The Why didn't I win syndrome.......A Bane to all but the fiercest of Written Warriors

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Hi...

my name's Alan and I have been given the honor of creating storyboards for all of you over at Tale of the Week. The topic of this thread is a very tangible threat and the last time out when I was shopkeep for TotW it affected at least 7 out of every 10 of my Tale writers. I've seen many accomplished writers quit competitive writing altogether because this repugnance took hold of them and was overwhelming.

I would love to hear you'all initial thoughts on this and I'll dabble in specifics as time goes on. So.... did I prick anyone's interest with this?

[Alwyn]

You got my interest. I think this is a real issue. This could be an issue for writers in all of our competitions.

My first AAR, Empire of Liberty, didn't get very far. When my second AAR, The Lion and the Eagle, got positive feedback on the thread, I entered the MAARC a couple of times. I didn't win. I was disappointed, of course. Even so, something good came out of entering - more people viewed and commented on my AAR. I hope that people who don't win will see the benefits of entering. But perhaps that applies more to AARs and Creative Writing that entries for TotW - in TotW, you're not trying to build up a readership for a series of chapters.

If we keep entering and not winning, then the temptation to give up could increase - and that seems to have been your experience, with TotW writers, Mega Tortas. Where does this lead us? I have a couple of tentative thoughts - these are just speculations, I'm not announcing any definite proposals here:-

- Different writers have different strengths. Some people are great at creating characters who seem so real. Some writers conjure incredible scenes from history. Some of us excel at weaving together stunning images and descriptions of battles to create stirring drama. One thing I really liked about the Writers' Study Yearly Awards which Hitai organized was that, to win, you didn't have to write the AAR of the Year or Creative Writing of the Year. You could win by writing the best plot, the best protagonist or the best battle descriptions. Perhaps TotW could invite people to vote for different things - in one TotW, voters are invited to vote for the 'Best Dialogue', in the next TotW, 'Best Action', then 'Best Protagonist' and so on?

- When we enter a competition and don't win, we don't receive feedback on how we can improve. If we keep doing our best and keep losing, I can see how frustration could lead to giving up. As an alternative to the suggestion above, could TotW become a branch campus of TWC University (either occasionally or continually)? I imagine that it would be too much work for the TotW organiser to give feedback to a group of writers every week. Instead, we could have a 'peer feedback' system - everyone who enters a story provides feedback for another writer. (For example, the first person who enters could give feedback for the second person who enters, and so on; after the deadline, the person who entered last gives feedback to the person who entered first). The idea is that we would enter the competition to get feedback - and reputation, both for writing and giving feedback - so there would not be winners and losers. Instead of having a vote for every TotW, we could have periodic TotW competitions - or TotW writers could be encouraged to develop their ideas in the Creative Writing area and enter the Monthly Creative Writing Competition.

If you know and love the TotW, just as it is, please don't worry - as I said, I'm not announcing changes, I simply want to contribute to a discussion about how to overcome the syndrome that Mega Tortas has identified.

[Merchant of Venice]

I too can relate to this and I agree with Alwyn that it could definitely be a problem in our competitions. It's strange because at the beginning I was aware that I didn't really have a chance in most of the competitions and I entered them mostly for the exposure. But as I become slightly more known at times I felt like that. It affects me more though in rl competitions though.

This is why I try and market the MAARC and MCWC to newer writers as a chance at exposure more than a competition. Because I know that often new writers just aren't well known enough to get 1st place straight away, though there are definitely exceptions to the rule. As Alwyn said, that was also why the Yearly Awards were so great. ToTW can be hard to newcomers as well if you don't get an idea straight away so a couple of losses could definitely uninspire (I know not a word) someone. But all in all, I feel writing above anything else is an excretes in discipline and determination so I encourage anyone who feels that they cannot win to continue trying because they most definitely. Cause people like Radzeer and Robin had to start somewhere.

[Lortano]

The 'Why didn't I win syndrome' is particularly difficult for people who don't have much confidence in their own writing ability. The fact that one loses can help reinforce your own belief that you suck, when the simple fact is that one chapter of a really good story is not going to top another good story that is longer and has had more time to ingrain itself into the minds of the readers.

If anyone has any issue with writing confidence, feel free to PM any of the local moderators and they'll be helpful.

[Caillagh de Bodemloze]

Encouraging people to see the competitions as a way to get exposure for their writing (rather than just a thing to win) is great. I certainly found it very helpful when Merchant encouraged me to enter my AAR into the MAARC - I'd never have had the confidence to think it was worth entering without Merchant saying that. (Thank you, Merchant!) And because I didn't expect to win, or come second or third, even just one person voting for me would have counted as a huge success in my mind. Frankly, the fact that Merchant thought my AAR was good enough to enter already felt like a huge success, even before I'd entered. So - in my experience, at least - Lortano is right to say that the local moderators are very supportive and helpful.

I'm not sure I'd have had the confidence to PM somebody like Merchant, though. I really like Lortano's idea of encouraging people to PM; maybe we should say more often (or in a sticky somewhere, or both) that PMing the local content staff about your writing is OK. But for the people like me who might not feel able to do that, maybe it would also be helpful if we all, whether or not we're staff members, join Merchant in his mission of encouragement. Maybe we could comment on people's writing and tell the writers what we think is good about it. If we can build people's confidence outside competitions, maybe they'll feel more able to keep entering when they don't win.

And when people enter a competition, maybe we could tell them what we think is good about their entry, even if we're voting for someone else. Because if people don't vote for you, that is disappointing. But I know sometimes I've wanted to vote for more entries than I was allowed to. Perhaps the people I didn't vote for thought I hated their work, but it wasn't true. If I'd said that I really liked their story/AAR as well as the one(s) I voted for, would that have helped them feel better about entering again?


Oh, and it occurs to me that - at least in my experience - if you comment on other people's writing, it's more likely they'll read (and comment on) your writing. So commenting on someone else's work can be good for your confidence, too.

[Tigellinus]

Encouraging people to see the competitions as a way to get exposure for their writing (rather than just a thing to win) is great. I certainly found it very helpful when Merchant encouraged me to enter my AAR into the MAARC - I'd never have had the confidence to think it was worth entering without Merchant saying that. (Thank you, Merchant!) And because I didn't expect to win, or come second or third, even just one person voting for me would have counted as a huge success in my mind. Frankly, the fact that Merchant thought my AAR was good enough to enter already felt like a huge success, even before I'd entered. So - in my experience, at least - Lortano is right to say that the local moderators are very supportive and helpful.

I'm not sure I'd have had the confidence to PM somebody like Merchant, though. I really like Lortano's idea of encouraging people to PM; maybe we should say more often (or in a sticky somewhere, or both) that PMing the local content staff about your writing is OK. But for the people like me who might not feel able to do that, maybe it would also be helpful if we all, whether or not we're staff members, join Merchant in his mission of encouragement. Maybe we could comment on people's writing and tell the writers what we think is good about it. If we can build people's confidence outside competitions, maybe they'll feel more able to keep entering when they don't win.

And when people enter a competition, maybe we could tell them what we think is good about their entry, even if we're voting for someone else. Because if people don't vote for you, that is disappointing. But I know sometimes I've wanted to vote for more entries than I was allowed to. Perhaps the people I didn't vote for thought I hated their work, but it wasn't true. If I'd said that I really liked their story/AAR as well as the one(s) I voted for, would that have helped them feel better about entering again?


Oh, and it occurs to me that - at least in my experience - if you comment on other people's writing, it's more likely they'll read (and comment on) your writing. So commenting on someone else's work can be good for your confidence, too.

I cannot add anything to what has been said. All of the ideas have already been taken

But, what I can say is that you make some excellent points! Especially about your idea of how we advertise that people may PM and such. When I was new to TWC Shankbot was the one who aided me in my writing and gave me confidence about. Most of that came through the use of PMs, and they were extensively useful! So, I wholeheartedly support the idea!

Thanks (I still need my morning coffee, alright?)

Tigellinus