Discussion and Debate Community Thread

[NorseThing]

It's not a national memorial. Karl Marx was the intellectual father of totalitarianism and it is a memorial by the communist party.

I think it is owned by the government or some such thing. It is on the national register. I suspect most would consider the entire cemetery as a bit of a national memorial. You are correct though. From wiki:

The Tomb of Karl Marx stands in the Eastern cemetery of Highgate Cemetery, north London, England. It commemorates the burial sites of Marx, of his wife, Jenny von Westphalen, and other members of his family. Originally buried in a different part of the Eastern cemetery, the bodies were disinterred and reburied at their present location in 1954. The tomb was designed by Laurence Bradshaw and was unveiled in 1956, in a ceremony led by Harry Pollitt, the General Secretary of the Communist Party of Great Britain, which funded the memorial. The tomb consists of a large bust of Marx in bronze set on a marble pedestal. The pedestal is inscribed with quotes from Marx's works including, on the front, the final words of The Communist Manifesto, "Workers of all lands unite". Since its construction, the tomb has become a place of pilgrimage for followers of Marxist theory. It has also been a target for Marx's opponents, suffering vandalism, and two bomb attacks in the 1970s. It is a Grade I listed structure, the highest listing reserved for buildings and structures of "exceptional interest".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Karl_Marx

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I wouldn't have vandalized it nor advocated for anyone else to do it.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

A very good, spot on comment about the Security Conferrence in Munich. Merkel had made on her farewell days one of the best speeches of her career with the breaking news of the coming tarifs on european cars by Mr. Danger for National security - President. The Reporter described exactly which negative impression Pence's speech had made.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/o...=Roger%20Cohen

[Diamat]

Why are Hegel memorials always smaller than Marx memorials? I was disappointed by the tiny little bust of Hegel in Berlin.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Who the heck is Mr. Danger? Wasn't that George Bush?

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Trump.

Foreign Steel import -> danger for national security -> tarifs

trade deficit with China -> danger for national security -> tarifs

No funding for the "Südwall" at mexican border -> danger for national security -> national emergency case

European Cars -> report by trade ministry: danger for national security-> coming tarifs on cars

Danger for national security is inflationary these days.

[swabian]

@swabian: Do you have any evidence that Putin deployed new weapons against Germany? The nuclear arms race is between US-Russia.

No. Russia is a growing threat for the entirety of Europe, though. They also recently upgraded their intermediately ranged capabilities by introducing new hypersonic and very expensive carrier systems that could reach Berlin in 10 minutes or so. I'm quite sure they are targeting us, but i don't have the exact missile trajectories at hand to prove it, i'm afraid.

BTW i kind of didn't realize at the time i wrote the last answer to you that i confused China with Russia. I was kind of tired and in a hurry.

China is of course a completely different beast... omg. They will overtake the US GDP in the coming years and they don't give a rats ass about liberalism and human rights. That's actually even more worrysome and maybe even a conjoined problematic together with Russia. I'm not sure if confrontative courses of potential allies against China are even sensible, but i'm even less sure if we have much of a choice at all, because China might not leave us a choice.

well, thats the point, isnt it. western media can be bought and people in media can live out their bias fact free if not held to account, but the media is there. in russia, media is controlled. if there are only three stages, completely free media (no present examples imo), somewhat controled media, and completely controled media, (ideal types oc) then russia is the latter.

putin has the image of the strong, no-nonsene leader, who will sacrifice a guy for a bit of anti-corruption theater, if called for. he peddles to bigotry, to all forms of them-vs-us. he tells simple truths, he has a clear message and presents definitive enemies. that apeals. and he knows a bit of truth makes the lie more believable. the US is a threat to international stability. so is russia, but its easier to omit than lie, and best to not lie at all, just point a finger and whatabout the issue. "What about america" does take focus away from russia, and thats indeed the main argument. we need russia, because america is bad.

so, i tend to be unsurprised, which partly saves me from being dissapointed

They are both douches, but Putin is clearely the far more dangerous (and actually more powerful) anus. I mean, let's just keep this real for once: Who is more dangerous? The Orange One who has a mild impulsivity problem on twitter (there are lots of cocaine snorting celebrities and politicians who are clearely worse) or the cold and calculating KGB guy who annexed the Krim, tries to get a hold of Ukraine like it's 1938, supresses free journalism and opposition with an iron fist and actually murders oppositionals in sometimes exquisitely cruel ways.

I even believe it's possible that Trump actually loves his wife and kids in a screwed way, whereas Putin is a guy who thinks that women are worthless and basically only there to get ed.

[Mayer]

China is of course a completely different beast... omg. They will overtake the US GDP in the coming years and they don't give a rats ass about liberalism and human rights. That's actually even more worrysome and maybe even a conjoined problematic together with Russia. I'm not sure if confrontative courses of potential allies against China are even sensible, but i'm even less sure if we have much of a choice at all, because China might not leave us a choice.

It might be worrysome to your sensibilities, but for chinese it is the normal way of life. The authoritarian state has some benefits, it doesn't have to put up with a lot of nonsense. Building an airport for 10 years or environmentalists blocking a highway project like in Germany are all but unthinkable in China. They just make a plan, gather the men and resources, and build it. A airport, a highway, and an entire city within a couple of months.
Decadence and nihilism which are the products of rampant liberalism, also don't exit. No data privacy means they have an edge in the development of artificial intelligence.

[swabian]

It might be worrysome to your sensibilities,

My sensibilities are not a concern of yours.

but for chinese it is the normal way of life. The authoritarian state has some benefits, it doesn't have to put up with a lot of nonsense.

It is a "normal" way of life for them, because they want get where we are. Once they have arrived there, they plan to be "just like us", or something.

Building an airport for 10 years or environmentalists blocking a highway project like in Germany are all but unthinkable in China. They just make a plan, gather the men and resources, and build it. A airport, a highway, and an entire city within a couple of months.

I'm aware of what they can do. Germany can't cope with that. What are you suggesting, man?

No data privacy means they have an edge in the development of artificial intelligence.

You're admiring totalitarianism. Aren't you valuing your privacy and private property a little? Would you want me to know about your sensibilities?
And no, they don't have the edge yet.

[Mayer]

I am suggesting that a state should have the ability to act, and not be constrained by petty tree-huggers. I am a blank slate, i don't care much for my privacy, i care about illegal aliens roaming free in Germany.

[Aexodus]

Do you want to be a private citizen or a cog in a socialist machine Mayer.

[Mayer]

We don't have freedom right now, the EU is already a buraucratic socialist nightmare, and the germans have to pay the highest taxes. The only difference with true Socialism is that its leaders would pretend to care about the people instead of treating them like dirt (Brussels is an elite club calling european people populist rabble)

[Prodromos]

I had no idea Northern Ireland was so based. The rest of Britain need to get on their level.

Attend church at least once a month

Northern Ireland: 45%
Scotland: 18%
England: 14%
Wales: 12%

Source

[Mayer]

I am not surprised, Protestantism is central to a seperate North-Irish identity whereas everywhere else christianity is past its peak.

[Aexodus]

Actually it’s just very Christian in general, not exclusively Protestant or something

[sumskilz]

I always imagined that in Northern Ireland, even the atheists are either Catholic or Protestant.

[Prodromos]

Dude is holding back tears.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

Really makes you think.

[Aexodus]

I always imagined that in Northern Ireland, even the atheists are either Catholic or Protestant.

Yes. Protestant is as much a marker for ethnicity equally as much as a belief system. I for example am a Protestant non-believer.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Hard day for german islamophobes. Former minister of interior, known as a hardliner, and now president of Bundestag Wolfgang Schäuble declares:

"Muslims and Islam are part of Germany".

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Islam belongs to Germany affirms Bundestag President Wolfgang Schäuble - and speaks of a "basically undeniable fact". However, integration requires openness from both sides.

Bundestag President Wolfgang Schäuble (CDU) has affirmed that Islam belongs to Germany for him. "Muslims and with them Islam are part of Germany," said Schäuble on Thursday evening in Berlin. "They are part of our society." Schäuble reminded that he had already said so when he as Minister of the Interior in 2006 launched the German Islam Conference. "By the way, contrary to some assumptions, I have nothing to take back from it." It is an "essentially undeniable fact".

The current interior minister, Horst Seehofer (CSU) said last year: "Islam does not belong to Germany. Germany is shaped by Christianity." He broke off a debate about the role of Islam.

Schäuble, who spoke on the subject of political Islam to the presentation of an anthology of his party colleague Carsten Linnemann stressed: "Integration at least calls us all, it is a two-way street." She needed the fundamental openness and commitment of the majority society, but also the willingness of newcomers, for example, to learn the language and to recognize the liberal basic order. "Muslims must realize that they live in a country marked by Christian traditions and the values ​​of the Enlightenment.

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/...-16054156.html

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

A great victory indeed, praise Allah.