High Era - 1300-1492 (Historic Background Research Thread)

[Melooo182]

So we already have a template for High Era campaign, which is SS6.4+Bugfix Compilation 1.27 Late Era's one.
I did fixed up many of the historical inaccuracies for some Family Trees but i think it could still be better and well political borders and regions shapes do need an overhaul like Early Era got. This is without mentioning that the new factions Families need to be done as well.


The purpose of this thread is for gathering info of the period and discuss what can be represented ingame or not, as well preview progress being done.
Expect some screenies soon of what's been done

Balkans 1220

Very early draft of the map for a 1220 campaign


Main High Era Campaign will start at 1300
but there will be an additional one with ~1220 starting date.

[juanen7]

Hi, this is my first post here , but i wanted to help a little bit with this.
I'm not an expert so i thought searching in Wikipedia could be a great idea. And then after seeing what Wikipedia have, complet with other places or with the knowledgement of other people.

So for the 13th century we have:

EVENTS
1228-1229—Sixth Crusade
1239–1250—Third conflict between Holy Roman Empire–Papacy
1243–1250—Second Holy Roman Empire–Papacy War
1248-1254—Seventh Crusade
1256-1270—War of Saint Sabas between Genoa and Venice
1258—Baghdad captured and destroyed by the Mongols, effective conclusion of the Caliphate
1260—Toluid Civil War begins between Kublai Khan and Ariq Böke for the title of Great Khan.
1265-1268— Eighth Crusade
1271—Edward I of England and Charles of Anjou arrive in Acre, starting the Ninth Crusade against Baibars.
1272-1274—Second Council of Lyon attempts to unite the Churches of the Eastern Roman Empire with the Church of Rome.
1282—Aragon acquires Sicily, after the Sicilian Vespers.
1284-1285—Aragonese Crusade
1291—The Swiss Confederation of Uri, Schwyz, and Unterwalden forms

Others
-Attacks of the Mongol Empire to Hungary, Poland, Kievan Rus,
-Livonian Crusade and attacks between the Teutonic Order and Russians


14th century:

EVENTS
-The Great Famine of 1315-1317 kills millions of people in Europe.
-Poland unification by Vladislao I. (1322)
-The Hundred Years' War begins when Edward III of England lays claim to the French throne. (1337)
-Bulgarian–Ottoman Wars (1340-1396)
-Black Death kills around a third of the population of Europe. (1347–1351).
-Castilian Civil War (1351-1369)
-The Great Schism of the West begins in 1378, eventually leading to 3 simultaneous popes.
-Ciompi Revolt (1378-1382)
-Peasant's revolt in England (1381)
-Portuguese Interregnum (1383-1385)
-Union of Krewo between Poland and Lithuania (1385)
-Crusade of Nicopolis (1396)
-The Kalmar Union is established in 1397, uniting Norway, Sweden and Denmark into one kingdom.

Others
-The Scots win the Scottish Wars of Independence.
-The Little Ice Age occurred

15th century:

EVENTS
-Compromise of Caspe (1412)
-Council of Constance (1414-1418)
-Hussite Wars in Bohemia (1420-1434)
-Treaty of Medina del Campo (1431)
-Treaty of Christmemel (1431)
-The Golden Horde breaks up into the Siberia Khanate, the Khanate of Kazan, the Astrakhan Khanate, the Crimean Khanate, and theGreat Horde (1440s)
-Crusade of Varna (1443-1444)
-The Albanian league is established (1444)
-Thirteen Years' War (1454–1466)
-War of the Roses (1455-1487)


And finally a compendium of Disasters

-Earthquake of Cyprus (1222)
-Earthquake Of Brescia (1222)
-Earthquake of Cilicia (1268)
-South England flood and St Lucia's flood (1287)
-Earthquake of Crete (1303)
-All Saints Day flood (1304)
-St. Mary Magdalene's flood (1342)
-Earthquake of 1343 in the Bay of Naples
-Earthquake of Friuli (1348)
-Earthquake of Basel (1356)
-Saint Marcellus' flood (1362)
-St. Elizabeth's flood (1404)
-St. Elizabeth's flood (1421)
-All Saints Day Flood (1436)

[paleologos]

Thank you for your contribution, that is a +1 rep.
However I cannot figure out how you missed the significance of AD 1453 in history.
The year Constantinople fell, also the year the Hundred Years' War ended.

[Melooo182]

BTW Crusader States will include the Latin Empire Territories and Ruling Family/Characters
so those must be researched as well.

As for Bulgarian Roster, been reading this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Bulgarian_army

During the Second Empire, foreign and mercenary soldiers became an important part of the Bulgarian army and its tactics. Since the very beginning of the rebellion of Asen and Peter, the light and mobile Cuman cavalry was effectively used against the Byzantines and later the Crusaders. For instance, fourteen thousand of them were used by Kaloyan in the battle of Adrianople. The Cumans were the empire's most effective military component. The Cuman leaders entered the ranks of Bulgarian nobility, and some of them received high military or administrative posts in the state. During the 14th century the Bulgarian army increasingly relied on foreign mercenaries, which included Western knights, Mongols, Ossetians or came from vassal Wallachia. Both Michael III Shishman and Ivan Alexander had a 3,000-strong Mongol cavalry detachment in their armies. In the 1350s, Emperor Ivan Alexander even hired Ottoman bands, as did the Byzantine Emperor. Russians were also hired as mercenaries.

The Bulgarian army was very mobile — for instance prior to the battle of Klokotnitsa for four days it covered a distance three times longer than the Epirote army for a week; in 1332 it covered 230 km for five days.

Well I suppose this means many Cuman units will still be used by the Bulgarians , specially the light cavalry.
And maybe some byzies units might be shared as well, specially those mercenaries like latinikon etc

The long period of Byzantine rule had left its mark on the Bulgarian army — the titles during the Second Empire were mostly borrowed from Byzantium. In the absence of the Emperor the commander-in-chief was called velik (great) voivoda; the commander of smaller squads was a voivoda and a strator was the person responsible for the defense of certain regions and the recruitment of soldiers.

KER traits and ancillaries could be very similar to that of the Byzies.

[Melooo182]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Crusade
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemond_IV_of_Antioch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Cyprus

In July 1218 the crusaders began their siege of Damietta, and despite resistance from the unprepared sultan Al-Adil, the tower outside the city was taken on August 25. They could not gain Damietta itself, and in the ensuing months diseases killed many of the crusaders, including Robert of Courcon. Al-Adil also died and was succeeded by Al-Kamil. Meanwhile, Honorius III sentPelagius of Albano to lead the crusade in 1219 . Al-Kamil tried to negotiate peace with the crusaders. He offered to trade Damiettafor Jerusalem, but Pelagius would not accept these offers. After hearing this Count William I of Holland left the crusade and sailed home. In August or September, Francis of Assisi arrived in the crusader camp and crossed over to preach to Al-Kamil. By November, the crusaders had worn out the sultan's forces, and were finally able to occupy the port.Immediately the papal and secular powers fought for control of the town, with John of Brienne claiming it for himself in 1220. Pelagius would not accept this, and John returned to Acre later that year. Pelagius hoped Frederick II would arrive with a fresh army, but he never did; instead, after a year of inactivity in both Syria and Egypt, John of Brienne returned, and the crusaders marched south towards Cairo in July 1221 . This march was observed by the forces of Al-Kamil, and frequent raids along the flanks of the army led to the withdrawal of some 2000 German troops who refused to continue the advance and returned to Damietta.
By now Al-Kamil was able to ally with the other Ayyubids in Syria, who had defeated Keykavus I. The crusader march to Cairo was disastrous; the river Nile flooded ahead of them, stopping the crusader advance. A dry canal that was previously crossed by the crusaders flooded, thus blocking the crusader army's retreat. With supplies dwindling, a forced retreat began, culminating in a night time attack by Al-Kamil which resulted in a great number of crusader losses and eventually in the surrender of the army under Pelagius.

So according to this, crusaders states should have armies surrounding Damietta at campaign start
Also Antioch should still be part of Crusader States but not Jerusalem as it is erroneously in SS6.4 late era, Ayyubids were still in possession of it by 1220.

And summing up Latin Empire Territories, the crusader states shouldn't be that weak of a faction, although dispersed.

Antioch, Tripoli, Acre, Cyprus, Constantinople, Thessalonika, Athens, Morea(Corinth) and Dardanelles + Damietta(if captured)
Unique Strat map models for Latin Emperor and hereditary titles for Latin Empire regions is already scripted in Early Era Campaign, just need to be copied over to High Era.

[Grabbin_Megroin]

Man this is gonna be amazing. Can't wait for the release!

[+Marius+]

Finally, a reason to return to SS


Firstly, I advise to jump the start date a few decades to avoid the Mongol Conquest of Europe and have the game start after the invasion.

Why?
1) It removes the problematic need to implement the Mongol Invasion which is firstly very difficult to do, and secondly, if successful, will result in the destruction of every eastern faction in a mere couple of decades.
2) It was after the invasions that feudalism actually started to take proper wave in Hungary, Poland and the surrounding area, which later resulted in several major Mongol defeats in the later invasions of Hungary/Poland.
3) You can have both Golden Horde and the Ilkhanate as two separate Mongol entities and proper factions instead of a singular major invasion horde that messes up the gameplay.
4) These two Mongol factions were practically independent at this time and even went to war with each other several times(they went to war already in 1262), again, this brings a proper Mongol gameplay into the fray instead of a huge boring glob of fullstacks flooding all over the place.


I suggest a start date of 1258, when Baghdad was captured and destroyed by the Mongols, this date also works with the formation of the Ilkhanate by its first khan Hulagu, this also gives the game a perfect replacement for the Khwarazmian faction on the map;




In regards to the mentioned events, here are the wiki "per year" history links for the three centuries that this mode will encompass;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15th_century

[paleologos]

That sounds reasonable enough to me.

[+Marius+]

Actually, maybe a better start date would be 1261, when the Empire of Nicea under the Palaiologos dynasty finally entered Constantinople and reformed the Roman Empire.

Why?
Whelp, because you can't exactly have the Byzantine Empire as a faction before that date(yes, the SS late campaign is extremely inaccurate for having the Byzantines as a faction in 1220) and it eliminates the nuisance of having the Latin Empire as a temporary faction.

Here is a map of the newly reformed Empire in its recovered borders;

[+Marius+]

Another reason why pushing back the start date would work;

The dissolution of the Almohad Caliphate happened in 1269 which results in having multiple possible faction candidates instead of the old boring Moor's clone.

Firstly there is the Emirate of Granada in Spain;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Granada

then the Marinid dynasty in Morocco;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinid_dynasty

(though the Marinid dynasty should probably be the proper replacement with also having the territories of Granada since they were allied with them and Granada was the smaller arm in the alliance)



and lastly the Hafsid dynasty in Tunisia;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafsid_dynasty


There is also Tlemcen but...this is not Europa Universalis so...

[+Marius+]

Then again, maybe delay the start date up to the year 1300, because then we finally get the Ottomans as a faction and it weakens the Mongol khanates enough for them to become regular factions instead of superpowers.

Here is a series of maps showing what the campaign would look like;

[+Marius+]

Also, why is the end date 1470?

I believe that a better solution would be 1492 or perhaps going slightly into the 16th century by having the end date 1517(Martin Luther starts the Reformation) or 1529(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vienna).

That way we get at least a couple of decades to properly use gunpowder units, late gothic/maximilian plate units as well as late pike units.

[Melooo182]

Also, why is the end date 1470?

I believe that a better solution would be 1492 or perhaps going slightly into the 16th century by having the end date 1517(Martin Luther starts the Reformation) or 1529(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vienna).

That way we get at least a couple of decades to properly use gunpowder units, late gothic/maximilian plate units as well as late pike units.

That's why there will be a Late Era Campaign, for displaying the last technological transition of the Gothic/Full Plate to Pike n Shot (1450-1620).

I do like the Idea of starting around 1261 with a restored Byzantium and the Ilkhanate replacing the Khwarezmid, however I also want a ~1200 campaign with the Latin Empire and the whole struggle in the Balkans with Bulgaria, Serbia and Byzies fragmented states...perhaps we could have both.
kinda like i've been "secretly" creating a 1149-1350 campaign exclusively to have Portugal in an early period frame but shhh xD of course this has the lowest of priorities.

The end date of 1470 was to keep it to 500turns (which imo is still too long for 2TPY) like Early Era 1100-1350 does closing with the black death plague pandemic D:
this also serves the purpose of freeing the EDU of a bunch of Late units allowing to do justice for the new factions rosters and perhaps more.

If you can help me with compiling all the historical info for the 1261 or 1300 families, names, political borders, diplomatic relations...so i just have to transcribe it to the descr_start.txt, and also prepare some faction description/history background...we could have this in relatively no time
The EDU and EDB and etc would still be laregely the same than the 1220 one.

Those maps you posted for 1300 can really help for drawing the faction borders very quickly, just need to add which were the prominent settlements by in the time frame

I really think 1300 is a good date with apparently easier to find info

[+Marius+]

That's why there will be a Late Era Campaign, for displaying the last technological transition of the Gothic/Full Plate to Pike n Shot (1450-1620).

Ooh, noice

I was slightly confused with the title of the scenario since the current historical separation puts the high middle ages from 1000 til 1300 and the late medieval period from 1300 to 1500;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Middle_Ages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Middle_Ages

...thus I though you simply merged the two and abandoned the 16th century altogether.

I do like the Idea of starting around 1261 with a restored Byzantium and the Ilkhanate replacing the Khwarezmid

Don't forget finally having a faction in Tunisia.

Ihowever I also want a ~1200 campaign with the Latin Empire and the whole struggle in the Balkans with Bulgaria, Serbia and Byzies fragmented states...

That really sounds like a regional scenario and not a grand total war campaign though...

The end date of 1470 was to keep it to 500turns (which imo is still too long for 2TPY) like Early Era 1100-1350 does closing with the black death plague pandemic D:
this also serves the purpose of freeing the EDU of a bunch of Late units allowing to do justice for the new factions rosters and perhaps more.

Whelp, if you push the start date then its 1470-1270 = 200 years = 400 turns so there is still some end date leeway.

If you can help me with compiling all the historical info for the 1261 or 1300 families, names, political borders, diplomatic relations...so i just have to transcribe it to the descr_start.txt, and also prepare some faction description/history background...we could have this in relatively no time

Give me an official start date , the list of factions and I will be done with it in haste.

I really think 1300 is a good date with apparently easier to find info

Info finding is always more manageable for rounded years because people who construct historical timelines are obsessed with having a 0 at the end of each specified year that represents a period.

I also think that the year 1300 is far more ideal for this scenario as it brings the player directly into the late middle ages and finally brings about the Ottomans into a medieval period total war game which is really immersive since they were of paramount importance since the late 14th century onward's.

[+Marius+]

In regards to the Crusaders;

Henry II of Jerusalem was both king of Jerusalem and king of Cyprus before Acre fell, if we also take into account that the island of Rhodes was taken from the Byzantine Empire in 1309 by the knights Hospitaller, we can actually talk about having the crusaders states with 3 provinces even in the late period; Rhodes, Cyprus and Acre, two islands and a coastal city.

[Used2BRoz]

Just 2 quick points:
1) whatever start date you choose some factions will get an advantage, others a disadvantage - and someone will complain.
I'd go for a nice round number - such as 1300 and work around that.
2) I'd keep all the "natural" events - earthquakes, volcanoes - if any, plague plus known dates for technological advances . You can mention historical events as as background information, but avoid scripting in any specific historical events such as uprisings etc.
I like the sandbox view of the game - you set the initial parameters and then let it play out without giving it historical nudges to make historical events happen.

[Melooo182]

you mean like no timurids invasion?

[+Marius+]

you mean like no timurids invasion?

Well, first of all, Timurs conquests were completely dependent on the dissolution of the Ilkhanate, and the weakening of the Golden Horde and several other factions in the area so in this game period it would be unlikely to happen since both the Ilkhanate and the Golden Horde will survive(if not destroyed by the player ofc) well past the 1370s.

Also...we kinda already have two Mongol factions, what would be the purpose of a third one apart from seeing the elephants?

Would it not be better to use the faction slot for another more immersive faction?

[+Marius+]

In fact, you could use the unit roster of the Timurids and give it in its entirety to the Ilkhanate, two problems with one stone.


So, current faction list in my mind;

1) Kingdom of England
2) Kingdom of Scotland
3) Holy Roman Empire
4) Kingdom of France
5) Kingdom of Castile
6) Kingdom of Aragon
7) Kingdom of Hungary
8) Kingdom of Poland
9) Kingdom of Denmark
10) Kingdom of Sweden
11) Teutonic Order
12) Grand duchy of Lithuania
13) Republic of Novgorod
14) The Golden Horde
15) Republic of Venice
16) Kingdom of Serbia
17) The Papal states
18) Kingdom of Naples
19) Marinid Sultanate
20) Hafsid Caliphate
21) Mamluk Sultanate
22) The Crusader states
23) The Roman Empire
24) The Ilkhanate
25) The Ottoman Sultanate/Empire
26) Republic of Genoa



Few faction slots remain, candidates;

Kingdom of Sicily(the island of Sicily, independent since the sicilian vespers until 1409)
Kingdom of Portugal(expanded into current modern borders, a fairly powerful kingdom led by the very capable king Denis "the Farmer/Poet King")
Kingdom of Cilicia(allied with the Mongols and under a sneaky king Sempad, married to the Khan's young daughter)
Kingdom of Georgia(a fierce kingdom in the Caucasus led by a very capable kings David VIII and George V after him, who not only intervened in Mongol affairs but also defeated their invading armies proclaiming independence)
Grand Duchy of Muscovy(recently founded by duke Daniel)

The Bulgarian Empire, resurrected under Theodore Svetoslav, it became a regional powerhouse in the next few decades;

[Grabbin_Megroin]

Big invasions are fun and challenging, and a campaign without one would seem a little dull. Even if it's more appropriate to take it out like you said, maybe we should keep it for the sake of entertainment.