TROY - BBC

[Kyriakos]

Zeus has the prime role in the story, he is the puppetmaster: everyone meets is predetermined fate.

This isn't good.
Also, which demigods die in the trojan war? IIRC Achilles isn't a demigod; only offspring of actual gods are, and Achilles was born by an immortal being (nymph) and a human, so is not in this category. Herakles was a demigod.
I am not aware of Zeus' plan in the trojan war; is it there in Homer's epic? (i know i should have read it by now... )

[athanaric]

(i know i should have read it by now... )

Pretty sure the Licence Agreement of Greek citizenship requires you to uninstall if you haven't read the Iliad.
You're now officially a Turk

[Kyriakos]

But i read other ancient stuff, including half of Plato. I think i can stay

[John Doe]

This isn't good.
Also, which demigods die in the trojan war? IIRC Achilles isn't a demigod; only offspring of actual gods are, and Achilles was born by an immortal being (nymph) and a human, so is not in this category. Herakles was a demigod.
I am not aware of Zeus' plan in the trojan war; is it there in Homer's epic? (i know i should have read it by now... )

A nymph is a deity that makes Achilles a demigod, Helen of troy was a demigod too, but yeah, two is hardly a crowd.

I only read (well, had to read) the odyssey at school, I escaped the Iliad.... but I clearly remember my teacher explaining that there wasn't a set template for any greek stories, each poet had their own version (sometime contradictory in parts) that evolved over time and even changed depending on the audience or the point he wanted to make at the time. Homer's version is only the most famous one, the author of the BBC serie should also be allowed to give their own twist or take inspiration from different sources. According to the OP, the story will start way before the last battle for Troy, Zeus absence will be hard to explain.

[Kyriakos]

A nymph is a deity that makes Achilles a demigod, Helen of troy was a demigod too, but yeah, two is hardly a crowd.

I only read (well, had to read) the odyssey at school, I escaped the Iliad.... but I clearly remember my teacher explaining that there wasn't a set template for any greek stories, each poet had their own version (sometime contradictory in parts) that evolved over time and even changed depending on the audience or the point he wanted to make at the time. Homer's version is only the most famous one, the author of the BBC serie should also be allowed to give their own twist or take inspiration from different sources. According to the OP, the story will start way before the last battle for Troy, Zeus absence will be hard to explain.

IIRC to be a demigod you have to be born by a god (one god as parent; one immortal as parent doesn't seem to cut it), not just any immortal being (there are many, most of which are nymphs, which number in the hundreds) Demigods probably cannot die either, or if they die they become gods. Eg Herakles. Compare with Achilles, who in the Odyssey is just another dead mortal in Hades

Re the point about some Bbc director doing his thing, well, he isn't Homer ^^

[Condottiere 40K]

I think that nymphs are more like kami.

Some may need psychological help and our understanding.

[John Doe]

Demigods probably cannot die either, or if they die they become gods. Eg Herakles. Compare with Achilles, who in the Odyssey is just another dead mortal in Hades

They are mortal with a soul, a life expectancy but have some extraordinary abilities that distinguished them from mere human. Helena had beauty, Achilles was a great warrior, Herakles was very strong, etc... So when they died their soul went in Hades, except for Herakles (and a few other) who was made divine by Zeus as he died and was welcomed in Olympus instead, without divine intervention all demigod went in Hades.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Man I kinda feel bad for the actor but what in the actual . BBC just wants to troll using the money they get from the government. However I am all for making Hera a Chinese lesbian.

Anyway why in hell is Zeus even in this story? I seem to recall that Zeus was neutral during the entire conflict.

[Kyriakos]

Man I kinda feel bad for the actor but what in the actual . BBC just wants to troll using the money they get from the government. However I am all for making Hera a Chinese lesbian.

Anyway why in hell is Zeus even in this story? I seem to recall that Zeus was neutral during the entire conflict.

Which makes the trolling even more blatant :/

Seriously, tv series should not be about trolling. It becomes part of the problem

And, according to IMDB, this is Achilles:



I suppose there is no cultural appropriation, they couldn't find greek actors or anyone looking at least irish/scottish as usual.

Morelike Troyll, amirite

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

... um... wtf is this travesty? Then again it is BBC trying to pursue their minorities quotas which they have been doing for years so I shouldn't even be surprised.

[Kyriakos]

^ You make Patroklos cry

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Really? I mean , what the hell show?

[Kyriakos]

Guess they really pulled the trolljan horse on that one

[Copperknickers II]

Shocking amounts of racism in this thread. Usually in BBC dramas, ancient mediterranean types are played by ethnic British actors who are not remotely authentic-looking so it hardly makes a difference if some in Troy are black rather than pasty white Celts. If I want to watch an authentic TV show about Troy I'll watch a Greek version. The Iliad is the national epic of Western civilisation and has been done to death so if you don't like this one just wait 20 years for the next British one, or 5 years for the next one in another country. Maybe having black actors will get black people to watch the show? There were zero black people on my course when I studied ancient history at uni and no wonder, it must hardly seem relevant to them. There were whites, South Asians, East Asians, but there's a real problem with engaging black people in history, it's the least popular subject for black students in the UK after veterinary science.

[athanaric]

Shocking amounts of racism in this thread.

If you think that's a "shocking amount of racism", then you haven't been exposed much to the real thing.

Usually in BBC dramas, ancient mediterranean types are played by ethnic British actors who are not remotely authentic-looking so it hardly makes a difference if some in Troy are black rather than pasty white Celts.

That is known, so why make it worse by being even more ahistorical?

If I want to watch an authentic TV show about Troy I'll watch a Greek version.

The question you should be asking is why don't the big British and American entertainment business team up with locals to produce things like this; they'd get appropriately looking actors plus the whole Anglo-American professionalism and budget (also, might help to cancel out other flaws in local productions, such as bad acting, over-dramatization, random dance numbers, or excessive nationalism; depending on country). Why do they never do that?
Instead, everything about European history or mythology is ethnically Americanized - even in British shows/movies - and the usual suspects have the gall to complain about "racism" if it isn't. Every. ing. time. Everything must have 70% sort-of-British white people, 10-20% black people, some random East Asians etc. ing retarded.

The Iliad is the national epic of Western civilisation and has been done to death so if you don't like this one just wait 20 years for the next British one, or 5 years for the next one in another country. Maybe having black actors will get black people to watch the show? There were zero black people on my course when I studied ancient history at uni and no wonder, it must hardly seem relevant to them. There were whites, South Asians, East Asians, but there's a real problem with engaging black people in history, it's the least popular subject for black students in the UK after veterinary science.

Do you think lying to them about the involvement of black people in ancient European history is a great way to start their interest in the subject?

[Condottiere 40K]

Half the Nazi roles are filled by British actors.

Idris Elba would make a great Hitler.

[Kyriakos]

Half the Nazi roles are filled by British actors.

Idris Elba would make a great Hitler.

Idris Elba is really cool. And he managed to still look very cool even in a movie like Pacific Rim

That said, he wouldn't go near this bbc crap fest, cause he wants his career to not end

@Copperknickers: don't get in a twist (sorry, studied in the Uk for 3 years, so am infected :/ ), this has nothing to do with racism; it is just noting that this stupid bbc production reeks of being a ploy, using black actors to try to cover up for having botched a 2-year project, so that some may buy into the trolling and do as you did

[Kyriakos]

And now for something completely different

[Knight of Heaven]

Half the Nazi roles are filled by British actors.

Idris Elba would make a great Hitler.

He does play a Norse God now that i remember it.

[Copperknickers II]

If you think that's a "shocking amount of racism", then you haven't been exposed much to the real thing.

Sorry, but aren't you white? What would you know about racism?

That is known, so why make it worse by being even more ahistorical?

The Iliad is not a historical work, it's a work of fiction loosely inspired by real events of which we know almost nothing. So nobody should expect an adaptation of it to be historically accurate.

The question you should be asking is why don't the big British and American entertainment business team up with locals to produce things like this; they'd get appropriately looking actors plus the whole Anglo-American professionalism and budget

They do, every so often. Mel Gibson being a great example since he does things in the original language. But I don't think the Iliad is a good candidate for that, not least because it's not really seen as a Greek story in the UK, it's seen as belonging to Western civilisation as a whole. Like the Elgin Marbles. And like the Elgin Marbles, we can do whatever we want with the Iliad and we don't have to make concessions to Johnny foreigner and his politically incorrect carping.

Instead, everything about European history or mythology is ethnically Americanized - even in British shows/movies - and the usual suspects have the gall to complain about "racism" if it isn't. Every. ing. time. Everything must have 70% sort-of-British white people, 10-20% black people, some random East Asians etc. ing retarded.

You can't just blame America for political correctness, that was as much a British invention as an American one. Remember, we got rid of the slave trade a while before the yanks and we didn't have Jim Crow laws into the late '60s. And I'm afraid that including non-white people in British broadcasting isn't 'ethnic Americanising', it's just ethnic modernising to reflect our own country in the present day, since England is swiftly approaching the time when it has a population that is 20% non-white so it's increasingly less acceptable that non-white people get so little representation. Every TV show that has less than 1 in 5 actors that are non-white has made a conscious decision not to cast non-white people in favour of whites and serious questions have to be asked about when that is ever necessary.

Do you think lying to them about the involvement of black people in ancient European history is a great way to start their interest in the subject?

I think it's a good way of spurring interest in something they normally wouldn't bother watching, and I also think they'll probably work out that a show with gods and superhuman heroes is not a hugely accurate representation of history.

@Copperknickers: don't get in a twist (sorry, studied in the Uk for 3 years, so am infected :/ ), this has nothing to do with racism; it is just noting that this stupid bbc production reeks of being a ploy, using black actors to try to cover up for having botched a 2-year project, so that some may buy into the trolling and do as you did

Why does it have to be trolling? Why can't it just be a country with a large black population casting the best actors for the part, some of whom are black? I don't know where you studied in the UK, but if it was in a major city you know how many non-white people there are here and how out of your way you'd have to go to avoid hiring them. Britain is not Greece or even Germany where nearly everyone is white or mediterranean, I've sometimes been in London and found myself in a tube carriage or bus with zero white people on it. And then those people should go home the evening and watching a TV show about supernatural wars, and everyone on there is white, because of 'historical accuracy'? Listen to yourself, what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

Oh, and by the way, I forgot to play my trump card in this ridiculous discussion: although they don't appear in the Iliad itself, other parts of the Trojan War Cycle make clear that there literally were thousands of black people fighting in the Trojan War, in Memnon's Ethiopian army! Indeed, the ancient Greeks themselves sometimes changed the race of Memnon to African in artwork, although he was originally supposed to be of Trojan origin:



So there, you have it, the actual ing Ancient Greeks used black people in their depictions of white Homeric heroes. I suppose that was just quotas imposed by the ancient Athenian diversity lobby?