Comes Limitis
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
Eritrean refugees aren't a controversial issue....Originally Posted by athanaric
Refugee Council USA - Eritrean Refugees
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German daily Die Welt.
UN High Commissioner for Refugees Antonio Guterres said more countries in Europe should share the burden.
It is unsustainable in the long run that only two EU countries, Germany and Sweden, take in the majority of refugees
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty
Praeses
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
They are, in Germany. There are even plenty of debates about the topic in the very newspaper you cited.
Comes Limitis
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
Guys, we have a European nation, not the biggest and not the most important for sure, but all in all a pretty relevant European country, named United Kingdom (yes those who are "in" and at the same time "out"), which has decided to suspend the treaty of Schengen, because they don't want European migrants. Yes you have read well: European migrants! Britain doesn't want anymore to get French, Spanish, Italian, Polish, Greek citizens and so on. So not only they closed their national borders to extra-Europeans but they have even decided to close the door with the other European countries.
Now, what are we talking about? Refugees? Migrants? But if today it's in question Schengen all this discussion is meaningless, the Union has gone!
Be happy and if you're not mad, ask to your national politicians to do what they are doing British, Americans, Australians and Canadians: Close the doors and build militarized barriers as in Texas!
Last edited by Diocle; September 01, 2015 at 01:16 PM.
Praeses
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
That is very natural and very beautifull sentiment my worries its whats going on in Europe, with the rise of the Far right, and xenophoby. Where refugee shelters already have been burned by neo nazis in Germany.
Of course there is humanitarian concerns that is not even questionable, but have you seen how Europe is divided in this? have you seen what is happening in Hungary? its a disgrace.
You know History very well , to see the paralels here of social upheavel. That is what im trying to point out.
Attitude is one thing though, i just hope we all are up to the task in how we deal with this process.
Indeed pretty much.Guys, we have a European nation, not the biggest and not the most important for sure, but all in all a pretty relevant European country, named United Kingdom (yes those who are "in" and at the same time "out"), which has decided to suspend the treaty of Schengen, because they don't want European migrants. Yes you have read well: European migrants! Britain doesn't want anymore to get French, Spanish, Italian, Polish, Greek citizens and so on. So not only they closed their national borders to extra-Europeans but they have even decided to close the door with the other European countries.
Now, what are we talking about? Refugees? Migrants? But if today it's in question Schengen all this discussion is meaningless, the Union has gone!
Be happy and if you're not mad, ask to your national politicians to do what they are doing British, Americans, Australians and Canadians: Close the doors and build militarized barriers as in Texas!
Last edited by Knight of Heaven; September 01, 2015 at 01:37 PM.
Protector Domesticus
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
The are best served with Indian, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis , Jamaican, Kenyan and all the formers colonial territories. Its much more exotic.Guys, we have a European nation, not the biggest and not the most important for sure, but all in all a pretty relevant European country, named United Kingdom (yes those who are "in" and at the same time "out"), which has decided to suspend the treaty of Schengen, because they don't want European migrants. Yes you have read well: European migrants! Britain doesn't want anymore to get French, Spanish, Italian, Polish, Greek citizens and so on. So not only they closed their national borders to extra-Europeans but they have even decided to close the door with the other European countries.
Now, what are we talking about? Refugees? Migrants? But if today it's in question Schengen all this discussion is meaningless, the Union has gone!
Be happy and if you're not mad, ask to your national politicians to do what they are doing British, Americans, Australians and Canadians: Close the doors and build militarized barriers as in Texas!
Primicerius
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
You not only defend Angela Merkel for her strategy (or lack of) on the migrant crisis, you even are beginning to read like her.
You really don't know how the EU works do you.quote Gäiten - Because they are Europeans and shall have a Say in what is going on.
The great exodus to Europe from Syria of predominantly young men, is also having a huge effect on Assad's military, as many of these are dodging military service. The bloodiness of the conflict has now made it such, that a choice of leaving Syria to live in Europe more of a preference for thousands of young Syrians who aren't living in rebel held areas.
Syria Army’s Weakness Exacerbated by Draft Dodgers
As war drags on, young men flee country or find other ways to avoid conscription
Finding that many men aren’t answering their conscription notices, the regime has for months been aggressively sweeping up men in neighborhood raids, at road checkpoints and at border crossings—and sending them to the front lines, according to residents and rebels, who have captured many of these draftees on the battlefield.
“I don’t want to be a part of a conflict which is for a single man’s benefit,” said a 29-year-old who has a good job in Damascus but is making plans to flee the country anyway. “This is a conflict that we, the normal people, have nothing to do with.”
Since the start of the anti government uprising in 2011, the military hasn’t allowed any soldiers to be discharged, according to a brigadier general in Homs province.
More recently there has been a crackdown on granting delays in military service. One officer was executed by the regime because of the large number of postponements he allowed in exchange for bribes, the brigadier general said.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights estimates the army has declined to 200,000 soldiers and officers, half the size it was before the uprising. An assessment released last year by the Center for Strategic and International Studies put Syria’s armed forces at 178,000, down from 325,000.
By Raja Abdulrahim
June 5, 2015 6:53 p.m. ET
http://www.wsj.com/articles/syria-ar...ers-1433544837
Last edited by caratacus; September 01, 2015 at 02:14 PM.
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
An interesting chart from 2014, shows who's contributing most, and who could be contributing more (Britain).
You fight like a cow!
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
It seems to me that currently stances in EU nations are from extreme to extreme, with little rational middle ground. On one side we got people who would like to help everyone, even though its just not possible in current approach, on other there are people who would want little to no immigrants, which seems to be majority at moment (or just very loud minority), though accepting-all approach seems to be winning. All this is cause of EU trying to place quotas some time ago.
This has caused probably biggest political S---storm in recent years, with some politicians and groups playing on fears of regular people, leading to such ridicolous claims such as K. Ojuland did and rise of some such parties as EKRE (both are examples from Estonia. i dislike them both). People are scared and politicians are like.. vultures.. typical..
What i am afraid, however, is that situation kinda reminds me of 1930-s a bit- rise of nationalistic politicians to view (nothing bad right now, but it could change quickly), political chaos in europe (back then caused by big depression, now by refugees), with hatred being aimed towards certain group of people (refugees now, while in 30s it was jews) and Russia gearing for war (right now in Ukraine, back in 30-s aim was to take over europe).
This is some serious tightrope politicians have to walk right now, though to be fair situation is still better than in 30s, though it does remind me a bit of that.
As for refugees, i do think we've seen it coming for years that it could happen, there were warnings. Still, i think that while we should help refugees, i do think we should do it on voluentary basis and not force it to any nation, to each by its ability. Though main focus should be to fix the problem at source, not mess around treating symptoms. I mean, ok, it sucks in way that we should have no right to intervene with another nations politics, but it would be better for everyone to fix the problem.
This situation is so messed up... I would want to help as many as possible, but it does suck knowing you cant help all..
Heidinn veor- dark age mod for M2TW now recruiting scripter/coder
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
Why is that? (Honest question)
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
Also, for anyone who isn't familiar, the roots and makeup of those detected crossing into Europe.
Domesticus
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
There is no quickfix for Syria, in my opion. It is not that the majority of the Syrians would not support a correct political transition to a more open state. The problem are the warlords and jihadist. The warlords enjoy their power -> see Sudan The jihadists want to impose their ideology and in the rebel camp they are the most influental party.
So even if a correct deal is made many rebels would not accept it and ruin Syria further.
BTW Why do some Syrians go via Spain?
Last edited by Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus; September 01, 2015 at 04:57 PM.
454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. ShakespeareWe (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull
USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.
You fight like a cow!
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
I never said it would be quick to fix, just that the more we delay, the more will solution be delayed.
I honhestly cant think of painless way to fix it, so for once, i dont envy politicians
Heidinn veor- dark age mod for M2TW now recruiting scripter/coder
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
Britain should take its fair share, nobody is saying otherwise. Nationalist attacks only work on nationalists.
I've posted it about twenty times now, maybe if you bothered to base your views on data rather than trying to warp the data based on your views?
I would love to see your data for this, because this is easily demonstrable nonsense. Even before the current refugee crisis, a plurality of asylum applicants in the EU were Syrians, and this was followed from individuals from other warzones like Iraq:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24636868
That data is two years old.
Now, the UNHRC says, 70% of all those arriving in Greece are from Syria:
http://www.unhcr.org/55c4d1fc2.html*Sigh* The UK is not and has never been in the Schengen Zone.
Honestly this thread is just a parade of people who don't even come close to knowing what they are talking about.
These are H1 2015 + July figures and I have been citing July 2015 figures. This is out of date, and doesn't reflect the upsurge we are experiencing now.Also, for anyone who isn't familiar, the roots and makeup of those detected crossing into Europe.
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
There's a different picture to be told in figures until July and figures in just July, and both are important to getting an overall impression of the situation. Doubtlessly Frontex will keep us updated as this surge is recorded.
And regardless it does show the overwhelming proportion of arrivals are from Syria and other warzones.
Another day, another showing from Hungary which appears determined to look like the worst country in this mess. Apparently a thousand refugees trying to travel to Germany are stranded in Budapest, barred from the station by police as they wave train tickets. After seemingly abandoning all efforts to attempt to register arrivals, Hungary appears to have u-turned and created this situation under claims of "enforcing EU law".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34113471
Last edited by Iskar; September 02, 2015 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Double post merged. Please use the edit function. Thanks ~Iskar
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
They are mostly syrians who first fled to safe zones in Turkey and Lebanon. They were safe enough there. Their decision to choose to head off towards europe from these safezones automatically disqualifies them from being refugees. And even legally, they wouldnt have been considered refugees if it hadnt been for Germany's nixing of the dublin agreement.
Praeses
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
Neither of your claims is true. Legally speaking if refugees pass through a safe country like Turkey then they can be sent back to that safe country. But their refugee status doesn't just disappear and they can only be sent back if it is reasonably certain that their refugee status will be fairly assessed and asylum granted if warranted.
Under Dublin II refugees can be sent back to their point of entry into the EU, but again they don't lose their refugee status. They still have to be assessed and granted asylum somewhere.
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
We've already settled this with sources. You can keep repeating but you're not kidding anybody but the racists.
Which they should be. And germany and the other EU countries should also help turkey, lebanon and jordan with ensuring their upkeep.
Not everybody who is sceptical of merkel's refugee policy is a racist. What are you going to do with the next batch of several hundred thousand refugees from syria, and the people fleeing the economic mess in africa? Not to mention the countless thousands who will be fleeing climate change? The syrian war is just the beginning. In another decade, you will yourself have to house so many refugees that you wont find enough time to troll TWC with merkel's propaganda. (Ofc, merkel will be a distant memory by then, but some other clown will emerge).
Last edited by Iskar; September 02, 2015 at 03:21 AM. Reason: Double post merged. Please use the edit and/or multiquote function. Thanks ~Iskar
Re: The European Refugee Crisis
You're not skeptical, you're arguing that Europe has no obligation, moral or legal, to shelter refugees, and should deport them to Lebanon or Turkey or Jordan. Am I unfair in this description of your position?
You then talk about Africa but again we've dealt with this so often already it's just boring now. I mean... what's your deal? Your one thread is about a German professor not accepting Indian students (which turned out to be tabloid nonsense) so what's the deal? Hindu nationalism?
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