Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 142

Thread: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

  1. #41

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Tbh the 6th of SA is often Peru or similar which is pretty bad.
    Bolivia and Venezuela aren't good either. They are always bottom 2.

  2. #42
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
    Patrician Citizen Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Heerlen, Limburg
    Posts
    13,693

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Giving South America 6,5 spots instead of 4,5 is more ridiculous than Europe having 13. I also don't see any clear qualitative superiority in say Peru/Venezuela/Bolivia compared to the Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Serbia, Wales and the like. I do think Africa should get more spots and possibly Asia but the level of most Asian teams is too low at the moment so it's not much of a loss yet. I presume there's going to be an expansion of the number of teams participating though, before they go about relocating spots.

    Having some more play-off spots might be a solution, have the winners of the European play-offs face off against extra spots from other confederations perhaps.

  3. #43
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hy Brazil
    Posts
    1,997

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Right now there are 6 good teams in South America who are really World Cup material: Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Colombia and Ecuador. The other 4 are not bad, but rather medium when put on an international context. I really think teams like Serbia and Slovenia would lose to a full Venezuela with all its good players (and to Bolivia if the match was in La Paz hehe). Peru is one tier above these two, and so is Paraguay. They wouldn't do so bad in the World Cup in my opinion (Paraguay did good in 2010), and with more spots they might participate in it more often. Their football is certainly more appealing to me than the bureaucratic Switzerland or the Greek 10-0-0.

    Asian teams are in general pretty bad and their qualifiers are horrible. Only the CONCACAF one is worse. I like your playoff idea though, seems fair.
    Last edited by Macunaíma; November 16, 2016 at 12:12 AM.


  4. #44

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    If you consider the last three World Cups; then something interesting develops

    South America has performed the best. Out of total of 15 spots, 13 Teams has advanced to the Round of 16.
    Europe and CONCACAF have similar results. having 22 of 40 and 6 of 11 advancing to the Round of 16.
    By far the two worse performers are Africa and Asia; a dismal 4 of 14 and 3 of 13 reaching the Round of 16.
    It should be noted that Africa hosted the World Cup in 2010. South Africa becoming the first nation to fail to advance to the Round of 16.

    Everyone talk as if Africa is a rising football power, but in reality and at the World Cup this has not proven to be true. Asia despite adding Australia has not performed any better. In 2014 all four of Asia's qualifying team fail to advance. Africa in 2010 (hosted in Africa) had 6 in which only Ghana advance.

    Europe always advances 6 teams, but in 2006 they advanced 10/14. Their best. However, South America still rose above having 3/4 teams advancing.

    It is a fair argument that South America could have more spots. I am not sure it should be at the expense of Europe. Europe and South America strength is better gauged after the Round of 16 where both federations performs higher than the other regions who most teams main goal is to advance to the Round of 16.

    This being said, FIFA is committed to "spreading" the appeal of the game by having as diverse of a field as possible on the "World stage" This promotes football in those regions.

    I think people have a high opinion of Asia and especially Africa, because individually, players from those regions perform well in top leagues. However, many of those players play on teams where the quality of talent is far lower than the clubs they play for.

    Another factor is African sides "under perform" in the World Cup. However, I am not sure if they are under performing or people are artificially raising their expectation due to the performance of certain players in top leagues.

    This was my breakdown.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	World Cup Break Down.pdf 
Views:	5 
Size:	346.3 KB 
ID:	341766

  5. #45
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hy Brazil
    Posts
    1,997

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    The thing with African teams is that they have a lot of individual talents but have a low technical and tactical level. They have the resources but lack a good management of them. You don't need a team full of stars to pass the group stage in the WC, you just need tactical consistency. A lot of mediocre European and Asian (sometimes even Central American, look at Costa Rica in 2014) teams have proved this already.
    Last edited by Macunaíma; November 16, 2016 at 05:03 PM.


  6. #46
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    6,741

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Macunaíma View Post
    The thing with African teams is that they have a lot of individual talents but have a low technical and tactical level. They have the resources but lack a good management of them. You don't need a team full of stars to pass the group stage in the WC, you just need tactical consistency. A lot of mediocre European and Asian teams have proved this already.
    Look at a list of the 279 best players in the World best players in the world from the Guardian (the article). Consider how few of them are African and also that they need to be divided between the 54 different recognized states on the continent. Even the best African teams tend to only have 2-3 top quality players and even with better management most countries would struggle as they lack the quality necessary to compete with the best South American and European teams.

    So I think PikeStance is right. We see a few top players and fail to realize that even top teams like the Ivory Coast tend to miss important pieces to form a team.

  7. #47
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hy Brazil
    Posts
    1,997

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Those lists are usually bs. Anyway, as I mentioned, there's plenty of examples of teams doing well in the World Cup without a single top quality player (as I edited in my last post, look at Costa Rica in 2014). I was talking about passing group stage, not being champion or something like that. Not really hard to do when you have solid management and tactics. Of course the players need to be at least somewhat competent in playing football, but then again, a lot of African teams have competent (even if not great) players.

    Edit: Man, that list was indeed bull.
    Last edited by Macunaíma; November 16, 2016 at 09:00 PM.


  8. #48

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    I lived in Africa for two years. I watched a lot of African football. African players have great individual skill, but they are not tactically sound, They tend to be more individualistic (paradoxically to their culture) and less team conscious. This is true even if they have a European or Latin American Coach. It is the opposite problem with many Asian teams. They tend to play strong collectively but lack selfish play. Living in Asia for the past 5 years, I can see that why. Plus, I do not think Asia has a strong enough talent to really challenge Asian teams. They tend to be overwhelmed at the World Cup. Concacaf teams, conversely, play a lot of Latin American teams, so they tend to developed a more sound play and a more determine ruggedness that heklps them perform better on the "World Stage." It is ashamed that too many people are quick to dismiss CONCACAF at the expense of overrated African and Asian team.

    Just an FYI,.. My Teams
    United States (Nationality)
    France (Heritage)
    China (My Wife)
    Ivory Coast (Lived there for two years and love the style of play)
    Colombia (Favorite Coach and I love the style of the play of the team I grew up with 80s to mid 90s)

  9. #49
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hy Brazil
    Posts
    1,997

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Well, I agree with you.

    Yet my opinion on the World Cup confederation spots remains the same.

    Also, I meant no offense by my comment about the CONCACAF qualifiers being horrible. I reckon there are currently 3 decent teams in the confederation: Mexico, United States and Costa Rica. Isn't it so? I guess that's what makes those matches uninteresting, since the final results are almost already known (being 3 the number of spots CONCACAF has). All that is left are some technically poor matches between small teams. Although I do enjoy watching amateurish football once in a while. It's fun when you get the taste of it.

    About OP's concern: the FIFA ranking is indeed stupid, and by consequence so is the drawing. But that shouldn't make a lot of difference on which teams get to qualify. Right now I'm more interested in the South American development: Brazil just rolled over its last six opponents and Argentina is in 6th, out of the Cup for now. It's just wonderful.
    Last edited by Macunaíma; November 16, 2016 at 09:51 PM.


  10. #50

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Well, Brazil had a tough start but now is doing really well. Argentina is struggling, though imo they have a much more talented team.

  11. #51

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Macunaíma View Post
    Well, I agree with you.

    Yet my opinion on the World Cup confederation spots remains the same.

    Also, I meant no offense by my comment about the CONCACAF qualifiers being horrible. I reckon there are currently 3 decent teams in the confederation: Mexico, United States and Costa Rica. Isn't it so? I guess that's what makes those matches uninteresting, since the final results are almost already known (being 3 the number of spots CONCACAF has). All that is left are some technically poor matches between small teams. Although I do enjoy watching amateurish football once in a while. It's fun when you get the taste of it.
    I was actually offended by the comment. CONCACAF is not a strong federation when compared to Europe and Latin America. Compared to Africa and Asia, CONCACAF top tier can compete. It is the second teir where there is a decidely less number of countries worthwhile.

    Tier 1 (as you said)
    Team virtually guaranteed to qualify, but may not finish in the top 2
    Mexico and United States.

    Tier 2
    No guarantee but the best of the group can certain beat the top Tier teams.
    Costa Rica
    Then a revolving door of the following; T & T, Jamaica, Honduras.

    Tier 3
    This group can frustrate tier 1 and possible upset tier 2, but ultimately fail to do much.
    Canada, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Haiti (new boys on the block)

    Tier 4 & 5
    The best of the group might be Cuba and St Vicent,...
    Cuba is developing, but probably a few years away from being consistent. StV&G plays well enough against minnows almost to the Hex.
    Tier 5 are minnows.

    Tier 1 and 2 generally get to the Hex, but Tier 3 teams can get there, but usually finish disappointingly.

    CONCACAF has a number of issues. There really isn't a lot of wealth to develop soccer and the domestic leagues are too small to be a good proving ground for development of talent. The Caribbean islands have a particularly difficult time because many nations are multiple island nations. On a positive note; political stability has been consistent and economic development iw taking place. We see this with the improve play of many small CA and Caribbean nations like Honduras, Jamaica and Haiti.

    I do not expect CONCACAF to have more than 3.5 The fourth team may win a playoff, but I do not expect them to show well in the World Cup. This could change, but not overnight.

    The only federation that has warranted more spots is Latin America. I do not expect FIFA to reduce Asia from 4. It is too large of a continent to have less than that. Africa, despite it's showing, is already tough to qualify from. Africa problem is that it has a lot of "above average" teams, so there is always 2 or 3 teams that could compete in the World Cup, which may explain (partially) why some feel Africa should have more despite the dismal showing in the WC.

  12. #52

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    USA and Mexico would benefit a lot from Concacaf merging with Conmebol.
    First, clubs would participate in a legit quality international tournament. Second they would regularly face upper tier national teams, thus get used to them.

    The US has money to invest, most of South America needs that.

    The only difficulty would be for players to suffer a season swap (playing in summer in the North means you take a flight and play in winter in the South) and very exhausting 20+ hours flights. Solve the logitics issue, create a pan-American federation and both would benefit. Otherwise Concacaf will risk being passed by East Asia in a decade or two. China is pouring immense resources in building a competitive league.

  13. #53
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hy Brazil
    Posts
    1,997

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    I don't think that is going to happen. All indicates that Mexican teams will be out of the next Libertadores, and I guess that shows what the current stance on "merging" is. South American clubs and federations also prefer that way, because of the problems you mentioned. The presence of Mexican clubs in Libertadores was always criticised.

    About Brazil and Argentina, I don't really think there's such a difference of talent. Messi shifts the balance, of course, but his teammates are not nearly as good as him, and some actually suck. Brazil has always had good players, but poorly managed. Tite fixed the team and brought some of the younger olympic champions, getting rid of some of the deadbeats who pulled the team down (David Luiz, Hulk and all the ). Bauza, on the other hand, did some bad calls with Argentina, hence they are in this situation. Hopefully for them the match against Colombia is the start of a tide turning. Putting Lucas Pratto as center forward instead of useless Higuain was certainly a very right decision.
    Last edited by Macunaíma; November 16, 2016 at 11:40 PM.


  14. #54

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    It's rather weird how many players underperform in the national team compared to leagues.

    You mention Messi but he really doesn't do that much of a difference. Higuain is terrific in Serie A but sucks dick in the national team.

    We'll see how Gabriel Jesus does when he moves to the other side of the Atlantic. Brazil lacked badly a striker in the last world cup.

  15. #55
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
    Patrician Citizen Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Heerlen, Limburg
    Posts
    13,693

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I was actually offended by the comment. CONCACAF is not a strong federation when compared to Europe and Latin America. Compared to Africa and Asia, CONCACAF top tier can compete. It is the second teir where there is a decidely less number of countries worthwhile.

    Tier 1 (as you said)
    Team virtually guaranteed to qualify, but may not finish in the top 2
    Mexico and United States.

    Tier 2
    No guarantee but the best of the group can certain beat the top Tier teams.
    Costa Rica
    Then a revolving door of the following; T & T, Jamaica, Honduras.

    Tier 3
    This group can frustrate tier 1 and possible upset tier 2, but ultimately fail to do much.
    Canada, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Haiti (new boys on the block)

    Tier 4 & 5
    The best of the group might be Cuba and St Vicent,...
    Cuba is developing, but probably a few years away from being consistent. StV&G plays well enough against minnows almost to the Hex.
    Tier 5 are minnows.

    Tier 1 and 2 generally get to the Hex, but Tier 3 teams can get there, but usually finish disappointingly.

    CONCACAF has a number of issues. There really isn't a lot of wealth to develop soccer and the domestic leagues are too small to be a good proving ground for development of talent. The Caribbean islands have a particularly difficult time because many nations are multiple island nations. On a positive note; political stability has been consistent and economic development iw taking place. We see this with the improve play of many small CA and Caribbean nations like Honduras, Jamaica and Haiti.

    I do not expect CONCACAF to have more than 3.5 The fourth team may win a playoff, but I do not expect them to show well in the World Cup. This could change, but not overnight.

    The only federation that has warranted more spots is Latin America. I do not expect FIFA to reduce Asia from 4. It is too large of a continent to have less than that. Africa, despite it's showing, is already tough to qualify from. Africa problem is that it has a lot of "above average" teams, so there is always 2 or 3 teams that could compete in the World Cup, which may explain (partially) why some feel Africa should have more despite the dismal showing in the WC.
    In your tier 4/5 Curacao is developing nicely as well, they're now focusing a lot on recruiting talented Antillian Dutch that are not going to make the dutch national team. There's quite a few playing in the Eredivisie, the problem for Curacao is that when they're young they hold off on playing for Curacao as they still might have a chance to make the dutch national team and the big talents almost always pick the Netherlands. Still, they'll get some good talents out of this, unlike Suriname which I think has a policy of not allowing players with a double nationality.

  16. #56
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hy Brazil
    Posts
    1,997

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    It's rather weird how many players underperform in the national team compared to leagues.

    You mention Messi but he really doesn't do that much of a difference. Higuain is terrific in Serie A but sucks dick in the national team.

    We'll see how Gabriel Jesus does when he moves to the other side of the Atlantic. Brazil lacked badly a striker in the last world cup.
    Did you watch the game? Messi literally won it for Argentina. And, honestly, Higuain being terrific in Serie A just shows how decadent the Italian league is nowadays. Has been better.

    About Gabriel Jesus, as long as he keeps scoring for us like he is, I don't care about his performance in Man City. I had to watch we go to the WC with Fred, so right now I'm pretty happy with what we have. Coutinho too is playing like he's possessed, both in Liverpool and in the national team. The way things are, I think if the Cup started tomorrow we'd actually be champions.
    Last edited by Macunaíma; November 17, 2016 at 09:53 AM.


  17. #57

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    I was talking about Messi in general when he plays for Argentina, not the last game.

  18. #58

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    10 good teams, around the same amount of Europe.
    Ill have to disagree with that notion.

    I was talking about Messi in general when he plays for Argentina, not the last game.
    i do think he does, but he isnt as relevant, as he is in Barcelona.

    To be honest is rather normal issue for most players anyway. But yeah i tend to agree with the notion.

    Funny enough for Portugal Cristiano has been crucial, and invaluable for a lot of years now, i mean, the saying was Ronaldo plus 10.
    But that changed slowly after Fernando Santos started to coach, and intruduced, new blood, and re-introduced some old experienced key players again like Carvalho, Quaresma and Tiago that were barred from national team, before.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; November 17, 2016 at 03:27 PM.

  19. #59
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hy Brazil
    Posts
    1,997

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Oh, ok. Yes, he hasn't been decisive in all matches he played for the national team, but, among his teammates, he's the more capable of being so (maybe the only one). Who else would do what he did yesterday?


  20. #60

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Macunaíma View Post
    Oh, ok. Yes, he hasn't been decisive in all matches he played for the national team, but, among his teammates, he's the more capable of being so (maybe the only one). Who else would do what he did yesterday?
    Hum i dont know Argentina has a lot of very solid, quality players. All arround.

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •