Implementing Skaven

[Zephyrus]

Since some people seem to think that Skaven would be a difficult race to implement in game, I've decided to open a thread to see all the various possibilities of their emergence in the next 2 expansions. One of the ways I've considered is to make use of their 4 Great Houses, as they are the ones with the most control over Skavendom, into 4 playable, rival factions. Elves as a race have 3 factions, and Chaos 4, with a 5th as Chaos undivided, so it would not be too much of a stretch to include these as well in their racial alignment. The Warlord clans and Thrall clans are irrelevant except as minor rebellion events, and are always aligned to either one of the Great houses.

The Great Houses of Skavendom each focus on a unique strategy and gameplay style. Their quest chains would also lead them to the position of being the "favored clan" of the Council of 13 and the Horned Rat, moving to unite Skavendom and conquer their rivals and gaining their benefits/units until they become the "Greatest House of the Horned Rat" and uniting the UnderEmpire for expansion and End Times goals.

[Richard III]

I see the Skaven coming in the third expansion pack when the campaign map extends to Lustria (Big Lizardmen fan boy here.)

Implementing the tails on models should be very interesting, and both races will need them. I'm not 100% on the timeline of the game, but Lustria as I remember it was involved in a brutal war between the two. The Vampires and Dark Elves could also potentially have footholds on the island as well.

As as to your idea of the Skaven fighting each other, I can definitely see it. CA seems to be setting up the game where on the beginning the main factions are splintered, needing to be united before they can reach their full potential. whether it be displomacy (the empire, dwarves), combat (Skaven, Orcs/goblins, chaos) or a mixture of the two (vampire counts/etc)

[Påsan]

Skaven would probably be the same as the empire. You start off with one clan and have to unite the rest to use theor units. I don't see all four clans being playable. With mods maybe.

[Red Dox]

I find it amusing how you get the right idea, to divide Skaven into their Clan subfactions but then you go on and say "there is this one elven race with 3 subfactions (High, Dark, Wood)". To be precise, if we do them the same justice as you want for Skaven, it is more like

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

High Elves:
Eataine
Avelorn
Cothique
Yvresse
Chrace
Ellyrion
Tiranoc
Saphery
Caledor
Shadowlands

Dark Elves:
Naggarond, the Tower of Cold, Dark Elf capital and seat of the Witch King.
Ghrond, the North Tower where the sorceresses study the Realm of Chaos.
Karond Kar, the Tower of Despair, largest slave port of the Dark Elves.
Hag Graef, the Dark Crag which is never touched by the sun's rays.
Har Ganeth, the City of Executioners and religious capital of Cult of Khaine.
Clar Karond, the Tower of Doom and largest Dark Elf shipyard.

Wood Elves:
Have different Kinbands but I do not know how splintered they really are in their single forest. I doubt that they plot against each other in the same way as the Druchii do on a daily basis or have greater differences in opinion like the High Elves sometimes show.

Back to Skaven, we have the for Great Clans
Clan Skryre, technological savants
Clan Eshin, stealthy assassins
Clan Moulder, breeders of fighting beasts
Clan Pestilens, spreaders of disease and plague
and several "normal" Clans building the bulk of the armies. In my opinion including Clan Mors would be a solid option to represent them. It would also offer the (DLC) option to include Queek Headtaker for some Karak Eight Peaks action.

At the moment, it looks like Karl Franz has to unite 11 lords for his empire. There is not much imagination needed to assume that Grimgor Ironhide also will have to conquer several greenskin tribes on his way (a forest goblin tribe for spider access as example). And if two can play that game it should be logical that the five different Vampire Bloodlines and several Dwarf Clans could be used in the same way to focus on some civil war besides conquering the Old World. And that such a powerplay would also be used for expansion races, since every armybook can field some subfactions. So I do not doubt we will see some Skaven subfactions.

The real elephant in the room is still: If we do not play the story driven campaign with a "preset" leader (like a skirmish game or multiplayer), is there an option to choose a leader and faction for personal preferences? Could I lead Clan Eshin to victory or conquer the world with Crooked Moon Nightgoblins?
Or is something like this the first big mod to come

-----Red Dox

[Zephyrus]

I find it amusing how you get the right idea, to divide Skaven into their Clan subfactions but then you go on and say "there is this one elven race with 3 subfactions (High, Dark, Wood)". To be precise, if we do them the same justice as you want for Skaven, it is more like

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

High Elves:
Eataine
Avelorn
Cothique
Yvresse
Chrace
Ellyrion
Tiranoc
Saphery
Caledor
Shadowlands

Dark Elves:
Naggarond, the Tower of Cold, Dark Elf capital and seat of the Witch King.
Ghrond, the North Tower where the sorceresses study the Realm of Chaos.
Karond Kar, the Tower of Despair, largest slave port of the Dark Elves.
Hag Graef, the Dark Crag which is never touched by the sun's rays.
Har Ganeth, the City of Executioners and religious capital of Cult of Khaine.
Clar Karond, the Tower of Doom and largest Dark Elf shipyard.

Wood Elves:
Have different Kinbands but I do not know how splintered they really are in their single forest. I doubt that they plot against each other in the same way as the Druchii do on a daily basis or have greater differences in opinion like the High Elves sometimes show.

Back to Skaven, we have the for Great Clans
Clan Skryre, technological savants
Clan Eshin, stealthy assassins
Clan Moulder, breeders of fighting beasts
Clan Pestilens, spreaders of disease and plague
and several "normal" Clans building the bulk of the armies. In my opinion including Clan Mors would be a solid option to represent them. It would also offer the (DLC) option to include Queek Headtaker for some Karak Eight Peaks action.

At the moment, it looks like Karl Franz has to unite 11 lords for his empire. There is not much imagination needed to assume that Grimgor Ironhide also will have to conquer several greenskin tribes on his way (a forest goblin tribe for spider access as example). And if two can play that game it should be logical that the five different Vampire Bloodlines and several Dwarf Clans could be used in the same way to focus on some civil war besides conquering the Old World. And that such a powerplay would also be used for expansion races, since every armybook can field some subfactions. So I do not doubt we will see some Skaven subfactions.

The real elephant in the room is still: If we do not play the story driven campaign with a "preset" leader (like a skirmish game or multiplayer), is there an option to choose a leader and faction for personal preferences? Could I lead Clan Eshin to victory or conquer the world with Crooked Moon Nightgoblins?
Or is something like this the first big mod to come

-----Red Dox

So we could potentially see 5 factions under each race in the third expansion, which might have Skaven, Elves (High, Dark, and Wood), and Lizardmen. It would be interesting to see which 5 factions each Elf type would have, and what factions are present under the lizardmen. I'll admit, I'm not as big a fan of the Elves or Lizardmen, so their best factions are unknown to me. They would make for some very interesting opponents and battles on the map.

I see the Skaven coming in the third expansion pack when the campaign map extends to Lustria (Big Lizardmen fan boy here.)

Implementing the tails on models should be very interesting, and both races will need them. I'm not 100% on the timeline of the game, but Lustria as I remember it was involved in a brutal war between the two. The Vampires and Dark Elves could also potentially have footholds on the island as well.

As as to your idea of the Skaven fighting each other, I can definitely see it. CA seems to be setting up the game where on the beginning the main factions are splintered, needing to be united before they can reach their full potential. whether it be displomacy (the empire, dwarves), combat (Skaven, Orcs/goblins, chaos) or a mixture of the two (vampire counts/etc)

It would definitely make more sense to leave the tailed animations for the 3rd expansion, after seeing how the first 2 games pan out. DLC content-related, I'd love to see some mercenary bands/companies of these creatures unlock-able and available in the first and second games.

[Col. Tartleton]

Skaven were driven out of Lustria thousands of years ago. The Serpent God of the Lizardmen incarnated around the same time as Sigmar. There was a genocidal war. The Skaven and Lizardmen contest the South Lands, although the Skaven invade Lustria again during the End Times.

It's very much a "Time of Legends" part of the history.

Lustria still has loads of savage orcs, vampire pirates, adventurers from the Old World, Dark Elf corsairs, and the occasional demonic incursion to put up with. The overseas Lizardmen in the South Lands are the ones who have to deal with the Skaven and they far fewer resources.

The main issue in Lustria is Xahutec, a city which has become a breach in reality that the Daemons endlessly pour through. Fortunately the spawnings of the Lizardmen are also without number, but its a huge draw on resources and Kroq Gar continues to pour countless cohorts and legions of saurus into a meat grinder that inevitably kills them all because he's a reptile and that's their concept of strategic genius.

I love Kroq Gar. Such a goober.

[korsakoff]

i'm very interested on how they will be implemented on the campaign map considering the Skaven live and have a huge empire under the ground. Possibility of the campaign map having two layers? Also most Skaven fight against each other as they have had quite a few civil wars and only in rare times to do they form huge armies to fight against the other races.

[You_Guess_Who]

i'm very interested on how they will be implemented on the campaign map considering the Skaven live and have a huge empire under the ground. Possibility of the campaign map having two layers?

Exactly. Skavens do not rule wide expanses of territories above grounds, and most of their population centers are underground mirrors of Human towns and cities. On how would their tunnel network will be, CA may do it somewhat like Fall of The Samurai's railway network. However, how on earth would their cities and territories work? I can't imagine how Above-Ground Race armies would interact with it. In the underground labyrinths, how could Above-Ground Races deal with them? So there would be Skaven armies popping out holes all around the territories and there is nothing to stop that? Even for Dwarfs, seasoned tunnel-fighters, exterminating Skavens is hard.

[Zephyrus]

It's possible for Skaven to fight and operate above ground too. If they change their bases to conquered human cities, it'd be possible to launch attacks and build up from there. It's lorelol, but probably would be easier for them to put in gameplay.

[andreumarmas]

Exactly. Skavens do not rule wide expanses of territories above grounds, and most of their population centers are underground mirrors of Human towns and cities. On how would their tunnel network will be, CA may do it somewhat like Fall of The Samurai's railway network. However, how on earth would their cities and territories work? I can't imagine how Above-Ground Race armies would interact with it. In the underground labyrinths, how could Above-Ground Races deal with them? So there would be Skaven armies popping out holes all around the territories and there is nothing to stop that? Even for Dwarfs, seasoned tunnel-fighters, exterminating Skavens is hard.

I think you maybe can control the tunnels arround your city with some kind of patrol like the which hunters (in human case). Probably the city will have many tunnels to get in so it wont be so easy surround with skaven armies the whole city and maybe its one requeriment to assault the city. Maybe you can go underground with humans too to attack them but you suffer attrition like in other totalwar games when you cross the desert or the cold mountains and it will very hard to destroy skaven cities. Anyway i hope they implement skavens very soon, its my favourite faction. Btw, if dwarfs are in 1st moment, how they will implement their underground cities?

[Aquila_Mars]

Would be pretty amazing if underground battle maps/campaign map was a thing.

[ScipioGermanicus]

Would be pretty amazing if underground battle maps/campaign map was a thing.

There is some reason to believe (the announcement trailer/intro and the dwarves short teaser), that they will come in the first part.
If not, well it would make a good feature for one of the other parts of the trilogy.

[Wolster]

Age of Wonders game, has a split level campaign (surface & underground), with access caves alowing movement from one to the other, would be simple to utilize in a Total War campaign, the linking caves could easily be replaced with Skaven cities.

[joedreck]

I don't think it would be difficult.
You start in a conquerd City as a clan you chosen. After you conquerd 2nd City other clans camu as Rebell and try to conquer you or other City. Thats it!

I disagree with 5 chaos factions. Because they is just one and the Player have the choice to mark his units.

[Aquila_Mars]

I don't think it would be difficult.
You start in a conquerd City as a clan you chosen. After you conquerd 2nd City other clans camu as Rebell and try to conquer you or other City. Thats it!

I disagree with 5 chaos factions. Because they is just one and the Player have the choice to mark his units.

Actually, no. Chaos Gods and their champions frequently fight against each other. Chaos undivided (single faction chaos) is what happens when one champion unites the rest under his banner.

And that is bad, bad, bad for everyone down south.

[ScipioGermanicus]

Actually, no. Chaos Gods and their champions frequently fight against each other. Chaos undivided (single faction chaos) is what happens when one champion unites the rest under his banner.

And that is bad, bad, bad for everyone down south.

No doubt that there will be a number of different chaos warrior factions, since the general CA approach is: unite your race, than beat up the others. But that has tha tdivison to be in chaos god lines?
You could choose imply a different tribe of the north and than still have a system where you can either devote yourself to one god entirely, try a mixture or go for chaos undivided.

[Zephyrus]

There's a lot of great directions to go in, for the chaos factions.

[joedreck]

Actually, no. Chaos Gods and their champions frequently fight against each other. Chaos undivided (single faction chaos) is what happens when one champion unites the rest under his banner.

That's right, but I want to get the choice to Start unmarked and decide later on who I follow and Maybe later change my choice. And it could work great if AI also choice their way random. So it could happens you are Khorne follower, but your ally was influenced by Nurgle, so it means WAR! Is this not what the gods want!? To get you on their side with promisses. And also it would be great to play unmarked - Black and beauty.

By the way I would Wonder if CA do not add skaven after all the many people like them. I wonder how many Fans they have. Seems more then dwarf have and they are in.

[scoicarius]

I found this great map depicting the world from the perspective of the Skaven:



It also shows what the Skaven underground network of tunnels might look like. It would be very interesting if all the cities listed on the map were connected under ground.

[Dalakh]

I was disappointed to learn that the underground stuff is linked to an army stance that you can take in the area of influence of your city and allows you to pass under impassable terrain. That straight up means no underground campaign map level, at least for now.
Also they said a battle like the one of the thundering fall is what can happen when you change stance from tunneling to normal (so getting back to the surface). Apparently it's called an interception battle, not sure how exactly it works on the campaign map.