Japanese emperor expresses remorse over WW2 for the first time

[Ludicus]

Cyclops

Had Japan been invaded by the Soviets and subject to divided rule I think her family would have suffered more

Poor East Germans...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were essentially toxic firebombings that killed less people than some raids on Tokyo

Propaganda. Thats not the point. Remember your relative, the Hiroshima Maidens...and the long term effects of the atomic radiations.Nothing justifies the atomic incineration of a people.

[Stavroforos]

Nothing justifies their regular incineration either, but somehow that's treated as something a-okay by you.

[Vanoi]

Cyclops

Poor East Germans...

Or it could have ended up like Korea. Poor North Koreans am i right? Either way all options regarding the surrender of Japan involved killing her people one way or another.

[Ludicus]

Germans certainly deserved what they got, and what they would have gotten had the atom bombs been dropped.

The German people? why? your efforts to treat the German people and Hitler/Nazis as one is a shameful attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

Nothing justifies their regular incineration either.

Please decide. Nothing justifies "regular incineration" - or the Germans deserved what they got? (and much more - the atomic obliteration of the Germans cities)
------
Obviously, nothing justifies the horror of the bombing of Dresden,a calculated cruelty -("why? "because it was there" - said Harris)

Last January, the "traitor" Archbishop of Canterbury spoke in a Dresden church to mark the anniversary of the World War II bombing of the German city. He declared: "Whatever the arguments, events here 70 years ago left a deep wound and diminished all our humanity"
And he is right.
I don't buy the Total war argument - that the enemy includes every member of the "enemy society", regardless of age, gender, occupation.I don't buy the argument that says "We were at war, everything is allowed, so the choice of the lesser evil- to bomb, incinerate and nuke the German and Japanese civilians than to sacrifice the lives of our soldiers is right"

---

Originally Posted by Ludicus
Cyclops

Poor East Germans...

.. Either way all options regarding the surrender of Japan involved killing her people one way or another.

I said ironically, "poor East Germans" because they didn't get lucky, they didn't get the chance to be nuked and avoid the Soviet intervention. Really unfair.

[Stavroforos]

From a military point of view, strategic bombing in its stated objective (to break the will of the people, to bring about surrender) failed miserably, so there was no real military purpose in bombing these cities, which is why I won't defend strategic bombing. From a moral point of view, the German people were largely complicit in the crimes of Germany, so I won't really shed many tears for them, regardless of whether it was justified or not.

When I said nothing justifies, I was trying to get into your fault train of thought.

[Cyclops]

Cyclops
Poor East Germans...

Villages of women committed suicide in East Prussia as they were pack raped by a succession of advancing Soviet units. The Germans of eastern Europe were literally bulldozed out of eastern Europe by the Soviet advance. Germany was devastated by conventional bombing and vicious fighting. Had Berlin been nuked we would have lost a beautiful city of culture and historical importance. WE LOST IT ANYWAY. Berlin was almost levelled by the final Soviet assault. Most of what you see is a post war reconstruction.

Propaganda. Thats not the point. ....

Its not propaganda, its a calculated military opinion. That is the point: the US was preparing to smash their way into Japan and fight across every kilometre of it. The Soviets were preparing an invasion of Hokkaido. We know what happened in Korea and Germnay, and what was already happening in Japan.

...Remember your relative, the Hiroshima Maidens...and the long term effects of the atomic radiations.Nothing justifies the atomic incineration of a people.

What about my posts suggests to you I ma happy about nukes and that I haven't thought about the issue thoroughly? You flip out niceties like "no nukes never never" but you consideration of the alternatives is trite and unimpressive.

[RubiconDecision]

Because they haven't changed. The Japanese people's sadism and pride was beaten into submission in 1945 but they have never truly apologised for their crimes because they'd do them again if they were back in the position of power. They pretend to be the most peaceful race on Earth when in fact it's the polar opposite; the savagery they inflicted on civilians and POWs in the 30s and 40s is unmatched in human history and they don't give a damn what they did.

Want to feel sick? Google Unit 731; it makes the Nazis look like kittens

After nearly a year away due to this kind of bigoted catch-all kind of reply, the kind that lumps all Japanese together, regardless of the fact that Japanese are individuals, not only in Nippon, but worldwide as immigrants who may have been citizens of their new countries for over five generations, STILL is being repeated as though the Japanese are universally monstrous caricatures of humanity.

Really? If you stated that all English or Americans or Homosexuals or Jews or whatever have a universal mindset, then isn't that the very definition of bigoted discourse?

How about a history lesson?

Re the Comfort Women:
The Comfort Woman were a brutal Imperial Japanese Army phenomena of WW2. Practically everyone agrees it was monstrous sexual depraved slavery. Did you know that upon those cities and camps being liberated, the very same Pacific Theatre soldiers (American, British, and Australian) then not only didn't FREE the enslaved Comfort women, not only did they continue to use them as prostitutes, not only were many of them teenagers, BUT the American Occupying Forces then turned a blind eye to it happening, enabled the servicemen by working in political conjunction with the Occupied Japanese government, BUT ALSO facilitated illegal prostitution by providing contraceptives, medical care to Comfort Women, and medicines to deal with ENORMOUS STD rates that were affecting the populace and servicemen.

But wait, no apology is needed by conquerors, right?

Re Unit 731

Did you know that Germ Warfare was considered so essential military technology that the research and scientists both from Nazi Germany (see Operation Paperclip) as well as the horrendous Unit 731 scientists were utilized, interrogated, and excused by the American government? That that research was then applied into the Korean War? No? Not surprised.

Are you expecting an apology from the US for doing that too?

What about wholesale firebombing cities into the Stone Age in Japan? What about the two atomic bombs that a whole litany of military leaders said was utterly unnecessary including LeMay and Eisenhower and Nimitz etc?

Sorry, other citizens from other nations involved in WW2 don't get a pass to bellyache about the monstrous Japanese (into perpetuity into the 21st Century regardless that all Japanese don't live there, or that are fervent peace activists, or regardless of previous apologies, etc). Maybe the Biblical scripture of Matthew 7:3 is illustrative and instructive here:
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Nanking: a monstrous event in WW2 committed by Imperial Japanese Army soldiers in that city. It's not a responsibility for all Japanese throughout time into perpetuity regardless of their present nation, complete lack of involvement, or political beliefs. If so, then every person whose ancestors ever had the slightest bit of connection with slavery (European, American, Asian, African, etc for all had ancestors who were tentatively connected to slavery as even other Africans sold others into slavery) should abjectly crawl on their bellies to recite an apology whenever some clown demands it.

Germ Warfare: what postmodern nation hasn't experimented with germ warfare?

Rape as a weapon of war: Are you also expecting every nation in the history of war to apologize like the Russian occupiers of Germany in WW2? Are all Russians monstrous and rapists because those soldiers committed mass rape?

Attack on Pearl Harbor: So if the Japanese were sneaky, and you're ignoring the facts of the massive embargo by the English and Americans, not to mention Operation Flying Tiger in which American pilots were directly involved before the declaration of war, then the Japanese are more evil and continue to be more evil than any other nation on Earth. Err what?

So firebombs and atomic bombs that kill a million and displace a million civilians are ok and justifiable then other war time acts are not and must be apologized for today? Don't get me started on the ridiculous notion that the Japanese would rise up en masse to fight a guerrilla partisan war without atomic weapons because the reality is they were utterly beaten by the time the bombs were dropped. They had no navy, no air force, no supplies, and spent it all on Okinawa. Only people reading 40 year old research think it "saved a million lives". The reality is there was one tiny attempt to continue the war and almost no resistance. Nothing like Operation Werewolf in Germany happened for example.

If you win, you need only demand apologies, not ever apologize, in spite of jailing the zaibatsu responsible for the horrors of WW2, not punishing the IJA responsible, not punishing barely whatsoever, and then re-releasing the zaibatsu because the Americans were more worried about the Japanese communists than the war criminal zaibatsu.

Tell me, for those waiting with baited breath for an apology, do you buy Japanese made products? Hmmm? Do you work for a corporation that's owned by the Japanese, either directly or indirectly? Did you know that the very same zaibatsu families of WW2 still own most of them? How's that for cognitive dissonance? So you on one hand loathe all Japanese and give them the same qualities of being monstrous, and then enable them by working for or buying their products???

Despite being an ardent American patriot, who just so happens to be partially of Japanese ancestry, this post will no doubt be spin-doctored into making the fallacious claim that I'm an Imperial Japanese Army proponent, and feel that the nation of present day Japan shouldn't apologize. Poppycock! Balderdash!

What hypocrisy to complain about the evil Japanese, blaming this present generation, who often protest the illegal Japanese Civil Defense Forces banned by their own constitution. The very people complaining about the monstrous Japanese likely also feel the Japanese should expend more money on military spending due to the Chinese and the North Koreans. It's absurdity beyond all comprehension.

Tell me, after seeing the very same people make annual posts on Nanking, the Emperor, Pearl Harbor, Unit 731, et all, have you called your congressperson, intentionally supported politicians hoping to change the diplomatic relationship with the Japanese government? No? So isn't that rather a light weight post by complaining in an anonymous internet post about the monstrous Japanese? It's an impotent action, without intellectual merit, having no basis in reality, and utterly futile.

[Vanoi]

So firebombs and atomic bombs that kill a million and displace a million civilians are ok and justifiable then other war time acts are not and must be apologized for today? Don't get me started on the ridiculous notion that the Japanese would rise up en masse to fight a guerrilla partisan war without atomic weapons because the reality is they were utterly beaten by the time the bombs were dropped. They had no navy, no air force, no supplies, and spent it all on Okinawa. Only people reading 40 year old research think it "saved a million lives". The reality is there was one tiny attempt to continue the war and almost no resistance. Nothing like Operation Werewolf in Germany happened for example.

This is all nonsense really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

The Japanese defense relied heavily on kamikaze planes. In addition to fighters and bombers, they reassigned almost all of their trainers for the mission. Their army and navy had more than 10,000 aircraft ready for use in July (and would have had somewhat more by October) and were planning to use almost all that could reach the invasion fleets. Ugaki also oversaw the building of hundreds of small suicide boats to attack any Allied ships that came near the shores of Kyūshū.

They had thousands of kamikazes ready for the invasion and suicide boats.

Japan also had about 100 Kōryū-class midget submarines, 300 smaller Kairyū-class midget submarines, 120 Kaiten manned torpedoes,^[41] and 2,412 Shin'yō suicide boats.^[42]

Navy almost gone but not quite.

In March 1945, there was only one combat division in Kyūshū. Over the next four months, the Imperial Japanese Army transferred forces from Manchuria, Korea and northern Japan, while raising other forces in place. By August, they had 14 divisions and various smaller formations, including three tank brigades, for a total of 900,000 men.^[44] Although the Japanese were able to raise large numbers of new soldiers, equipping them was more difficult. By August, the Japanese Army had the equivalent of 65 divisions in the homeland but only enough equipment for 40 and only enough ammunition for 30.^[45]
The Japanese did not formally decide to stake everything on the outcome of the Battle of Kyūshū, but they concentrated their assets to such a degree that there would be little left in reserve. By one estimate, the forces in Kyūshū had 40% of all the ammunition in the Home Islands.^[46]
In addition, the Japanese had organized the Patriotic Citizens Fighting Corps, which included all healthy men aged 15 to 60 and women 17 to 40 for a total of 28 million people, for combat support and, later, combat jobs. Weapons, training and uniforms were generally lacking: some men were armed with nothing better than muzzle-loading muskets, longbows or bamboo spears; nevertheless, they were expected to make do with what they had.^[47][48] One mobilized high school girl, Yukiko Kasai, found herself issued an awl and told, "Even killing one American soldier will do. ... You must aim for the abdomen."^[49]

^{They had plenty of soldiers, but not much ammunition. That didn't stop them on iwo jima however. Germany organized its own citizens into the Volkstrum who did fight the Soviets. The idea that they weren't be any Japanese civilians conscripted to fight is nonsense.}

[RubiconDecision]

Posts upset about Japanese atrocities that turn a blind eye to American ones while even admitting such firebombing and atomic bombing was declared illegal soon after...are disingenuous.

The bulk of existing essential core military leadership at the time of WW2 have made statements that no single atomic bomb was necessary. The irrational fear of no surrendering by the Japanese citizen is not intellectually defensible. We're not talking about hardened battle tested fanatical healthy IJA SOLDIERS. Some granny from Japan didn't start systematically blowing up infrastructure, carry out suicide kamikaze missions post-war, etc. It didn't happen. No one fights without clean potable water and food rations. What nonsense.

Lemay was a homicidal maniac who wanted to burn them all. When I see bigoted posts from otherwise intelligent thoughtful posters claiming sexual deviancy of Japanese and calling them barbarians without specificity, then by default then the post is character assassination about me. I won't tolerate such blanket bigoted posts.

[Vanoi]

Posts upset about Japanese atrocities that turn a blind eye to American ones while even admitting such firebombing and atomic bombing was declared illegal soon after...are disingenuous.

Declared illegal by a Japanese court. You complain about American bombings but kindly leave out Japanese bombings in China
killed over 250,000 Chinese civilians. You still have no realized bombing in WW2 in almost every form was legal.

The bulk of existing essential core military leadership at the time of WW2 have made statements that no single atomic bomb was necessary.

Lemay wanted to firebomb Japan into surrendering instead. Nimitiz wanted to blockade and starve Japan into surrender. Eisenhower i don't care about at all since he was the commander in the European threatre, not Pacific.

They opposed it because they had their own ideas how to win.

The irrational fear of no surrendering by the Japanese citizen is not intellectually defensible. We're not talking about hardened battle tested fanatical healthy IJA SOLDIERS. Some granny from Japan didn't start systematically blowing up infrastructure, carry out suicide kamikaze missions post-war, etc. It didn't happen. No one fights without clean potable water and food rations. What nonsense.

Are you going to ignore that Germany itself conscripted civilians to fight against the Soviets?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturm

I mean holy , Japanese troops themselves form airmen to sliders were known to conduct suicide attacks and i am sure the Japanese civilian was more than capable of doing the same.

If Germany could conscript civilians to fight, so could the Japanese who were just as fanatical.

Lemay was a homicidal maniac who wanted to burn them all. When I see bigoted posts from otherwise intelligent thoughtful posters claiming sexual deviancy of Japanese and calling them barbarians without specificity, then by default then the post is character assassination about me. I won't tolerate such blanket bigoted posts.

The only reason you are mentioning Allied war crimes is in an attempt to deflect criticism off form Japanese war crimes. Not out fault if someone calls you out on it.

[RubiconDecision]

I am NOT attempting to deflect a single war crime by an IJA WW2 SOLDIER. Expecting an apology is worthless. Does anyone expect for the promise of 40 Acres and a Mule TO EVER happen? Should every American apologize for slavery?

Despite the remarkable fearlessness of the IJA initially, that ends with the Battle of Okinawa. Some Okinawan civilians refused to surrender. This just didn't happen in Imperial Japan as they were utterly broken by firebombing and blockades.

Any time bigoted posts make out that the Japanese even in 2015 are remotely like militant WW2 Japanese, make them superhuman boogeymen, all perverted, all barbarians, etc then that is precisely nonsense. Are postmodern Germans like depraved SS Nazis running extermination camps? It's simplistic propaganda straight out of the US Office of Information nonsense circa 1945 but minus personal moral courage. I don't know any two Japanese or Japanese-Americans who are that similar. They're diverse as anyone else.

How often has the Queen of England apologized for anything that happened in the "colonies" worldwide?

[tgoodenow]

Posts upset about Japanese atrocities that turn a blind eye to American ones while even admitting such firebombing and atomic bombing was declared illegal soon after...are disingenuous.

The bulk of existing essential core military leadership at the time of WW2 have made statements that no single atomic bomb was necessary. The irrational fear of no surrendering by the Japanese citizen is not intellectually defensible. We're not talking about hardened battle tested fanatical healthy IJA SOLDIERS. Some granny from Japan didn't start systematically blowing up infrastructure, carry out suicide kamikaze missions post-war, etc. It didn't happen. No one fights without clean potable water and food rations. What nonsense.

Lemay was a homicidal maniac who wanted to burn them all. When I see bigoted posts from otherwise intelligent thoughtful posters claiming sexual deviancy of Japanese and calling them barbarians without specificity, then by default then the post is character assassination about me. I won't tolerate such blanket bigoted posts.

Using the actions of the victors as examples does not cancel out the actions of the vanquished. Here are some facts about the Japanese imperial army:
The Japanese enslaved women during the war.
The Japanese slaughtered the Chinese civilians.
The Japanese experimented on Chinese civilians to learn about germ warfare.
The Japanese tried, unsuccessfully, to use biological warfare against the Americans.

The Japanese government needs to acknowledge these situations as fact to get somewhat of a healing process in the same manner that the American government apologized for slavery and the Europeans apologize for Imperialism. Denying the existence of these crimes denies the existence of the victims.

The Japanese practiced a policy of no surrender and millions of American and Japanese lives would have been lost with an invasion of the Japan mainland. My great uncles fought at both Iwo Jima and Saipan. They gave me first hand accounts of the no surrender policy.
For instance, a Japanese soldier was walking towards the line under the guise of surrender. As he approached the line he made a jerking action so my Uncle shot the man and he exploded. The man was laden with explosives. Acts of perfidy are cowardice. If the Japanese had adopted the policy of surrender when facing overwhelming odds they may have not been carpet bombed of atomic bombed. Instead, they promised to fight to the end and called millions of civilians into conscription. I see no reason why America had to shed any more blood for a war that Japan started. If Japan had the atomic bomb they would have used it as many times as they could.

[Inkie]

@Rubicon I'm not sure if you realize how lamentable the general state of knowledge about WW2 is here in Japan. It's even worse than Europeans about colonialism ('we built schools and roads though!'). People generally seem aware that Japan did bad things but in a totally vague sense, and usually the controversies brought up only refer to a narrow slice of the war crimes, like the Comfort Women (and usually, depressingly, to discuss the extent to which they were actually victims considering how powerful the right-wing historical revisionist lobby is here). People here don't know anything about the Three Alls policy in China, about the Hell Ships, the Bataan Death March, the Manila Massacre, the Death Railway and the despicable treatment of POW's, the Alexandra Hospital Massacre and the subsequent rounding up and summary execution of thousands of Singaporean Chinese, etc. etc.

People will still come up and say things like "but Japanese didn't torture people like Westerners did", or "Chinese people were killed because the Japanese soldiers were shot at from all directions and didn't know who was an enemy and who wasn't". Generally, popular media here about the war focuses almost exclusively about the drama of the surrender, the bombings and the end of the war. It both displays and feeds the popular Japanese notion that they were victims of WW2 more than they were creators of victims, which is wrong. Even the pacifists here usually seem more concerned about the danger fighting abroad would represent for Japan and the wrongs of war in general rather than feeling genuinely guilty of what Japan did during its militarized days. Nobody wants to know.

[RubiconDecision]

I have ancestry from Japan, Okinawa, and America. Okinawa suffered hugely by Japanese occupation for Hundreds of years. They were conscripted even as children for military use. You're preaching to the choir. Then after Japanese occupation, the Allied forces of the Pacific Theatre used Okinawa for massive rapes that were never prosecuted. Theft, beatings, and the murder of Okinawan civilians occurred. Look up the continuing cycle of sexual violence by American soldiers on Okinawa.

Is any of that....common knowledge?

What in the world are people expecting in 2015? Some sort of soul searching by this present generation?

I remember how long Japanese-Americans suffered from the sting of losing all of their worldly possessions as they were FORCED into interment camps. Houses and businesses and bank accounts STOLEN while so interned. Then goofy liberals thought an apology and minor reparations would somehow symbolically make THAT go away. What lunacy! The audacity and feeble-mindedness of such a hollow act in America.

Note how debaters in this very topic are CONDONING Japanese-American Internment because Three were found guilty of aiding and abetting the enemy. Guilt by association while the most distinguished heroism of WW2 happened by the 442nd Regimental Combat Team. I guess their patriotism is worth manure versus Vanoi's arguments.

[Chukada1]

@Rubicon I'm not sure if you realize how lamentable the general state of knowledge about WW2 is here in Japan. It's even worse than Europeans about colonialism ('we built schools and roads though!'). People generally seem aware that Japan did bad things but in a totally vague sense, and usually the controversies brought up only refer to a narrow slice of the war crimes, like the Comfort Women (and usually, depressingly, to discuss the extent to which they were actually victims considering how powerful the right-wing historical revisionist lobby is here). People here don't know anything about the Three Alls policy in China, about the Hell Ships, the Bataan Death March, the Manila Massacre, the Death Railway and the despicable treatment of POW's, the Alexandra Hospital Massacre and the subsequent rounding up and summary execution of thousands of Singaporean Chinese, etc. etc.

People will still come up and say things like "but Japanese didn't torture people like Westerners did", or "Chinese people were killed because the Japanese soldiers were shot at from all directions and didn't know who was an enemy and who wasn't". Generally, popular media here about the war focuses almost exclusively about the drama of the surrender, the bombings and the end of the war. It both displays and feeds the popular Japanese notion that they were victims of WW2 more than they were creators of victims, which is wrong. Even the pacifists here usually seem more concerned about the danger fighting abroad would represent for Japan and the wrongs of war in general rather than feeling genuinely guilty of what Japan did during its militarized days. Nobody wants to know.

Don't forget the strategy of intentionally targeting Chinese civilians not in Japanese controlled territory with actual bombs containing actual plagues fleas carrying bubonic plague, and other diseases. The Japanese military developed these weapons by testing them out on Chinese civilians within Japanese controlled Manchuria, test subjects were easy to find as they would either just arrest them for no reason and bring them to the death laboratories and experiment on them alive, until they died, or they would go to those villages, pretend to be there to contain an illness, then give out candy laced with anthrax to children, and poison the water. They would then come back some time later and pick up the victims for live testing. Unit 731 goes beyond the log processing facility, those biological weapons were used against Chinese civilians throughout the war.

Let's not also forget that the Japanese used poison gas against Chinese cities. Using poison gas is a war crime since the first world war, but Japan didn't sign the agreement, but using it against a city... We can say that fascist Italy used poison gas against Ethiopians, if it helps Rubicon feel better, but it doesn't help his case to say "But fascist Italy did it too!"

At the end of the Second World War, Japan was obligated to return all of the POWs to their respective countries:

According to the findings of the Tokyo Tribunal, the death rate of Western prisoners was 27.1%, seven times that of POWs under the Germans and Italians.^[45] The death rate of Chinese was much higher. Thus, while 37,583 prisoners from the United Kingdom, Commonwealth, and Dominions, 28,500 from the Netherlands, and 14,473 from the United States were released after the surrender of Japan, the number for the Chinese was only 56.

From a war that lasted eight years and primarily features Japanese forces on the offensive taking towns and cities from the Nationalist Government. Hmm


How is it that they managed to capture and return 28,500 Dutch troops, but only 56 Chinese troops. These numbers tell a sad tale indeed.

@ Rubicon

You always bring in America into this conversation to deflect all the war crime blame from going to Japan. Why?

War with America happened in 1941. Japan was raping and pillaging its way across China since 1931. Japan had a good ten years of atrocity style brutality before the Americans even got involved. Chinese people did no harm to Japanese people, why did they deserve this.

Why were South Korean women also forced into becoming comfort women for the IJA. Was it not enough that Japan was trying to destroy Korean culture and colonize Korea, did they have to force the women there to become prostitutes too? American racism is irrelevant to this discussion. Most of Japan's atrocities were committed against Asians.

[RubiconDecision]

...and that very research then utilized, condoned, and expanded upon by the U S goverment for germ and chemical warfare for the Korean War and into present day. That's the ugly TRUTH.http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...2#post14681642

Is there ANY intellectual who doesn't utterly CONDEMN Unit 731?

People feel free to demonize all of Japanese ancestry due to the actions of some who have long since died. It's ridiculous reading the same bigotry 70 years later. Discuss the history, injustice, and morale outrage....then leave the bigoted posts out.

[Chukada1]

...and that very research then utilized, condoned, and expanded upon by the U S goverment for germ and chemical warfare for the Korean War and into present day. That's the ugly TRUTH.http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...2#post14681642

Is there ANY intellectual who doesn't utterly CONDEMN Unit 731?

People feel free to demonize all of Japanese ancestry due to the actions of some who have long since died. It's ridiculous reading the same bigotry 70 years later. Discuss the history, injustice, and morale outrage....then leave the bigoted posts out.

More deflection.

Those were facts by the way. Facts are not "bigoted" if they make you feel bad. I am not "demonizing" all of Japan's ancestry because those facts are now shared.

[RubiconDecision]

Go back and READ the posts. In fact, Chukada1, read your own posts in every Japanese WW2 discussion where you make blanket statement about the Japanese.

No one is arguing about the veracity of IJA barbarous war crimes. All Japanese don't have to apologize for the actions of some. Demonizing is a distraction and transforms posts into propaganda. It's historical truth mixed up with bigoted posts and lies blaming all forever for the actions for some, whilst excusing similar actions by the other military and politicians involved.

That's precisely the sordid corrupt mechanism for Japanese-American Internment Camps.

TW Center logic on the Japanese perpetual cycle.
1. Discuss the actions of some in the Imperial Japanese Army
2. Provide photographic evidence and URLs
3. Demonize the Japanese with blanket statements about cruelty, barbarity, perversity
4. Be an apologist for what American atrocities occurred due to the savagery of the Japanese
5. Excuse the Japanese-American Internment
6. Blame present day Japanese without qualifiers for WW2 actions
7. Belittle present day Japanese for perversion and barbarity.....today.

Goebbels would be proud to see such continuity of propaganda theory.

[Chukada1]

Go back and READ the posts. In fact, Chukada1, read your own posts in every Japanese WW2 discussion where you make blanket statement about the Japanese.

No one is arguing about the veracity of IJA barbarous war crimes. All Japanese don't have to apologize for the actions of some. Demonizing is a distraction and transforms posts into propaganda. It's historical truth mixed up with bigoted posts and lies blaming all forever for the actions for some, whilst excusing similar actions by the other military and politicians involved.

That's precisely the sordid corrupt mechanism for Japanese-American Internment Camps.

@ Rubicon

All of your arguments go like this. "Yes everybody knows Japan did these things and we all know its bad, but America *insert crime here*."

Few pages ago I spoke out against Japanese interment as a crime against humanity.

You are more predictable. Are you learning a lot from your deflection major? The facts I stated are the facts. Deal with them being brought up again and again, you will have to until Japanese society has the good taste to apologize for it, and actually feel some sort of guilt or stomach ache as a result of what they did 70 years ago.

[RubiconDecision]

@ Rubicon

All of your arguments go like this. "Yes everybody knows Japan did these things and we all know its bad, but America *insert crime here*."

Few pages ago I spoke out against Japanese interment as a crime against humanity.

You are more predictable. Are you learning a lot from your deflection major? The facts I stated are the facts. Deal with them being brought up again and again, you will have to until Japanese society has the good taste to apologize for it, and actually feel some sort of guilt or stomach ache as a result of what they did 70 years ago.

Does anyone apologize for the actions of their parents? Is anyone guilty due to their ethnicity for crimes committed seventy years ago? Does it taint Japanese DNA? Does the barbarous genocidal actions of the IJA mean that bigoted posts are acceptable at the TW Center?

How is that justification any different than Goebbels's propaganda theory justifying antisemitism? This form of argument is like blaming the democide of the Chinese purges onto Chinese-Americans and demonizing in 2015 Chinese citizens from Taiwan.