Why the BLACK ANT synbdrome - why does even a small zoom make all units black

[Destraex]

The latest black fire pass trailer impressed me apart from the actual close combat. And the generic army theme colours.
Also black ant syndrome is still present at even a minor zoom.

Can CA make armies colourful at a zoom again as in previous total war games. It's so boring to look at black ants and defeats the purpose of CAs red vs blue army colours which attempts to allow the player to see which units are on his or her side at a distance.

Go look at medieval 2 CA - Bring back being able to actually enjoy the spectacle of a colourful and large army.




A fairly long zoom... amazing I can still make out the colours? But not in total war!


Rome total war 2

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Go look at medieval 2 CA - Bring back being able to actually enjoy the spectacle of a colourful and large army.

That's what you get when comparing TW games with half-finished TW(?) games(?). TW is dead.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

There were a lot of people who wanted to have less color on units.
Personally I like to have color on the unit, you can just compare rome 2 pre patch 1,6 and the 1,6 patch.
They tone down the colors so much, it is really sad.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Shogun 2, if I recall correctly, had nice, colorful lines even when zoomed out as well. Empire and Napoleon both definitely did.

I really don't know what happened.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Shogun 2, if I recall correctly, had nice, colorful lines even when zoomed out as well. Empire and Napoleon both definitely did.

I really don't know what happened.

You do!...

[Destraex]

It pretty much happened after the warscape engine was introduced right after empire total war. This was the last time we actually had real 3D soldiers at a distance it seems. Napoleon was less noticeable but very pastel in colour and 3D effects were less pronounced... but it ran better. Shogun is where is really started to go down hill and we started to see the really bad black stick figures.


Empire Total War zoomed out. How nice does it look? No Black here at all. Because its sunny!!!

[Destraex]

Even way down the hill they are distinct...
Obviously the proper colours and LOD 3D effects are only added after zooming in. After zooming out they must figure in rome2 and now warhammer all you need to see is a black blob of shadow.

[Sheridan]

It was quite alright in Napoleon too, you could distinguish the colours.

Spoiler for Close: 

Spoiler for Far away: 

Above all, the terrain looks more detailed in the slightly older games. Both in Rome II and to some degree Attila, I just don't want to play grassland or hill battles because the terrain looks so peculiar and off.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

I honestly couldn't explain why, but there is always something about the newest Warscape games, Rome 2 and Attila, that feels very surreal and almost makes it hard for me to pay attention in battles. Shogun 2 sort of had this ethereal quality to it, but it really made sense there with the setting and all.

In Empire, I distinctly remember a battle I fought. Two large fields, separated by fences, on the right, while a small town took up the left. Grenadiers went through the town, Line infantry advanced through the field, while a whole artillery battery was situated on a small bluff overlooking the battlefield. There was a light haze in the air, foggy but not truly obscuring much, with a misting rain. It was very immersive and felt real.

Just recently, I fought a battle in Attila. It took place in the middle of a completely flat desert, where two large rocks were inexplicably standing up in the center of the battlefield, and, for some odd reason, it was pouring down rain.

[Sharpe]

I think it has to do with the lighting.

And obviously how far you zoom out.

Here is a 10,000 man battle from Rome 2 at a distance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And here are a few units at a moderate distance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The former being at dusk and the latter being around midday ingame.

You can see in the close up units in the first shot have a darkened quality to them, reflecting the weather while the in the second shot it is far less prominent.

[Greve Af Göteborg]

Yeah, I think it mostly has to do with the lighting on the level. Rome 2 and Atilla seems to have a focus on darker lighting and more of the dusk/dawn type of lighting which makes it very difficult to make out any colours.
While in Shogun 2 you'd pretty much never see dusk or dawn type of lighting, everything tended to be sunny or cloudy but never truly "dark". Except for night battles, and even there the soldiers had the torches which made it easier to see the colours.

[Evan MF]

It has really gotten terrible. Empire/Napoleon LOD looks to be a high point in the series graphically at the zoomed-out range. It's more important than just aesthetics, being able to distinguish your units from far away, without clicking on unit banners and unit cards, is integral to making Total War a 'spatial' experience rather than a spreadsheet experience.

[Sharpe]

The thing that annoyed me in Medieval 2 was the battles devolved into a sea of colour. If it was France vs England and you were fully zoomed out it would red formations fighting blue ones.

It's a difficult facet of the game to address tbh.

[Destraex]

I think it has to do with the lighting.

And obviously how far you zoom out.

Here is a 10,000 man battle from Rome 2 at a distance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And here are a few units at a moderate distance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The former being at dusk and the latter being around midday ingame.

You can see in the close up units in the first shot have a darkened quality to them, reflecting the weather while the in the second shot it is far less prominent.

That second shot is not moderately close... its zoomed almost all the way in. You cannot zoom in like that and control the battle.

[Destraex]

It was quite alright in Napoleon too, you could distinguish the colours.

Spoiler for Close: 

Spoiler for Far away: 

Above all, the terrain looks more detailed in the slightly older games. Both in Rome II and to some degree Attila, I just don't want to play grassland or hill battles because the terrain looks so peculiar and off.

agreed

[Destraex]

I honestly couldn't explain why, but there is always something about the newest Warscape games, Rome 2 and Attila, that feels very surreal and almost makes it hard for me to pay attention in battles. Shogun 2 sort of had this ethereal quality to it, but it really made sense there with the setting and all.

In Empire, I distinctly remember a battle I fought. Two large fields, separated by fences, on the right, while a small town took up the left. Grenadiers went through the town, Line infantry advanced through the field, while a whole artillery battery was situated on a small bluff overlooking the battlefield. There was a light haze in the air, foggy but not truly obscuring much, with a misting rain. It was very immersive and felt real.

Just recently, I fought a battle in Attila. It took place in the middle of a completely flat desert, where two large rocks were inexplicably standing up in the center of the battlefield, and, for some odd reason, it was pouring down rain.

agreed

[Sharpe]

That second shot is not moderately close... its zoomed almost all the way in. You cannot zoom in like that and control the battle.

You're right, but there are troops moderately far away.

[Destraex]

Sharpe but that is not my point. My point is about comparisons to zoomed out views and the most enjoyable thing about total war. Watching your troops both zoomed in and out.
I feel like a blind man watching the later warscape total war games.

[MonsieurMaggot]

This is such a petty complaint. If you want more colorful soldiers just edit your faction colors. Attila even has a setting for team colors so you can clearly discern friend from foe. Your units are sprites at a distance 90% of the time anyways and if you want to compare sprites the newer games have much better looking sprites compared to RTW and Medieval 2.

[Destraex]

Judging by the number of posts you have made you are new to total war games. In older games units were not just sprites zoomed out and were not black. No mod has been able to fix the black ant effect that I know of.
Have you even looked at the screenshots I posted or played the older games?

The newer games are like having a movie or film released on dvd that is too dark to watch. Some versions of the wing commander movie were like this and it was hard to make out any of the glorious detail.