Chaos Warriors Race IS pre-order DLC

[Frost, colonel]

I'm just going to throw my 2 cents into the mix here. I really wish more game developers were taking the CD Projekt Red approach to development and DLC. To anyone unfamiliar with the Witcher series CD Projekt basically are known for treating their customers extremely well with respect to free content and DLC. Their latest game the Witcher 3 had 16 Free Minor DLC packages that they wanted to include in the final release but were beaten to the punch by the release date. Rather than charge for the DLC they released it for free regardless if you preordered it on not. They charged for a very well crafted and good DLC story some months after release.

Why am I telling you this? Because when I bought the game at release I got everything that the developers had worked on to that point. Extra things that they wanted to add in were added later for FREE.

This Chaos Race pre-order is taking content from the finished game and locking it behind DLC. It treats loyal fans like dogshit. CA are saying to their loyal fans, "You were going to buy it anyway so what are you complaining about?" That's a very presumptuous and disrespectful stance to have towards your loyal fans let alone any potential customers.

Taking content from the game and locking it behind DLC ON RELEASE is goddamn unacceptable. It's not a skin, or an extra unit here and there which I can stomach if people want to fork out a few bucks here and there. But this is content that is finished for the game and instead of saying "Hey guys, we didn't think we would finish Chaos on release and were going to release it much later. We finished ahead of schedule and now Chaos is added to the base game for everyone, for free."

What I would like to know purely from a marketing perspective is, how well decent company practices effect pre and post release sales. Reading/watching reviews on Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 it seems the fans/reviews have such a positive stance that it will generate sustained pre-launch sales, ie that gamers speak highly of these releases and interest many others. These 2 games come up alot between people I work with and friends in a positive way. It would be interesting to note how important the sales are from positive feedback generating post release sales actually are, because Sega and CA really don't seem interested at all judging by their actions, perhaps they believe they can sell enough units no matter how they conduct business.

[Ichon]

I am more familiar with Witcher since I played that series starting with the first game which I tried just out of curiosity when I was a bit disappointed in Dragon Age. I recommended it to everyone I knew and wrote a couple reviews about it due to a combination of gameplay and CD Projeckt Red's stand on DRM which at the time was ruining gaming for me. I still won't buy Ubisoft games though I've relaxed a bit about EA from stuff that started around 2006 when Witcher 1 first appeared.

Sales of Witcher series is rising faster than any other game franchise currently- Witcher 3 surpassed Witcher 2 in a couple months of sales. Personally while I am a fan of Witcher gameplay I strongly suspect a large part of it is a statement by people in support of the attitude of the developers. I've only every bought extra copies of games for friends three times and Witcher doesn't even let friends play together and I still bought extra copies. So at least for me the attitude displayed is as important as the game content and quality. Attitude alone wins a few points where I sill buy most Paradox games despite feeling they sometimes suffer a bit in quality but the staff is great and the developer diaries are fairly detailed with lots of Devs answering questions etc. I still buy occasional EA games due to the content being interesting and most of my friends play however I had a total ban for several years against EA games and only relaxed it slightly because EA modified its attitude a bit (still not great but better) and good interaction with EA tech support for Mass Effect 2 (which a friend had insisted I buy). I would never buy either of those developers games for friends and even if Witcher 4 was somehow very disappointing I have sufficient goodwill built up that I'd still pre-order Witcher 5 though I am pretty sure if that also failed somehow if the developers attitude was open about mistakes etc I would still suport them though probably not pre-order. The only thing I can think of that would be better for Witcher is some type of party based system or at least more often having 1 or 2 companions for a bit longer parts of quests/explorations. Otherwise Witcher franchise combines high quality and good attitude and while I think they can do a bit better every game I've played has been quite fun. I'm really looking forward to their sci-fi RPG coming in a couple years- Deux Ex is not bad but also not something I pre-order.

[Deedlit]

Be nice if they give them out for free after a year or so.

[Stark_7]

Be nice if they give them out for free after a year or so.

That was mentioned on Reddit (along with the *ahem* "real" release date): https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...icture_of_the/

[Martin N]

[Imperator Artorius]

Is that actually legit?

[Stark_7]

Is that actually legit?

The release date? No but it makes a good point.
The whole thing comes down to trust and value for money. I don't trust them enough to pre order and neither trust their explanation for the Chaos dlc nor believe it's value for money so will simply wait to get it all when 2 things have happened:

1. The game is actually finished (major bugs fixed so it's playable and all the DLC released so I can assemble TWs latest jigsaw).
2. It's at a price I think is good value.

I'm pretty patient when I want to be and not pre ordering (which I've always thought was silly) or buying full price is the best way to discourage this practice. It's not like there's any shortage of games out there.

[korsakoff]

Well...game is practically dead to me now once they released this info. Been away for a little while and finally found out the news. I won't support a developer that continues to do such business practices. I skipped Atilla and will skip this as well even if i'm a rather big Warhammer fan. I'm not even salty just disappointed.

[Stark_7]

Well...game is practically dead to me now once they released this info. Been away for a little while and finally found out the news. I won't support a developer that continues to do such business practices. I skipped Atilla and will skip this as well even if i'm a rather big Warhammer fan. I'm not even salty just disappointed.

I get what you mean. Personally, I'll just wait for a sale. This way, I get the game (post patches) and all DLC for the same price (or less) as the release price without encouraging pre-orders or ridiculous DLCs and not giving them full price. Just with a bit of patience I get it all without playing along with their decisions.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/325610/

You can get Atilla, 4 faction packs and the Last Roman thing now for €30 with the steam sale. It cost like €40 on release. It hasn't even been out a year.

[Lord Baal]

Not to mention the added plus of mods if you are into them. I own all total war games but Rome 2 and Atilla. I'll buy Rome 2 whenever it hits the beneath 10 bucks mark and play it with Divide et Impera mod. Atilla will probably be bought latter or as a bundle or something. I can wait, I can patiently wait, I'm not the average compulsive teen playing call of duty CA is marketing right now.

For the looks of it Total Warhammer will have to wait too, but if its a good game I'll probably buy it even before Rome 2, and simply wait till it has your standard 20~30% discount or something.

Of course that's it if the economical and political crisis here allows me to do it and doesn't kill me first.

[GasMask]

Not bothered at all.

Theirs far worse gaming companies doing much worse for DLC, I think although CA need to maybe lessen the DLC stuff this was fine by me because with pre ordering the game i will get the chaos. Pity that everyone will somewhat talk rubbish about pre orders with CA, when the likes of EA and Ubisoft are doing stuff 100x worse than CA and they wont even give an explanation like CA did for instance.

I get that not everyone has faith, but pre ordering a game ensures you get to play it on the day of release, and for that incentive CA are allowing those who have faith in them to get the chaos race pack which to me is a nice addition. Like i mentioned previously, go and look at the horrible DLC practices of EA & Ubisoft first and compare them to CA and look at how good CA actually are compared to those two. We certainly need less of of the race pack DLC stuff from CA agreed, but they are gods children compared to the devils children EA & Ubisoft.

And yes im a huge fan of CA so im obviously a little biased. I have enjoyed all their games even with all their issues.

Cheers. Pre ordering the high king edition now.

[Frost, colonel]

My concern GasMask is that the Triumvirate of Evil(CA, Sega and Gamesworkshop) may well be planning to up the anti regarding future DLC, just because there are far worse practitioners of the art out there doesn't mean others would not mind some of that action. And how much encouragement do they need before they feel that is the way to go?

Across the 3 releases for Warhammer I think we will see an unprecedented quantity of DLC. Which is fine by me as long as it's not at the expense of cut content in any way shape or form.
So far it's £50 for a base game of four factions(unless I pre-order of course).

Hope you enjoy the High King edition, please be kind enough to comment on the canvas map when it arrives, I wanted to get this edition to frame said map on my wall in my gaming room, but personal ethics have stopped me from making said purchase.

[HigoChumbo]

Pity that everyone will somewhat talk rubbish about pre orders with CA, when the likes of EA and Ubisoft are doing stuff 100x worse than CA and they wont even give an explanation like CA did for instance.

I don't agree in this instance. For instance, for Star Wars Battlefront, which right now is pretty much the casual commercial EA game par excellence, the pre-order bonuses were pretty much untrascendental. Just a few e-motes and flavour alternative weapons. I have said it several times, what CA has done with Chaos would be on par with making Boba Fett the pre-order bonus (or even Darth Vader, given that Chaos is actually going to be the main antagonist in TW:Warhammer).


Kind of the same goes for Ubisoft. The pre-order bonus for AC:Syndicate is a side-mission (which is not ideal, but that I imagine is terrible, or at the very least, avoidable) and for Rainbow Six Siege it's just early beta access, some weapon skins and a steel case, and that's actually the perfect example of what a pre-order bonus should be.

I get that not everyone has faith, but pre ordering a game ensures you get to play it on the day of release

That was the case some years ago when most copies were physical and sent through post. Now it's not such an issue, just for large games which benefit from pre-loading, and then again, you would get the same benefits pre-ordering a week before release. There is absolutelly no incentive to pre-order now, other than someone wanting to give CA a vote of confidence, which I personally think they don't deserve at all at this moment.

Like i mentioned previously, go and look at the horrible DLC practices of EA & Ubisoft first and compare them to CA and look at how good CA actually are compared to those two.

Thing is, all this is not about DLCs, which you will find most people hare have nothing against (as far as the content is priced reasonably), this is about pre-order bonuses, and honestly, CA has surpased both EA and Ubisoft in style with this one. I insist on the Boba Fett thing.

And yes im a huge fan of CA so im obviously a little biased. I have enjoyed all their games even with all their issues.

It's safe to say that everyone in this forum is. That does not mean we have to put up with all the crap they are pulling off lately. Specially not if we don't want them to continue repeating the same crap again and again.

Cheers. Pre ordering the high king edition now.

Well, enjoy it, buddy

[Frost, colonel]

It's safe to say that everyone in this forum is. That does not mean we have to put up with all the crap they are pulling off lately. Specially not if we don't want them to continue repeating the same crap again and again.

This is my growing concern, in that dubious practices will indeed only increase. My hope is that the fuss over Chaos might slow it down somewhat. The simple fact remains that companies increasing employ such tactics because the massed consumer base just laps it up. Thus only encouraging them towards further endeavors of ill gotten gain, it must be like stealing the sweets from the babies mouth.

[Lord Baal]

The excuse of other companies doing things far worst is like saying, yeah this company sells baby seal meat and they kill them with clubs in the most painful way, however it buy it anyway because other companies torture the seals with Justin Bieber music before killing them with clubs, so they are worst.

[LordInvictus]

My concern GasMask is that the Triumvirate of Evil(CA, Sega and Gamesworkshop) may well be planning to up the anti regarding future DLC, just because there are far worse practitioners of the art out there doesn't mean others would not mind some of that action. And how much encouragement do they need before they feel that is the way to go?

Game developers aren't really renowned for their extravagant lifestyles, especially those in a more niche genre, so CA isn't exactly doing this out of greed. SEGA on the other hand...

Across the 3 releases for Warhammer I think we will see an unprecedented quantity of DLC. Which is fine by me as long as it's not at the expense of cut content in any way shape or form.

But what constitutes cut content? Judging by the opinions expressed in this forum, everything other than campaign packs are cut content. Preorder faction? Cut content. Faction released several months after game launch? Cut content. Faction released over a year after launch? Cut content.

[Stark_7]

But what constitutes cut content? Judging by the opinions expressed in this forum, everything other than campaign packs are cut content. Preorder faction? Cut content. Faction released several months after game launch? Cut content. Faction released over a year after launch? Cut content.

Well that's hyperbole but I agree, it's hard to be clear about what exactly is the definition of cut content and expansion packs. What I do believe is that if CA made this game 10 years ago, Chaos would be in the release.

I think the image below shows what many of us are annoyed by and fear:

[HigoChumbo]

Game developers aren't really renowned for their extravagant lifestyles, especially those in a more niche genre, so CA isn't exactly doing this out of greed. SEGA on the other hand...But what constitutes cut content? Judging by the opinions expressed in this forum, everything other than campaign packs are cut content. Preorder faction? Cut content. Faction released several months after game launch? Cut content. Faction released over a year after launch? Cut content.

It's not just just one pre-order faction. It's the equivallent of making a WW2 game and selling nazi germany as an additional, non-essential dlc even when knowing that it's a core faction and by far one of the most requested ones.

If they want to exploit that to make profits, which is perfectly legit... at least bother to make it a fully fledged content release. It's not preciselly Ogre Kingdoms or Kislev we are talking about.

[Frost, colonel]

But what constitutes cut content? Judging by the opinions expressed in this forum, everything other than campaign packs are cut content. Preorder faction? Cut content. Faction released several months after game launch? Cut content. Faction released over a year after launch? Cut content.

A tricky one indeed for the many to agree upon, as I'm sure much conjecture could be applied to said subject, particulary when you consider that Sega do have some right to make money. But seen as I would of thought that there is so much detail and scope in the Warhammer world, that surely they can make lots and lots of value for money DLC without even having to step into any grey area's?

[GasMask]

The truth matters btw,

SEGA have pushed CA to their boundaries which we have already seen with Rome 2's disastrous release. SEGA have done this to other developers also not just CA. SEGA are basically holding the whip, CA are truly being bullied in a sense to release games much faster now. I feel that CA have been able to cope much better with TW: Warhammer probably because they have had more time to develop it, though we can clearly see a more refined and polished title compared to Rome 2 & Atilla IMO which is good .

I feel the blame should be directed at SEGA when it comes to pointing the finger but then looking at the comments in this thread truly saddens me, as CA are clearly not in control of what SEGA is pushing them to do. I thank CA for making a post explaining why they had to do the DLC race pack though, thank you for being honest CA. Theirs not many developers these days who are as committed as CA btw, the haters and whiners can say what they want, but the true fans of the Total War Series will always stick with CA no matter how far SEGA push them.