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Thread: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

  1. #81

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Janssen failing at Tottenham (for now) was the nail in the coffin for this generation. Not sure what went wrong, but the Netherlands always had a top notch striker ( Van Basten, Kluyvert, Van Nistelrooy, Van Persie) in the last decades and Janssen was supposed to be this one's.
    Depay is too discountinous as shown at Man Utd, again ending a tradition of quality Dutch wingers. Strootman is the best of the team imo, but injury prone. Wijnaldum is alright, but I doubt he'll ever be a top player ass well. It's going to be a tough decade.

  2. #82
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Macunama View Post
    I was referring to the Cup itself. And it was a joke.
    I know.
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  3. #83

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Netherlands, USA, Chile and Paraguay are out. Italy on playoffs, and Iceland is in directly while Poland is not only in but will be a group leader. Some crazy .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_F..._qualification
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  4. #84

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Well Italy had Spain in the group so one or the other would have to do play offs. Though it'd be a national tragedy if they don't make it.

    USA out is a shock, especially this time that Concacaf had up to 4 spots.

    Netherlands.... it's not a shock anymore. It confirms that the failure to qualify for Euro 2016 wasn't a casual fluke but a generational crisis.

    Argentina went through a drama. They had to win yesterday and were down 1-0 after 1 minute. Then Messi decided to carry hard and won the game by himself.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Yea, the Dutch team played incredibly poorly during the qualifiers so not too bothered about them not going to the World Cup next year. Admittedly they would probably have qualified if their last-minute winner in Sweden wasn't disallowed for no apparent reason.
    They really need to step away from the current playing style though. This generation might lack world class talent, certainly now Robben has retired, but there should be enough talent to at least qualify for tournaments.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    USA out is a shock, especially this time that Concacaf had up to 4 spots.
    I supposed if you were not following close attention, then it is a shocked. The team played abysmally under Klinsmann. Arena came into the scene like a hero, but players continue to play poorly as if Klinsmann was the only reason why they were performing badly.
    I watched the team during the Gold Cup and even though they had the "understudies" in their you can see a lackluster effort by the players. When more of the first team players joined in the playoff rounds the demeanor changed very little. This team from a technical and tactically standpoints were probably better if not as good as previous teams, but their effort and drive was by far the worse i have ever seen. It has though they took the attitude that the US was better than CONCACAF competition even though the level of play has improved over the years. It is actually a good think they didn't make it; the last thing we need is for the national team to go the World Cup and stink it up. It was bad enough in 1998.

    For the record CONCACAF has 3.5, not 4. The 4th place team will go into a playoff with the 5th place finisher in Asia.
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  7. #87
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    The Netherlands, US and Chile missing the WC is huge, while seeing Panama and most likely Peru (80% chance that they will defeat NZ) making it is a nice surprise. Kinda sucks that Syria ed up against Australia tho, otherwise they might have had a great oppurtunity to qualify, since Honduras isn't exactly an impossible task. Now I am looking forward to the final matches of the CAF qualification. Hoping for Morocco, while the other teams will most likely be Tunisia and Senegal, if the latter doesn't get its ass beaten by South Africa.

  8. #88

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I supposed if you were not following close attention, then it is a shocked. The team played abysmally under Klinsmann. Arena came into the scene like a hero, but players continue to play poorly as if Klinsmann was the only reason why they were performing badly.
    I watched the team during the Gold Cup and even though they had the "understudies" in their you can see a lackluster effort by the players. When more of the first team players joined in the playoff rounds the demeanor changed very little. This team from a technical and tactically standpoints were probably better if not as good as previous teams, but their effort and drive was by far the worse i have ever seen. It has though they took the attitude that the US was better than CONCACAF competition even though the level of play has improved over the years. It is actually a good think they didn't make it; the last thing we need is for the national team to go the World Cup and stink it up. It was bad enough in 1998.

    For the record CONCACAF has 3.5, not 4. The 4th place team will go into a playoff with the 5th place finisher in Asia.
    I haven't watched a single game tbh.

    But I've been on this forum for a decade, I'm used to the post-world cup thread by Americans ''in x years we'll become a top team you'll see''.

    Not going to happen this time.


    I'm glad Egypt made it. They are some of the best performers in the African Cup, but always failed the World Cup qualifiers.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; October 11, 2017 at 09:02 PM.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    I haven't watched a single game tbh.

    But I've been on this forum for a decade, I'm used to the post-world cup thread by Americans ''in x years we'll become a top team you'll see''.

    Not going to happen this time.
    If you mean top 5 in the world, well by definition if that were going to happen it will always happen post World Cup. But anyway,...
    The success of the national team rest entirely on the development of the local league, MLS. Each time I go home for the summer, I noticed that the league has been improving bit by bit. It will be quite sometime before the supplant the BIG THREE (NFL, MLB, NBA), but they actually do not have to. Unlike in other countries, Americans are a multi-sport fan. The US have a number of advantages, wealth, population size, and a strong interest in sports (A sports crazy culture), but there are also significant challenges. While the sports popularity among youth is strong and the appeal among fans rising, it came from a very low place in the sports hierarchy. Most athletes have to choose in High school and so the number drop. There is also competition between high schools and club teams. Representing your high school is a huge thing in the US. There are also the college teams and the challenges of Title IX (in which colleges need to offer equal number of sports for men and women; men's soccer is sacrifice in place of women's soccer). Even at that level there are competition.

    There was reason to have high hopes after 2002, but in 2006 we face more disappointments. In 2010 there again some hope only to stagnate in 2014. The failure now is a result of mismanagement start before 2010.

    On a side note, i cannot believe Cote d'Ivoire allowed Mali to draw with them. The World Cup needs an exciting African team. At least they play at home. They will be highly motivated to play their best. Egypt lucked out by having a very easy group. Ghana is a mere shadow of its former self. Egypt is an enigma. They play great in African Cup but find away to mediocrity in WC qualifiers. Good to see them trough. I would love to see Zambia one day, as well as, Uzbekistan. They both have been fun to watch in the past and showed great promise.
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  10. #90

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    i remember people posting here back in 2010 that in 12 years the US would have WON a world cup, and when given the examples of the netherlands, who has never even won, or england, who hasnt even made to a final since 1966, they said due to US sports culture you bet your ass the US would win one in that short amount of time


    They should start thinking about actually making to the world cups before winning them LOL, way to be arrogant


    Place US and Mexico in conmebol and the US will hardly make it to 8th place (above bolivia and venezuela), with Mexico having just some chances to classify. Just check on Chile, a team ten times better than both...
    Last edited by Wulfburk; October 12, 2017 at 12:40 PM.
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  11. #91
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfburk View Post
    i remember people posting here back in 2010 that in 12 years the US would have WON a world cup, and when given the examples of the netherlands, who has never even won, or england, who hasnt even made to a final since 1966, they said due to US sports culture you bet your ass the US would win one in that short amount of time
    They should start thinking about actually making to the world cups before winning them LOL, way to be arrogant
    I find that hard to believe that anyone would say that in 2010. We didn't exactly light it up in 2010 and 2006 was a poor showing. In 2002, I can believe. We outplayed Germany and loss to an unlucky goal and were also unlucky not to score. I believe any the German players said as much. In 1998 was also a very bad showing. I would say it would be rare to hear anyone state the US would "win" the World cup in "12 years." I have never heard an exact number before. It is definitely an extreme minority.

    The United States prior to 1990 had not made a World Cup since 1950. We have made every World Cup till now. It isn't the end of the world not making one World Cup. The issue is a combination of management and an over reliance on older players.

    The fact that the Netherlands have never won it or English since 1966 has zero bearing on whether or not the US can win it in any given umber of years. Certain teams win more than other because something that goes beyond the tangibles, but the intangibles. Perennial winners who fail to win championships all lack that intangible. The US sports culture only allows the US to compete in multiple sports, it doesn't guarantee winning. Moreover, England is competitive in three sports. Its football teams are usually regarded as one of the top teams, its rugby team is one of the top, and its cricket team is also a top team. The bottom line in sports anything can happen. As we say in the US "on any given Sunday." Self- belief is ingrained in our heads the moment we play any sport in the US. In fact, if you don't believe you were told to go join a knitting club (true story). I am an optimist till this day because it. I think my teams are going to win every single year. Heck, my Saints are 2-2 and i think we can go 14-2 if we played like we did in our two wins. On to the Super Bowl! If that's arrogance to you, then I want to be the most arrogant bastard on the planet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfburk View Post
    Place US and Mexico in conmebol and the US will hardly make it to 8th place (above bolivia and venezuela), with Mexico having just some chances to classify. Just check on Chile, a team ten times better than both...
    Every now and then you read this nonsense too. They call this trash talk for a reason. It lacks reason. Since when is Peru a world beater,...LOL I know Peruvians and they will laugh if you didn't list them as bad. I wouldn't exactly say that Ecuador, Paraguay or Uruguay or consistent good either. Colombia and Chile both have not been great either. The only consistent countries have been Argentina and Brazil. I love how Mexico would barely qualify when Mexico always make out of the group since 1994. In some WCs they won their group.
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  12. #92

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Colombia and Chile both have not been great either.
    This is nonsense.

    Right now those teams are far superior to mexico or US.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by lolIsuck View Post
    Yea, the Dutch team played incredibly poorly during the qualifiers so not too bothered about them not going to the World Cup next year. Admittedly they would probably have qualified if their last-minute winner in Sweden wasn't disallowed for no apparent reason.
    They really need to step away from the current playing style though. This generation might lack world class talent, certainly now Robben has retired, but there should be enough talent to at least qualify for tournaments.
    I wonder if not the problem we have, compared to quite a few smaller football nations that do qualify, is that we have so many decent but not great players. When there aren't any top players, it's difficult for any coach to say: I'm going to stick with this group of players and make a team out of it no matter what. There's always such a temptation to go with the "flavour of the month" and so many players who must be thinking "If they get selected, why don't I"? How's that ever going to lead to the team spirit necessary to make up for lack of quality?
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  14. #94

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    This is nonsense.

    Right now those teams are far superior to mexico or US.

    This. And the reason uruguay and etc are so inconsistent is due to the difficulty of playing any away game in conmebol. This isnt ing trinidad or honduras mate.

    Peru isnt any bit great, and certainly worse than chile, who did not classify.

    But guerrero is probably worth more than half the american squad. Again, mexico in conmebol would have a nice fight to make it, and would probably end up between 4 and 6 with some odd years. There is a reason real good teams like argentina have such a hard time in here. And the US?

    Werent they trash talking the europeans on the level of the fields the US has to play? Lol, let them play in conmebol with the libertadores atmosphere, would all be probably afraid of just making a corner kick.
    Last edited by Wulfburk; October 12, 2017 at 06:43 PM.
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  15. #95
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    I wonder if not the problem we have, compared to quite a few smaller football nations that do qualify, is that we have so many decent but not great players. When there aren't any top players, it's difficult for any coach to say: I'm going to stick with this group of players and make a team out of it no matter what. There's always such a temptation to go with the "flavour of the month" and so many players who must be thinking "If they get selected, why don't I"? How's that ever going to lead to the team spirit necessary to make up for lack of quality?
    What you say is interesting, there is indeed a fairly large selection of players of roughly the same quality and the selection has been quite random at times these last few years. That shouldn't really affect the spirits of the players that are selected though, but it would of course frustate those that aren't. With the amount of changes in the selection I do agree that you can't really build a team out of it if there's a handful of changes to the starting XI every other game. There isn't even a core of a few players to build some sort of framework, I think the only player who'd pretty much always feature would be Van Dijk, the rest are toss-ups really.

    The biggest problem in my opinion is the tactics used though. The way they play now won't even make an amateur team nervous, you just have to apply minimal pressure on the defense and all they'll do is pass the ball around. The midfield takes itself out of the match by doing absolutely nothing, no movement whatsoever. Janssen is on an island and possibly has the worst first touch I've seen, barring perhaps Ard van Peppen and the lads from the local pub team. He couldn't control the ball if his life depended on it. The wingers can't really do anything if they get the ball on the touchline somewhere in midfield. All in all it is toothless, they want to play dominant possession play, pressing the opponent into defense but the opponent can just lean back on their own half and most of the game we'll see the dutch defenders playing the ball to one another.
    Of course the lack of spirit is also a massive problem and combined with the playing style you get embarrassing performances like the Belarus game. And then there's of course people like Strootman and to a lesser extent Wijnaldum seemingly losing basically all skill when playing for the national team.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    This is nonsense.
    Right now those teams are far superior to mexico or US.
    I think it should had been obvious i wasn't just referring to the present. Moreover, in the 2016 Copa America the US lost 1-0. Perhaps now, they are better. How much, who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfburk View Post
    This. And the reason uruguay and etc are so inconsistent is due to the difficulty of playing any away game in conmebol. This isnt ing trinidad or honduras mate.
    This sounds like an excuse. T&T was at one time a decent side that held their own in the WC. Uruguay as well, so there you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfburk View Post
    But guerrero is probably worth more than half the american squad. Again, mexico in conmebol would have a nice fight to make it, and would probably end up between 4 and 6 with some odd years. There is a reason real good teams like argentina have such a hard time in here. And the US?
    I think a huge misconception is that a team of "great players" is a "great team." Unfortunately, that is not the case. If so, the New York Yankees would have one three times the number of Championships. In US sports, small market team (low budget teams) sometimes outperform larger budgeted teams. An example is the Oakland Athletics. There was even a movie made about their success they enjoyed. What makes a great team is chemistry and cohesion. When "great players" have that as a team, they usually do win. However, if another team of lesser quality have it and the "great Player" team does not, they lose. If you look at the US team, they definitely lack cohesion and chemistry. Arena had virtually the same players as Klinsmann and yet his overall performance wasn't any better. You cannot change Chemistry and cohesion by injecting a new coach/ manager. It is something that exist between players.

    One thing I know for sure when a person starts naming "superstars" as a reason why a team will be successful, then I know they don't have a clue. Even if the team does win, it isn't the individuals it is the chemistry between them that led to their success. This is one of the "intangibles" I was commenting on in the last post. The term addition by subtraction gets used in this situation because dropping a "superstore" may actually improve chemistry and overall cohesion of the team.

    As far as Argentina's troubles , it too comes down to chemistry. Most South America countries have well- established club national leagues. Many of the draw from these leagues. Many of these players have a degree of built in chemistry that helps elevate their play. Teams like Brazil and Argentina have a large numbers of player that play in other leagues. It is more difficult to develop chemistry among the players. You can see this effect in tournaments. As the tournaments progresses, they will improve assuming the chemistry is there.

    I am not presumptuous as you to say how the US will perform. In the past, they had mixed results.
    Last edited by PikeStance; October 13, 2017 at 04:50 AM.
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  17. #97

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    If Italy gets kicked out by Sweden, then we clearly don't deserve to be in the world cup.

    Pretty astonishing how Conte did a really good job with a really mediocre team, while Ventura might not even qualify with a much more talented generation.

    His selection never felt like a team. While many players do not perform as good as they do in their clubs when they are in the national team, Verratti feels like he's not there at all. Immobile and Belotti score a crapload for their clubs, but there was never a good chemistry between them, so why insist? Insigne is always in the wrong position.

    Ventura forced his usual tactics on a team without having the right players, instead of building the team around the good key players.

  18. #98

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    I think it should had been obvious i wasn't just referring to the present. Moreover, in the 2016 Copa America the US lost 1-0. Perhaps now, they are better. How much, who knows?
    Btw Friendly Portugal VS US is coming soon.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; November 12, 2017 at 02:42 PM.

  19. #99
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    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    I've been thinking a bit about what makes a great international team.

    For countries like Germany and Spain I think that they have benefited a lot from having more than half the starting XI coming from one or two clubs. This creates a natural spine of the team and if 4-8 players are very familiar with each other its much easier for the other players to slide into the team. With the recent success of Tottenham I think England could be a great test for this theory. Traditionally England have performed quite poorly in the World Championships with a team consisting of one or two stars from each team which reduced balance and cohesion. With the success of Tottenham they can instead build their team on 5 current Tottenham players, one former Tottenham player and 5 other players with something like:

    ----------------Butland--------------
    Walker----Stones----Cahill----Rose
    --------------Dier--Winks.-----------
    --------Sterling--Alli--Rashford/Lallana
    -----------------Kane-----------------

    Smaller nations obviously does not have this luxury but I think countries like Sweden benefit a lot from the fact that we can play a starting XI with more "character players". Right now we only have one true star but the rest of the team consist of players who know each other well and got a reasonable combination of physical prowess, speed and passing skills. Thereby it comes very natural to the team when it plays to the strength of a few key players. For the game against Italy we will start with the following team:

    Robin Olsen --Goalkeeper in Copenhagen FC which is the leading club in Denmark
    ----
    Mikael Lustig --Tall and offensive right back playing in Celtic FC. Highly experienced and useful by creating dynamic situations on the right while also being useful in the air with his 189 cm.
    Victor Nilsson-Lindelf --Of Manchester United fame but does far better in the national team where is passing skills help us with quick transitions upfield.
    Andreas Granqvist --Veteran and captain of the team playing for Krasnodar in the Russian league.
    Ludwig Augustinsson --Young and talented left back who is currently breaking into the Bundesliga playing for Werder Bremen.

    ---
    Emil Forsberg --Our only true star and winger for RB Leipzig in Bundesliga, only regular starter who is shorter than 180 cm (he's 179 cm)
    Jakob Johansson --Typical Swedish "character player" playing for AEK Athens in the Greek league. Tall, imposing and great physical shape (188 cm)
    Sebastian Larsson --Nowadays playing for Hull in the Premiership, never got quite as good as we hoped. He is however very experienced and puts in a tidy defensive shift while having a good passing range. With his 178 cm he is the shortest guy of the current starting XI.
    Viktor Claesson --Plays in the Russian league for Krasnodar together with Andreas Granqvist and I only know that he has developed into a very reliable winger with good passing.
    ---
    Marcus Berg --Experienced striker who with his 184 cm plays the "small man" in a classical target player-poacher relationship with Ola Toivonen and won the Golden Boot in the UEFA under 21 championship while playing in the same role with Ola in 2009.
    Ola Toivonen --Target player who is like a more technical but less imposing version of Marouane Fellaini who excels in an advanced midfield role.

    In a way this is probably the most Swedish team presented by Sweden in the last 20-30 years. The entire team is physically imposing and excellent when it comes to the basics of football, the centre is defensively resolute and the whole team is physically strong but lacks the innovation necessary to consistently beat other mediocre teams. During the qualifiers we lost once to France (1-2) and beat them once (2-1) while having one draw and one loss versus the Netherlands. When it comes to playing style we rely on a physically strong and disciplined centre while our wingers and fullbacks got more pace and innovation.

    Against Italy I expect that we will play quite defensively with aggressive pressure in the centre while inviting the Italian wing backs to advance. The Swedish forwards are strong and quite vicious so I expect them to give the Italian centre backs a handful even if its a 2 vs 3 situation so I doubt that they will be able to contribute goals in this game. So for Sweden it will be very important to make the most out of our 1-0 lead which sooner or later will force Italy to commit their wing backs in attack and that is when we can really hurt them by quick passes to Claesson and Forsberg who are more than capable of exploiting any space given. Given that Sweden leads 1-0 and I do not see an obvious weakness for Italy to expose I think we got a fairly good chance of qualifying even if the Italian players are better on an individual level.
    Last edited by Adar; November 13, 2017 at 08:17 AM.

  20. #100

    Default Re: World Cup 2018 Qualifiers - Draw

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    I've been thinking a bit about what makes a great international team.

    For countries like Germany and Spain I think that they have benefited a lot from having more than half the starting XI coming from one or two clubs. This creates a natural spine of the team and if 4-8 players are very familiar with each other its much easier for the other players to slide into the team. With the recent success of Tottenham I think England could be a great test for this theory. Traditionally England have performed quite poorly in the World Championships with a team consisting of one or two stars from each team which reduced balance and cohesion. With the success of Tottenham they can instead build their team on 5 current Tottenham players, one former Tottenham player and 5 other players with something like:
    Well yes. Spain relied on the Barcelona bloc: Piqu-Puyol-Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta and for a while Villa dominating the center of the field, + a few guys from Real Madrid. Ironic considering those would flip for Catalonia in their intentions.

    Top German teams historically relied on the Bayern bloc from the times of Gerd Muller, so nothing new there. Nonetheless if half of the team already knows how to play with each other, it's a huge advantage, because national teams often lack the cohestion for many players to do their best.

    It's probably the main reason Belgium isn't winning anything despite a golden generation. They mostly play for different teams, thus struggle in the national one.

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