Jessica Jones (2nd Netflix Marvel series)

[maxi90]

She'd probably have a hard time against any of the avengers. Shes a bit more durable than a normal human but dont really have any skill to back up her strength and relies on just being able to overpower people.

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Hey she held her own against Luke Cage. That´s got to count for somethin

Anyway, like I said she is at her best when using her brain to get out of a tight spot, not her fists. Just like any good detective. There will be plenty of muscle to go around in the Defenders crossover as it is.

[Knight of Heaven]

I dont like to compare powers, of versus someone else, because it mostly depends on the plot. It could only took a moment for jessica to cought Tony Stark without his armor, in a party or drunk. Pretty easy thing to do hence both like to drink. And tony couldnt do a thing without his armor. And then goes the theory into the drain.

It depends on the plot. Always.

I hate fake martial arts. There's tons of talented students. If you ever watched the epic Bonaire-Griffin UFC slugfest, I'd rather see that intensity versus wirework. It's a battle of bloody Titans, not perfectly coiffed dancers and posers.

Im pretty much the oposite, well with some limits i guess. Too fake, and its too bad. But if its done in some taste, like Hero, or crouching tiger, i prefer it then a more realistic aproach. Specialy when its with real martial artists, wich are terrible actors, or tend to be.
Cant stand UFCs or MMA stuff, or boxing, it bores me to death.

[Påsan]

I think Martial arts are often handled poorly in media, and especially in comics. In that they treat it as some kind of superpower which cant be matched with other fighting systems that aren't "martial arts" And I cant frikkin stand flying tiger jumping dragon or similar asian movies.

So you get stuff where a 50kg girl beats up five soldiers because she knows some asian ritualized fighting patters and the soldiers don't. Which is dumb and it bothers me.

Case in point, according to marvels database Wilson Fisk is rated a better fighter than Thor because he's really good at sumo wrestling and judo.

[Knight of Heaven]

Case in point, according to marvels database Wilson Fisk is rated a better fighter than Thor because he's really good at sumo wrestling and judo.

Any martial art makes you a better fighter... , whataver it is eastern or western.

Is Thor a martial artist? or a better fighter then fisk? i dont know possibly it isnt, but then again he is a god, he doesnt need to be.
Im certain he mastered the art of using his hammer though, wich is a magical weapon....
Think if Thor didnt had any powers? and was a normal human, was he be able to defeat Fisk? then you would know who is a better fighter.

btw im wondering what is your other fighting systems you are talking about? western fighting systems, are also martial arts btw.

[RubiconDecision]

This is hysterical. I get legitimate posts cut that discuss Aikido in an episode, but wild tangents on Thor and martial arts in general are fine.

Unrealistic martial arts in media harms martial arts. Period. In ten minutes, in a true fight, a few mistakes costs the skirmish and both are exhausted. Superhero media could benefit from realism. It communicates "heart and guts" and mortality.

So far the show is at least 7.5 and I'm on S01E03. The martial arts are lackluster but that's okay.

minor cursing mostly slurred
...

I'd encourage comic book fans to look at Luke Cage's history. It arose out of the blaxploitation early 70s era. It was very generic and manufactured to meet a niche audience who were supporting Shaft and Superfly and even Bruce Lee films like Enter the Dragon (Williams played by Jim Kelly). This was one rationale for combining Iron Fist with Luke Cage: Hero for Hire.

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This iteration of a calm thoughtful powerful African-American is a very fine evolution and superb transition from mediocre origins.

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Both Black Panther and the Falcon were very different, better written, and in unique ways, and frankly were admirable by comparison. Black Panther was and is a very fine attempt to create an excellent role model for anyone. It transcended racial lines.

[Gaidin]

Any martial art makes you a better fighter... , whataver it is eastern or western.

Is Thor a martial artist? or a better fighter then fisk? i dont know possibly it isnt, but then again he is a god, he doesnt need to be.
Im certain he mastered the art of using his hammer though, wich is a magical weapon....
Think if Thor didnt had any powers? and was a normal human, was he be able to defeat Fisk? then you would know who is a better fighter.

btw im wondering what is your other fighting systems you are talking about? western fighting systems, are also martial arts btw.

Thor is a soldier. He's a trained fighter, but not in our sense. He was trained by the Marvel Norse. Which have their own methods, given their high magic and high technology. They have no reason to fight on our level Which hell if Rubicon will like at all. Because RESPECT MAI MARTIAL ARTS!

[RubiconDecision]

Thor is a soldier. He's a trained fighter, but not in our sense. He was trained by the Marvel Norse. Which have their own methods, given their high magic and high technology. They have no reason to fight on our level Which hell if Rubicon will like at all. Because RESPECT MAI MARTIAL ARTS!

Thor is a Norse Battle god, possibly their most powerful physically, but unable to defeat Wotan(Odin) or Hel(Death).

He is among the most powerful beings in the Marvel universe. Of course the Vikings had martial arts.

Thor would/should clobber most everyone, but that would be boring.

I place no icons on the martial arts. Rarely there are a handful of kensai like Musashi or Ueshiba. The film industry should stop making garbage like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon which once was mocked as inferior Chinese film drek for Kung Fu theatre as children's entertainment.

[Gaidin]

I place no icons on the martial arts. Rarely there are a handful of kensai like Musashi or Ueshiba.

You harp every time you think martial arts gets disrespected. And this is coming from someone who's watching you whose profession gets gutted it appears on the screen, large or small. Don't try to dodge the fact that you're placing that culture on a pedestal.

[RubiconDecision]

You harp every time you think martial arts gets disrespected. And this is coming from someone who's watching you whose profession gets gutted it appears on the screen, large or small. Don't try to dodge the fact that you're placing that culture on a pedestal.

Ridiculous. I like about 15 chambara films and 5 karate films out of Hundreds of awful pablum.

There are maybe 10 honorable samurai out of 100,000 maniacal ones.

Respect the Budo(Art).Respect the devoted student. But they're just human beings.

[Påsan]

Any martial art makes you a better fighter... , whataver it is eastern or western.

Martial Arts are just codified fighting systems. There is no innate superiority in using traditional methods as opposed to whatever works out of an individuals own experience. Martial Arts are just a training pattern. The sad reality is that a experienced hooligan fighter could very well be a better fighter than a black belt karate/whatever practitioner.

Is Thor a martial artist? or a better fighter then fisk? i dont know possibly it isnt, but then again he is a god, he doesnt need to be.
Im certain he mastered the art of using his hammer though, wich is a magical weapon....
Think if Thor didnt had any powers? and was a normal human, was he be able to defeat Fisk? then you would know who is a better fighter.

Is not Thor a millenia old warrior from a warrior society and an actual god of war? While Fisk is a pretty strong 40/50 something fat guy?

btw im wondering what is your other fighting systems you are talking about? western fighting systems, are also martial arts btw.

What I'm talking about is that learning martial arts is not necessary to become good at fighting. You'll eventually learn what works and what do not work through experience. Case in point, Thor vs Fisk.

[RubiconDecision]

Martial art schools turn out a lot of posers. In fact, some schools used to be incredibly difficult on purpose because black belts became meaningless. Part of the history of Gracie Jujitsu was intense open combat challenges for decades versus passive near worthless students.

Then Krav Maga came along setting the bar extremely high.

Red Belt seeks to chronicle that return to combat roots.

The dirty field combat of a brawler can work because they're psychopaths who are not restricted by a moral framework. I'd bet in history, most combat veterans up into the end of the medieval period were also like that as well.

That level of viciousness breaks the comic code however, the one Rorschach gleefully ignores in The Watchmen.

We should expect more of that in anti-hero graphic novels for adults.

[The Despondent Mind]

I loved the show, but know I get the feeling it will get neutered not just if they somehow implement into the movies universe but with Daredevil to, I can already imagine Daredevil lecturing J.J. and making a big drama, dear god he seems so unbearable now.

[RubiconDecision]

I'd rate episodes 1-6 from 7.5-7.8
In S01E07 the writing and or direction was suddenly off-the-mark, characters doing strange things, and maybe 7.0.

Due to the subject matter, and since it's the first season, there's not enough range for Jessica. In the 7-8 episodes Ms. Ritter played as Jane on Breaking Bad, viewers saw the enormous range of the way we act when alone, the front we put on while dating, the child that comes out to please disappointed parents, the seducer, the hungry wanting love, the addicted, etc. Krystin Ritter is remarkable but needs the writing and situations to show that.

Some of that comes out during the post-coitus pillow talk from Ritter and surprisingly well done by Mike Colter who gives a superb nuanced performance even capturing the moments of shyness after making love the first time.Obviously they're hoping to get lots of 16-45 year old women as viewers.

Imagine you're a superhero. You hide everything. You can't be yourself or else harm your lover. Finally in your 30s, you can allow part of that to escape. It's a great scene that lesser actors would have waved off as just another sex scene.

I wasn't looking forward to Luke Cage, now I am as Colter has a serious acting future, not just as an action star.
...
Matt Murdock is a very complicated character, probably the first handicapped character in comics history, and during teen years and orphaned, but results in an assertive confident man mentored by the distant Stick, and yet becomes his own spiritual and moral person. Even facing the daily rigors of Hell's Kitchen and the complex sociopath Fisk. This is why Afleck was such a dismal failure as Daredevil, while Cox was magnificent. Afleck could never play such a layered character. Charlie Cox does so with ease, not at all a surprise since he proved his ability in Boardwalk Empire.

[Knight of Heaven]

Martial Arts are just codified fighting systems. There is no innate superiority in using traditional methods as opposed to whatever works out of an individuals own experience. Martial Arts are just a training pattern. The sad reality is that a experienced hooligan fighter could very well be a better fighter than a black belt karate/whatever practitioner.



Is not Thor a millenia old warrior from a warrior society and an actual god of war? While Fisk is a pretty strong 40/50 something fat guy?



What I'm talking about is that learning martial arts is not necessary to become good at fighting. You'll eventually learn what works and what do not work through experience. Case in point, Thor vs Fisk.

Well as i said, im not very keen , on versus series because of its futility, it depends on the plot line, what the authors want from the stories. So i wont touch thor vs fisk with 10 foot pole, like i wouldnt want to touch on the iron man vs jessica jones.
( think about Palpatine versus vader, every fan boy claims Palpatine was better at everything, and that is canon, yet the fact remains, Vader killed Sidious with one harm...)
Obviously Thor is trained in whataver he is trained we dont know for sure ( they never go in deepth about that, because there isnt realy a need). he is magical being, even without his magical powers, he still a hero and a force to be recon with, and one of the most powerfull beings in the marvel universe.
without his powers he is still vulnerable regardless of training, and was taken out by Coulson security for instance, or by a team of nurses. ( if we consider the movies)
In that circunstances wouldnt fisk be a better fighter? In theory? probably. it depends, on the plot, so it is irrelevant.

And what are the traditional methods to you?
Kung fu, karate, Aikido, or Sumo and such are traditional methods as well just from another part of the world.

The way i see it, it is all due to training, practise and experience that would make you a better fighter, whataver it is you chose to train, you can even train mulptiple fighting systems ( see Daredevil, or Batman and several martial artists, and fictional characters), its all about the routine and the fighting extint that comes with, more then anything else.

It doesnt matter if you have black belt, it does matter if you train regulary, and are in such brawls and fights or battles regulary. there is no way to deny that having knowledge of a fighting system, and be routined in it, at the instint base level, it would always be an advantage. Even it it doesnt guarantee victory first hand. It all depends on the circunstance.

[RubiconDecision]

S01E01-6 7.5-7.8
S01E07-9 7.0
S01E10-13 7.5

A good first season, with writing mostly on-the-mark, occasionally strains credibility with supersoldiers, excellent principle performances but odd ancillary unnecessary characters that negatively affect pacing. The show needs to train the actors how to authentically fight, needs a better fight coordinator, and a better soundtrack. It has great diverse camera work. The art design was often exemplary as was the sound editing.

Both Ritter and Colter gave fine performances but Ritter needs variance instead of relying on being acerbic. They have genuine chemistry which cannot be faked. The times she most shined was showing her true face, something which takes time to slowly reveal, but there were missed quiet closing moments that the writers could have accomplished her vulnerable conflicted inner life. That is what makes her character so human and likable. She should be coy, breakdown, suddenly be steely, burst into infectious laughter, etc.

Erin Moriarty did very well given it's her first adult role and a rough part with few lines to do exposition.

Rachel Taylor turned in a nuanced creative performance even occasionally believable martial arts. I expect her to continue to do well.

I would imagine the shooting schedule was tight with minimal takes which easily deserves praise for the entire cast and crew.

Crossovers will greatly enhance the show and I'm optimistic that Luke Cage will be a quality show with broad-based appeal.

[Påsan]

Kung fu, karate, Aikido, or Sumo and such are traditional methods as well just from another part of the world.

The way i see it, it is all due to training, practise and experience that would make you a better fighter, whataver it is you chose to train, you can even train mulptiple fighting systems ( see Daredevil, or Batman and several martial artists, and fictional characters), its all about the routine and the fighting extint that comes with, more then anything else.

It doesnt matter if you have black belt, it does matter if you train regulary, and are in such brawls and fights or battles regulary. there is no way to deny that having knowledge of a fighting system, and be routined in it, at the instint base level, it would always be an advantage. Even it it doesnt guarantee victory first hand. It all depends on the circunstance.

So basically we agree. Martial art is not superior to simply being good at fighting to the degree comics and various stupid fighting movies portray. They are an alternative which offer a tried and true way to become effective at combat. (Or not depending on the real applicability of the martial art) Which is probably why actual MMA fighters look like fighters and not like silly flipping mass media martial artists.

Always nice to find common ground.

Speaking of which, Iron Fist which is the next one up after Luke Cage in th Netflix series is pretty much this debate personified, right?

[RubiconDecision]

The martial arts are attempts to create muscle memory, enhance dexterity, speed, strength, and conquer innate flawed reaction. Budo is supposed to be practical or it's worthless. Idiotic wirework (like Into the Badlands) would ruin Jessica Jones.

Iron Fist came about during the early 70s and there was nearly nothing written about Chi or Ki. Marvel turned that into a superpower.

Plunging his fists into the molten heart of the dragon Shou-Lao the Undying infused the dragon's superhuman energy into Rand; this along with training by Lei Kung the Thunderer gave Rand the power of the Iron Fist, allowing him to summon and focus his chi (or natural energy) and enhance his natural abilities to extraordinary levels. His strength, speed, stamina, durability, agility, reflexes and senses can all be greatly intensified.
He is able to concentrate his body's natural energies into his hand, manifesting as a supernatural glow around his clenched fist. So concentrated, this "iron fist" can strike with superhuman hardness and impact, while his hand becomes impervious to pain and injury. However, the feat of summoning the power required leaves Rand physically and mentally drained, unable to repeat the act for a time, as long as even an entire day in certain instances.^{[citation needed]}
He can also focus chi energy inward to heal himself or outward to heal others of injury, as well as telepathically fuse his consciousness with another person.^[32]
Rand is a master of all of K'un Lun's martial arts as well as various fighting styles from Earth.

[maxi90]

Question to anyone who has read the comics: How good is the show as an adaptation? Did it follow the source material somewhat faithfully, or did they just take some general conepts and ran with it?

[Gaidin]

Question to anyone who has read the comics: How good is the show as an adaptation? Did it follow the source material somewhat faithfully, or did they just take some general conepts and ran with it?

Actually think it took the comics and upped the game. Mostly because it gave Kilgrave the room of a main character, so they modified him as such. It was great. For Jessica, she fit her role in her MAX print very well, but it had its own story. Mostly due to the characters used and not used. The writers did a very good job. Personally, I'd like to see them switch a few characters out or maybe see Cap do the appropriate cameo and do some of the stories from the MAX print that don't involve Kilgrave. They were really good.

[RubiconDecision]

What the Flick's review of S01E01-S01E03 since people are binge watching it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Jessica Jones has been a character in 200 comic issues. Here's a breakdown of differences vs the Marvel Max Alias 01-28 issues.
http://www.slashfilm.com/jessica-jones-vs-alias/