We've all become addicted: Blood and Gore DLC at launch

[Lord Shadowscar]

CA,

First off, crazy cool walkthrough video of Black Forest Pass!
I must confess, when I first heard you went with Warhammer, I was a bit upset; not because I knew anything of the series (I didn't), but because it was one more game keeping me from Victoria: Total War.
However, I'm eagerly awaiting its launch, and the upcoming in-game video playthroughs that shalll precede it.

Now, starting with Shogun 2, you've hooked me and a sizable portion of players on blood and gore DLC. I put down Attila after 2 days of playing because without the stuff, the games feel off. Battle carries no extra faux-consequences, and Machinima doesn't look as spectacular.
I understand, somewhat reluctantly, DLC practices of contemporary gaming, and while I certainly don't support all your business moves (Beasts of War, ahem), I find blood and gore an acceptable add-on purchase. We want it because it makes the game grittier and certainly more cinematic, and you leave it off because you'd appeal to a wider player base.

But please. Give us our fix. Consider day 1 blood DLC.

Yours ever-addicted,

Lord Shadowscar

[Frost-Byte]

No.No.No.No.No.No!

It should be free in the first place, since when should we be hyped for visual effects that should be in the base game that CA charge us for? Are you an astroturfer or something!?

[paradamed]

It should not be a DLC to begin with! I mean, this is warhammer! It should be in the game by default!

[Yayattasa]

It should not be a DLC to begin with! I mean, this is warhammer! It should be in the game by default!

They want a shiny ESRB teen rating stamped on it, so no blood. Well, I guess their 13 to 17 years audience is quite high after all.

[paradamed]

They want a shiny ESRB teen rating stamped on it, so no blood. Well, I guess their 13 to 17 years audience is quite high after all.

Would having it as optional to turn it on change the ratings?

[DavidtheDuke]

Would having it as optional to turn it on change the ratings?

If it's included in the game at launch or for free it has to be included in the official ratings, only having paid DLC gets around that AFAIK

[Frost-Byte]

If it's included in the game at launch or for free it has to be included in the official ratings, only having paid DLC gets around that AFAIK

Here's an idea;

Have it be a free DLC that has an age lock and credential information (even though its free, so if its a kid his/her parents have to approve) and then a confirmation email (that is not forewarned) that you are older than 18 or whatever.

If Australia and Germany/other countries go crazy over it, then on launch charge 50 ing cents for it and say "Sorry guys we have too"

Instead of 3$ a month after launch while CA cheekily says "LOL we have to charge for it, so buy it for 5$ this time" (my prediction). Why include it when idk 100k people would buy it for 3 dollars, extra profit for cutting content. Since Rome 2 they've been trying to raise the prices, first from Shogun 2 to Rome 2 at 1--->3$ then with attila at first it was priced at 8 DOLLARS. Then people noticed and moaned before announced, then back to 3$. Warhammer is all about gore and with the complexity of the animations and what they could potentially offer, with people being bitten in half and what not, what is stopping them from saying "Oh we are raising the price because of all the value (manically laughing)"
This is exactly the modern triple A that is beginning to happen and needs to be quickly ended, or else all games will end up being a platform to pay 2-3 times as much money for all the content developed pre-launch. And Paradox isn't even innocent of this, even though people say there DLC is "Varied and optional" selling sprites, crappy sprites too, for money along with pictures and portraits people could upload for free on the internet is a disgusting practice. I consider games to be services (at least ones with multiplayer) and not the other way around, they serve me because I pay them money. Charging me for blood is not serving me, it's like taking the toppings off a pizza I payed for and charging extra...

And unless CA comes out and says "(insert country) will not allow us to sell the game if we don't charge approximately 3$ for blood DLC. Mass Death, men being eaten alive and dying by vomited acid, men by bitten by carnivorous giants, humans dwarves and monsters alike mauled by eagle and lion like animals, mass graves etc. is ok for kids but the line is drawn at red bodily liquid!" then this is purely an awful business decision to cut content and keep a T-rating (when it could be so easily dodged!)

edit; I'm afraid Warhammer DLC is going to be very petty and even more money-grubbing. I expect it to be more expensive and have less value. I expect cosmetic packs to add more variety or change the cosmetics of units, like a pink halberdiers pack. I expect unit packs, that just re-use assets. I expect mini-campaigns, with copy-n-paste unit assets thrown around. Hell I wouldn't even be surprised if Chaos or Brettonia are a Pre-order race, that costs more than 8$ on launch to play if you didn't pre-order. Remember how expensive the tabletop is (was)...

/end of rant

[korsakoff]

If it's included in the game at launch or for free it has to be included in the official ratings, only having paid DLC gets around that AFAIK

It's sad, Dawn of War has some brutal death animations for hand to hand fighting. I expect this kind of stuff for a Warhammer game...bleh

[DavidtheDuke]

Here's an idea;

Have it be a free DLC that has an age lock and credential information (even though its free, so if its a kid his/her parents have to approve) and then a confirmation email (that is not forewarned) that you are older than 18 or whatever.

If Australia and Germany/other countries go crazy over it, then on launch charge 50 ing cents for it and say "Sorry guys we have too"

Instead of 3$ a month after launch while CA cheekily says "LOL we have to charge for it, so buy it for 5$ this time" (my prediction). Why include it when idk 100k people would buy it for 3 dollars, extra profit for cutting content. Since Rome 2 they've been trying to raise the prices, first from Shogun 2 to Rome 2 at 1--->3$ then with attila at first it was priced at 8 DOLLARS. Then people noticed and moaned before announced, then back to 3$. Warhammer is all about gore and with the complexity of the animations and what they could potentially offer, with people being bitten in half and what not, what is stopping them from saying "Oh we are raising the price because of all the value (manically laughing)"
This is exactly the modern triple A that is beginning to happen and needs to be quickly ended, or else all games will end up being a platform to pay 2-3 times as much money for all the content developed pre-launch. And Paradox isn't even innocent of this, even though people say there DLC is "Varied and optional" selling sprites, crappy sprites too, for money along with pictures and portraits people could upload for free on the internet is a disgusting practice. I consider games to be services (at least ones with multiplayer) and not the other way around, they serve me because I pay them money. Charging me for blood is not serving me, it's like taking the toppings off a pizza I payed for and charging extra...

And unless CA comes out and says "(insert country) will not allow us to sell the game if we don't charge approximately 3$ for blood DLC. Mass Death, men being eaten alive and dying by vomited acid, men by bitten by carnivorous giants, humans dwarves and monsters alike mauled by eagle and lion like animals, mass graves etc. is ok for kids but the line is drawn at red bodily liquid!" then this is purely an awful business decision to cut content and keep a T-rating (when it could be so easily dodged!)

edit; I'm afraid Warhammer DLC is going to be very petty and even more money-grubbing. I expect it to be more expensive and have less value. I expect cosmetic packs to add more variety or change the cosmetics of units, like a pink halberdiers pack. I expect unit packs, that just re-use assets. I expect mini-campaigns, with copy-n-paste unit assets thrown around. Hell I wouldn't even be surprised if Chaos or Brettonia are a Pre-order race, that costs more than 8$ on launch to play if you didn't pre-order. Remember how expensive the tabletop is (was)...

/end of rant

Pretty much. At least this time it'll be a different universe and things might get interesting again.

And really, I thinkt he game if it works decently is worth alot more than $60 anyway. SEGA is not going to let the chance of a $3-5 DLC get away from them especailly when they know the entire community will immediately buy it. It'd be nice if they only charged 50 cent, but that's just not going to happen for a AAA franchise-licensed title like this with corporations in different directions all wanting a piece of the royalty pie.

It's sad, Dawn of War has some brutal death animations for hand to hand fighting. I expect this kind of stuff for a Warhammer game...bleh

They're making the game and animations with blood in mind, don't worry. You'll just have pay $3-5 more to get it because of a semi-good excuse to charge that kind of money for basically special effects every other game has.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Yeah, with the other games I guess it mildly made sense, but Warhammer is a bloody, gore-filled universe of death and destruction. Seems kind of odd to shoot for a Teen rating.

[panzerschreck]

yes to a blood dlc but better than the previous ones:
-more animations.
-more beheading, leg or arm cut or types of cut.
-I don't want soldiers covered of blood (with the other dlc after a while, you don't see any uniforms, everybody is covered with blood, not realistic).
-The possibility to see the difference between a soldier that has been hurt and someone who has just some blood from the fight on him.
-scrashing animations for giants, trolls,chariots, with corpses mutilated by them.
-burnt corpses after a burning ball for example or injuries by the acid of trolls.
-with canon balls or balista, I mean projectiles that cross ranks, there need to be special animations too, the canon ball that cross several men mutilating them for example.
-big heroes like grimgor should have special blood animations like a man cut in two half by his axe for example.

[Evan MF]

I think it is acceptable for the gore to be sold as a separate DLC considering the ESRB rating and CA wanting to maximise their sales to a wider audience. As long as it's not more than a dollar or two it's acceptable in my opinion.

I think it could warrant a higher cost if, as others have mentioned, it includes a lot more than just cranberry juice and that we get proper dismemberment and beheadings.

It would also be cool for the gore pack to include an 'environmental ware' pack which would include mud/dirt/soot/burns/sandiness/snow/wetness effects on the unit models. For too long have they looked to polished and clean in battle, to the extent that it detaches them from the scenery way to much. I believe Medieval 2 was the only Total War to ever have 'dirt effects' on the models, shame it has never been visited since.

[Red Dox]

@Topic: I would love some blood and sync kill animations. Seeing the giant & arachnarok eat people was the right way. First thing that came in mind, was with the puking trolls. If at some point enemies would "dissolve" in the acid (Mortal Kombat style) that would be really cool.

Dawn of War had plenty of normal sync kills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiU2N03Rzs
True, without big regiments it is easier to do them but at least heroes & giant things should get sync kills in Total War against each other. For example like these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn1MqVHkwBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKHsj5y8UL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv0UE6kdP_0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl98f192uug

If Australia and Germany/other countries go crazy over it, then on launch charge 50 ing cents for it and say "Sorry guys we have too"

At least the bar for fantasy violence has lowered in germany this year. Last month Mortal Kombat X, probably the most violent and detailed game out there atm, was rated USK18 and not indexed like its predecesors. So it can be selled without problems and is not censored in any way.

For better understanding @non germans a short example
Mortal Kombat 9 --> Indexed (No open selling in germany; no advertising)
Warhammer 40kawn of War 1+2 --> USk 16 [PEGI 16]
Total War Attila --> USk 12 [PEGI 16; PEGI 18 for B&B DLC]
Starcraft 2 --> USK 12 [PEGI 16]
Warhammer 40k:Space Marine --> USK 18 [PEGI 18]
Mortal Kombat X --> USK 18 [PEGI 18]
Dying Light --> Indexed [PEGI 18]

Even if we get hardcore sync kill animations and blood in Warhammer Fantasy battles, I do not see a problem in germany regarding censoring or index listing for this game (because fantasy RTS, not "realistic" FPS and no WWII nazi symbols overall). Since we have no problem with nudity and breasts, we could also get the good old slaanesh demons showing some tits and still have a lower outrage then the UK or USA

-----Red Dox

[BalrogOfMorgoth]

- "Blood for the blood god"!
- You have to pay for the blood

Neat. Plus I love how Grimgor's axe has blood on it, but the game doesn't.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's a load of crap to defend CA doing this, it's a damned Warhammer game.

[Begather]

@Topic: I would love some blood and sync kill animations. Seeing the giant & arachnarok eat people was the right way. First thing that came in mind, was with the puking trolls. If at some point enemies would "dissolve" in the acid (Mortal Kombat style) that would be really cool.

Dawn of War had plenty of normal sync kills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiU2N03Rzs
True, without big regiments it is easier to do them but at least heroes & giant things should get sync kills in Total War against each other. For example like these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn1MqVHkwBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKHsj5y8UL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv0UE6kdP_0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl98f192uug


At least the bar for fantasy violence has lowered in germany this year. Last month Mortal Kombat X, probably the most violent and detailed game out there atm, was rated USK18 and not indexed like its predecesors. So it can be selled without problems and is not censored in any way.

For better understanding @non germans a short example
Mortal Kombat 9 --> Indexed (No open selling in germany; no advertising)
Warhammer 40kawn of War 1+2 --> USk 16 [PEGI 16]
Total War Attila --> USk 12 [PEGI 16; PEGI 18 for B&B DLC]
Starcraft 2 --> USK 12 [PEGI 16]
Warhammer 40k:Space Marine --> USK 18 [PEGI 18]
Mortal Kombat X --> USK 18 [PEGI 18]
Dying Light --> Indexed [PEGI 18]

Even if we get hardcore sync kill animations and blood in Warhammer Fantasy battles, I do not see a problem in germany regarding censoring or index listing for this game (because fantasy RTS, not "realistic" FPS and no WWII nazi symbols overall). Since we have no problem with nudity and breasts, we could also get the good old slaanesh demons showing some tits and still have a lower outrage then the UK or USA

-----Red Dox

All of these videos are very helpful and interesting. I have bookmarked the video links and will surely see it later.

[Sharpe]

Seems kind of odd to shoot for a Teen rating.

Legalizes the purchase of thousands more potential buyers.

[Greve Af Göteborg]

Legalizes the purchase of thousands more potential buyers.

Wouln't a mature rating attract more buyers than the select few teenagers with very strict parents?
Most teenagers can get 18 rated games anyway.
Warhammer with all the blood and gore can be very powerful advertisement.

[Sharpe]

Wouln't a mature rating attract more buyers than the select few teenagers with very strict parents?
Most teenagers can get 18 rated games anyway.
Warhammer with all the blood and gore can be very powerful advertisement.

Agreed. But for all intents and purposes under 18s cannot "get mature games" and so to give the game a mature rating would basically say we are no longer designing our game for younger players. But let's face a huge amount of their fanbase is probably 10-17 years old and so cutting them out of buyer legitimacy would be a slight. I know I was 10 when I got my first TW game in Medieval 1. Kids love knights and Romans and Greeks etc, I did.

Obviously these kids would be able to get the games through their parents, hell I was playing Mortal Kombat in the 90s, but it's a can of worms just not worth opening. The blood pack DLC is a good compromise, evem better if it was a penny.

[Costin_Razvan]

but it's a can of worms just not worth opening.

Age rating is not a ban on kids buying games, it's a RECOMMENDATION system, so yes a kid can go and buy a game like this in most countries.

Only exception is the UK where selling games to kids that are younger is bad, but seriously Total War Games are rated PG 16, so anyone younger then that would still have to rely on parents to buy them.

For 2 ing years difference of a PG rating we are saddled with this crap. Stop trying to defend CA being greedy.