Discussion and Debate Community Thread

[PointOfViewGun]

As an escalation on the Mediterranean issue between Greece and Turkey, Greece recently issued a NAVTEX around the island of Kastellorizo with the excuse of conducting a live fire exercise. The duration is 3 days.

[Nebaki]

Backstep from Greece - now the coast guard is making a drill

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Istanbul Convention: Poland to leave European treaty on violence against women

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53538205

*irony* Poland is saving the nucleus family by securing the subordination of women under the god given rule of men... *irony out*

[Mithradates]

Zbigniew Ziobro said the document, known as the Istanbul Convention, was "harmful" because it required schools to teach children about gender.

He argued that the convention violated the rights of parents and "contains elements of an ideological nature".

There is your answer why they are actually withdrawing from the treaty, its the forced trans/gender ideology.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

The Istanbul Convention is the first legally-binding instrument which "creates a comprehensive legal framework and approach to combat violence against women" and is focussed on preventing domestic violence, protecting victims and prosecuting accused offenders.^[23]
It characterizes violence against women as a violation of human rights and a form of discrimination (Art.3(a)). Countries should exercise due diligence when preventing violence, protecting victims and prosecuting perpetrators (Art. 5). The Convention also contains a definition of gender: for the purpose of the Convention gender is defined in Article 3(c) as "the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for women and men". Moreover, the treaty establishes a series of offences characterized as violence against women. States which ratify the Convention must criminalize several offences, including: psychological violence (Art.33); stalking (Art.34); physical violence (Art.35); sexual violence, including rape, explicitly covering all engagement in non-consensual acts of a sexual nature with a person (Art.36), forced marriage (Art.37); female genital mutilation (Art.38), forced abortion and forced sterilisation (Art.39). The Convention states that sexual harassment must be subject to "criminal or other legal sanction" (Art. 40). The Convention also includes an article targeting crimes committed in the name of so-called "honour" (Art. 42).^[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conven...ain_provisions

Sounds clearly ideological that stalking, physical violence, sexual violence and sexual harassment should be a crime...

[Mithradates]

Same source:

Article 4 prohibits several types of discrimination stating: The implementation of the provisions of this Convention by the Parties, in particular measure to protect the rights of victims, shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, gender, race, colour, language political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth, sexual orientation, gender identity, age, state of health, disability, marital status, migrant or refugee status, or other status.

There is that ideology they talk about.

Sounds clearly ideological that stalking, physical violence, sexual violence and sexual harassment should be a crime...

Ahh, because before the Istanbul convention those were not crimes in Poland, and now Poland with the withdrawal wants to decriminalize all that again, right?

[PointOfViewGun]

There is your answer why they are actually withdrawing from the treaty, its the forced trans/gender ideology.

Where in the convention does it have any clause forcing trans/gender ideology?

[HannibalExMachina]

Where in the convention does it have any clause forcing trans/gender ideology?

youll have to see this from the pov of the bigot: bigots are now being forced to no longer harm, with impunity, a certain minority. its like imposing on a husband that he may no longer beat or rape his wife. this, to the husband, is curtailing his rights. his rights to harm someone else.

[Mithradates]

Where in the convention does it have any clause forcing trans/gender ideology?

Article 4 probably? I dont know. I do remember that the gender issue was the main point which they disagreed with.

youll have to see this from the pov of the bigot: bigots are now being forced to no longer harm, with impunity, a certain minority. its like imposing on a husband that he may no longer beat or rape his wife. this, to the husband, is curtailing his rights. his rights to harm someone else.

Indeed, I feel you. Those innocent girls, thousands of them harmed, with impunity in every year, we can just hope that the ratification of the Istanbul Convention by the United Kingdom will happen eventually and the UK will actually do something about those female genital mutilations.
That would enrage a bunch of bigots in the UK, dont you agree?

[PointOfViewGun]

Article 4 probably? I dont know. I do remember that the gender issue was the main point which they disagreed with.

Article 4 of the Istanbul convention:

Article 4 – Fundamental rights, equality and non-discrimination

1Parties shall take the necessary legislative and other measures to promote and protect the right for everyone, particularly women, to live free from violence in both the public and the private sphere.

2Parties condemn all forms of discrimination against women and take, without delay, the necessary legislative and other measures to prevent it, in particular by:

–embodying in their national constitutions or other appropriate legislation the principle of equality between women and men and ensuring the practical realisation of this principle;
–prohibiting discrimination against women, including through the use of sanctions, where appropriate;
–abolishing laws and practices which discriminate against women.

3The implementation of the provisions of this Convention by the Parties, in particular measures to protect the rights of victims, shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, gender, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth, sexual orientation, gender identity, age, state of health, disability, marital status, migrant or refugee status, or other status.

4Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention.

Where does it force trans/gender ideology?

[HannibalExMachina]

Article 4 probably? I dont know. I do remember that the gender issue was the main point which they disagreed with.



Indeed, I feel you. Those innocent girls, thousands of them harmed, with impunity in every year, we can just hope that the ratification of the Istanbul Convention by the United Kingdom will happen eventually and the UK will actually do something about those female genital mutilations.
That would enrage a bunch of bigots in the UK, dont you agree?

true, all the transphobes make for plenty bigots. not that they care about female mutilation either, unless its to demonize someone.

but since you had to change the subject, we can conclude that you are out of arguments, as always, and thus you have conceded the point.

[Mithradates]

true, all the transphobes make for plenty bigots. not that they care about female mutilation either, unless its to demonize someone.

but since you had to change the subject, we can conclude that you are out of arguments, as always, and thus you have conceded the point.

Oh, but I didnt change the subject, it was still the Istanbul Convention and how bigots "harm, with impunity, a certain minority" ...although I did change the country and the crime, as it seems you are not confortable with that, why is that? Im sure you are not one of those guys who only bashes "bigots" who have a certain skin color, right?

Also, those "transphobes" in Poland apparently do care about female mutilation because they, unlike the UK, are doing a pretty good job combating it.

[Muizer]

Perhaps they should consider withdrawing from the EU as well, and take their Hungarian friends with them.

[Mithradates]

And why would they do that? I dont see how withdrawing from the EU would benefit Poland.

[PointOfViewGun]

Oh, but I didnt change the subject, it was still the Istanbul Convention and how bigots "harm, with impunity, a certain minority" ...although I did change the country and the crime, as it seems you are not confortable with that, why is that? Im sure you are not one of those guys who only bashes "bigots" who have a certain skin color, right?

Also, those "transphobes" in Poland apparently do care about female mutilation because they, unlike the UK, are doing a pretty good job combating it.

Any reason why you're deflecting from telling us where in the Article 4 of the convention it forces trans/gender ideology?

[Mithradates]

Any reason why you're deflecting from telling us where in the Article 4 of the convention it forces trans/gender ideology?

Because I have already told you:

Article 4 probably? I dont know. I do remember that the gender issue was the main point which they disagreed with.

Which it was, I even quoted those parts from the BBC article.
Where is the problematic part in the Convention? I dont know. Maybe they dont want to sign anything what even just mentions gender ideology because they think that would mean that they acknowledge it or something.
But that is just a guess, I dont know, ask them if you are interested.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because I have already told you:
Which it was, I even quoted those parts from the BBC article.
Where is the problematic part in the Convention? I dont know. Maybe they dont want to sign anything what even just mentions gender ideology because they think that would mean that they acknowledge it or something.
But that is just a guess, I dont know, ask them if you are interested.

As the person propagating their claims you should either show us where it is forced or acknowledge that they're merely lying.

[HannibalExMachina]

Oh, but I didnt change the subject, it was still the Istanbul Convention and how bigots "harm, with impunity, a certain minority" ...although I did change the country and the crime, as it seems you are not confortable with that, why is that? Im sure you are not one of those guys who only bashes "bigots" who have a certain skin color, right?

Also, those "transphobes" in Poland apparently do care about female mutilation because they, unlike the UK, are doing a pretty good job combating it.

you are correct, i dont bash bigots based on skin color. but guess who does

so, what other minority is harmed by bigots? lgbqt+ people (you know, those subject to this nefarious aganda you like to hint at), are harmed by bigots of both minorities and the majority.

is genital mutilation even a controversial subject? who has spoken in favour of that?

[Muizer]

And why would they do that? I dont see how withdrawing from the EU would benefit Poland.

Oh I don't think they will, of their own volition anyway. Someone who joins club with certain house rules and then proceeds to ignore them and even complain of uncalled for interference when reminded almost certainly won't have the wherewithal to recognize when they've crossed the line to the point they're no longer wanted let alone have the decency to act accordingly and leave.

[Cope]

Oh I don't think they will, of their own volition anyway. Someone who joins club with certain house rules and then proceeds to ignore them and even complain of uncalled for interference when reminded almost certainly won't have the wherewithal to recognize when they've crossed the line to the point they're no longer wanted let alone have the decency to act accordingly and leave.

The EU ignores its own rules all the time. Maybe it should cancel itself?