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Thread: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

  1. #21

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    But the point of friendlies is that they are tests and that even if you up, it doesn't matter.
    What's the point of counting games whose purpose is that they do not count?
    It doesn't make sense.

  2. #22
    Gatsby's Avatar Punctual Romantic
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Precisely, the point of friendlies is to experiment tactically or try new players - how are managers meant to be comfortable doing that when losing friendlies screws them over later when it comes to qualification draws?

    If there is something valuable to be gained from winning and serious consequences for a loss, then its not a friendly any more, is it?
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  3. #23
    Mausolos of Caria's Avatar Royal Satrap
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Their point is that they are played under friendly circumstances, not in a competition, but if they would not count at all for the World Ranking one could also simply put their U19s team, which isn't the point either, especially for a small team, which hosts a big team and hopes to see their stars play. Friendly games give less points to the ranking than qualifiers and qualifiers give less points than, for instance, World Cup game, so theoretically it all makes sense.

    One of the main problems is the rythm of competitions and that host nations don't have any competitive games for a long while. For example, the draw has potentially put Jamaica, Haiti, Costa Rica and Panama in the same group for the CONCACAF region, even though Haiti and Jamaica (from pot 3 and 4) both impressed at the Gold Cup, which only ended yesterday, and thus it hasn't counted for the ranking yet. At the same time Honduras were handed an easy group to finish 2nd behind Mexico, despite failure at the Gold Cup, which is just a bit stupid.
    "Pompeius, after having finished the war against Mithridates, when he went to call at the house of Poseidonios, the famous teacher of philosophy, forbade the lictor to knock at the door, as was the usual custom, and he, to whom both the eastern and the western world had yielded submission, ordered the fasces to be lowered before the door of science."

    Pliny the Elder, Naturalis Historia, 7, 112

  4. #24
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    Wales and Romania didn't even qualify for the World Cup. France was in quarter final. How does this make sense?
    France is low on the list because as host of the future Euro it hasn't played anything but friendlies, a lot of which it drew or lost. If you look back all Euro hosts dropped sharply during qualifiers because of a lack of competitive games. Once the tournament is over they'll bounce back to their old position (if they're as good as you claim) since they're the only team guaranteed to play in it. You can't have your pie and eat it.
    Previous qualifications are irrelevant, we are talking about 2015, not two years ago when the qualifiers for WC 14 ended, yet still games at the WC are counted in the rankings, so if Romania and Wales had qualified they would be even higher now.

    As an aside Romania would have qualified for the WC but for dodgy referring in the away play-off game against Greece.
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; July 28, 2015 at 04:42 PM.
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  5. #25
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Mausolos of Caria View Post
    You can say what you want about the ranking, but everyone knew beforehand that the July ranking would determine the pots for the draw, so the last games before the summer were a good chance to improve your ranking. Ireland drew with England and Scotland, which isn't bad per se, but had they won both games they would have certainly been in pot 3. Had Scotland won at Dublin, they would have been in pot 2, and had Belgium beaten Wales, Wales would have only been in pot 2 as well. Italy lost to Portugal in a friendly and only drew twice in the qualifiers this year- taking into account that they did not survive their group at the World Cup it's logical that they slipped into pot 2. Finally France lost to Belgium and to Albania, and they have the disadvantage of being hosts, thus getting less points from their group games, which are essentially friendlies.
    Of course the list could be improved, but if you look at the results, everyone only get themselves to blame for the pots they are into, since it was known before the most recent games. Now looking at the groups, group A will certainly be a challenge for all sides involved and the chances for Sweden to qualify are very little. But in general it's very difficult to predict the groups now. Let's look at group F: On current form, Slovakia could easily challenge England for 1st, but it's more than a year until the WC qualifiers start and many teams will play at the Euro before that. By then, Slovakia might be mediocre again, and Scotland's fortunes could change as well- for the better or the worse remains to be seen. And who knows if England has slid into another crisis by September 2016... so let's just wait and see.
    This doesn't make any sense. "Oh you drew with England in a friendly match? Well tough luck, you're in pot 4 now losers!"

    This seeding system si completely broken. Friendly matches are meant to be chance for coaches to experiment with tactics and try new players, not a mini turnament which determines the seeding for the upcoming qualifications. Ireland is in the same pot as Faroe Islands and you are defending the system?

  6. #26
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    There's two things that this draw thought me that I didn't realise before (and may be slightly out of context).

    Austria are higher seeded than Serbia and much higher ranked. When did that happen?

    Greece and Norway have finally gone down in seeding. About bloody time.


  7. #27

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by ccllnply View Post
    There's two things that this draw thought me that I didn't realise before (and may be slightly out of context).

    Austria are higher seeded than Serbia and much higher ranked. When did that happen?
    Serbia already missed the qualification for the European Championship in France next year (because of that infamous match against the Albanian team, they currently have "-2 points"). Austria on the other hand, is 1st in group G with 16 points. So it's not overly surprising that Austria is currently on place 15th in the FIFA-worldranking and Serbia only on place 43.

  8. #28
    Mausolos of Caria's Avatar Royal Satrap
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    This doesn't make any sense. "Oh you drew with England in a friendly match? Well tough luck, you're in pot 4 now losers!"

    This seeding system si completely broken. Friendly matches are meant to be chance for coaches to experiment with tactics and try new players, not a mini turnament which determines the seeding for the upcoming qualifications. Ireland is in the same pot as Faroe Islands and you are defending the system?
    I have never said I like the system, I am merely saying it's not like the news how it works and that it affects the World Cup qualifiers groups came out of the blue. And if it came as a surprise for coaches or players, then that's really their own fault. Also, Ireland is 22 places above the Faroes, they are just unlucky that not many European teams are lower than them. Once again- the system could be improved a lot, but it's been in place for years and to blame the system for the pot you are in is nothing else than an excuse for the team's performance.
    "Pompeius, after having finished the war against Mithridates, when he went to call at the house of Poseidonios, the famous teacher of philosophy, forbade the lictor to knock at the door, as was the usual custom, and he, to whom both the eastern and the western world had yielded submission, ordered the fasces to be lowered before the door of science."

    Pliny the Elder, Naturalis Historia, 7, 112

  9. #29

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Recent Qualification-match between Japan and the United Arabian Emirates (with an Arabian referee from Qatar)


  10. #30

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Rofl. I can only imagine how bad the World Cup is going to be. This is all the fault of Western governments anyway.

  11. #31

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    So Pulisic came on late and scored 2, assisted 1 goal.... againt St. Vincent

    Regardless, I hope the kid signs a contract as soon as he turns 18. It would be terrible if the clubs drives him away because they signed Schürrle and co.

  12. #32
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    I would like to congratulate Poland and Dernmark for their qualification to the world cup/play-offs
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  13. #33
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    So we just conceeded twice before half time against Lithuania. Our coach remains optimistic because the same thing once happened to him against Faroe Islands.

  14. #34

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinarius View Post
    Recent Qualification-match between Japan and the United Arabian Emirates (with an Arabian referee from Qatar)
    It was a Qatari Referee not an Arabian Referee. Unless you mean "Arabic" referring to his apparent linguistic and ethnic group.

    Contrary to what people might think, referees care only about one thing, doing the next best game. In this case (a FIFA referee), getting to the World Cup is the goal. Once in the World Cup, then you want the final!
    The Referee crew missed a crucial cal on the goal line. The AR is not likely to be chose to be in the pool of potential ARs for the World Cup. The bigger the game, the harder you generally fall. The "center" referee still has a chance, though slim of getting to the World Cup. FIFA generally choose referees from different regions but only to satisfy the delusional paranoia of the fans, not because of an so- called inherent bias. Sorry to disappoint, but calls do happen even to the most skilled and experience referees. The action is much faster than it appears. I know this because I have worked with new referees who are in over the heads in U12 matches. LOL

  15. #35

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    It was a Qatari Referee not an Arabian Referee. Unless you mean "Arabic" referring to his apparent linguistic and ethnic group.
    I could have said Gulf Arab instead. During the world cup of 1982, people quickly assumed that Germans would help their neighbor Austria to qualify alongside with them by winning with not more than one goal, but I guess it's "racist" to wonder if something similar happened in this case.

  16. #36

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinarius View Post
    I could have said Gulf Arab instead. During the world cup of 1982, people quickly assumed that Germans would help their neighbor Austria to qualify alongside with them by winning with not more than one goal, but I guess it's "racist" to wonder if something similar happened in this case.
    Race is a red herring!

    Your example you cited is a perfect example of self- interest. Once Germany had their goal neither team gained anything by seriously playing the match.
    The referee crew on the match in question made a poor decision. Pure and simple. Their goal is to be selected for the World Cup. Like the German and Austrian players, their motivation is driven by self- interest.
    Supposedly, in the 2002 World Cup the players of Portugal was trying to convince the Koreans not to push for the win, which would had allowed both clubs to advance. The US was losing to Poland. The Koreans, playing at home, and refused, scoring the winning goal. There is no way the Koreans self- interest wasn't anything short of impressing the home fans. So, I hate to break it to you, but there was NO racism in 1982 nor in 2002, nor in Japan UAE game. It was just a bad call.

  17. #37
    Treva ★'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    1982 wasn't racist -it was a fix.
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  18. #38
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    I don't get why Europe gets so much more vacancies at the World Cup than the other continents. Giving them thirteen while South America gets only five ends up leaving good teams (like Ecuador and Colombia) out of the championship in favor of some that are pretty bad (Bosnia in 2014, for example).


  19. #39

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    South America has only 10 teams. 50% qualifying is pretty good. Europe gets 33%.

  20. #40
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    10 good teams, around the same amount of Europe. They say the places are distributed based on football quality, and still every four years I have to see some completely useless teams who would be beaten by Venezuela or Paraguay playing in the WC because Europe has an excessive number of spots in it.

    Edit: South America actually just has 4 spots. The fifth place goes to the international playoffs, and of course always wins.

    The way I see it they should take away 3 spots from Europe and give 2 to South America and 1 to Africa. It would be better like this.
    Last edited by Macunaíma; November 15, 2016 at 05:31 PM.


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