'll also only be getting your information from the same sources anyway. With refunds as they are, pre-orders are a no-risk prospect for the buyer, which is great. And if sega have already counted their cash from preorders, ripping that cash back away from them may hit them harder than simply not purchasing in the first place. I preordered it so I can get the chaos DLC for "free" (though I fully count the price of the DLC in the asking price of the product anyway) but if it doesn't sound like it'll be worth the price from reviews I will return it.

I think they forget there will be ways to try the game without buying it ( this is not up for discussion as one of those options is illegal, but people WILL do it, especially considering the major let downs and disappointment past releases have produced ) and there will be cheaper places to buy the Steam Key outside of Steam, which isn't illegal, just your money isn't protected. But if you know what sites are safe and reliable then there is no problem, one of the sites I have used a lot for a long period of time I have never had any issues with and I have seen their own pre-order for TW Warhammer for £25, I am not sure if it includes the DLC but the DLC will also sell on there for cheaper than on Steam store, meaning you'll get the game and the DLC for cheaper than the pre-order price, without pre-ordering. If SEGA and CA want loyal customers then they need to stop shafting everyone.

[Person012345]

I think they forget there will be ways to try the game without buying it ( this is not up for discussion as one of those options is illegal, but people WILL do it, especially considering the major let downs and disappointment past releases have produced ) and there will be cheaper places to buy the Steam Key outside of Steam, which isn't illegal, just your money isn't protected. But if you know what sites are safe and reliable then there is no problem, one of the sites I have used a lot for a long period of time I have never had any issues with and I have seen their own pre-order for TW Warhammer for £25, I am not sure if it includes the DLC but the DLC will also sell on there for cheaper than on Steam store, meaning you'll get the game and the DLC for cheaper than the pre-order price, without pre-ordering. If SEGA and CA want loyal customers then they need to stop shafting everyone.

Out of interest does your source have refunds? Because I am highly skeptical that this game will live up to expectations. The money back guarantee is more important to me than raw price (if it does live up to expectations then I won't even care about the price).

[Didz]

After Empire Totalwar I vowed never to pre-order any TW game again, and never to get suckered by a collectors edition or pre-order bonus. so, this is a non-starter as far as I am concerned. I don't buy any TW game now until it's been thoroughly user tested, fixed, and reduced to a price that reflects its true quality. Consequently, I've only owned Rome 2 about a year and I am still watching Attilla. Though its on my wishlist, along with Warhammer.