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Thread: Changes in pike men.

  1. #21

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Bane1 View Post
    Sorry, I posted to what dvk said. Should have quoted it...
    I'm with your idea and made further suggestions. To change this unit in something that accurately represents a unit out of Helotoi. That's something I'm asking myself why aren't there any Helotoi units, besides the skirmishers and slingers. Something so crucial for Sparta can't be missed. Neo has made two units for his mod, one Helotoi unit with simple spears and a Neodamodai Hoplitai unit. I'm not sure if those would work modelwise. This Helotoi unit has a grey tunic, but no helmet at all. Simple recolouring would be easy.
    Yes, that would be more historical. Thank you Darth, After checking, my books reveal Sparta's units were very inexpensive. The common citizen solder of any type, used what they had. The tunic was regular clothing, of course. I would imagine the pilos, or common helmets that was near 229 A.C.E would be used. The Long spears, [Levy pike men] for less experienced troops that wasn't trained as otherPhalangite and the Spartan hoplite. Then you have the list of Spartan units that we investigated, to come as close as possible, If the Spartan Empire had survived. I think a simple unit, similar like the Mace. long spear pike men would work well. I like the gray look, but all warriors should have a helm at least and a small shield.


    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alavaria View Post
    It's not its own unit, Macedon and Sparta both use the same "greek levy pikeman" unit, they are cleverly textured & mapped etc to not look the same though
    For Sparta also? I just looked at all the Mace units. Which are used for Mercs for Sparta. But only Mace spearmen Levy pike unit,[ tunic] is found in Mace, not in Sparta's Mercs list. And I guess elsewhere for the Greeks. This Macedonia unit doesn't have a pilos, I can't remember the name of their helmit, but it's round.
    If you can show me, I like to see it. Thanks. I do know they share the next upgrade unit, the Levy pike unit, with the Linothorax Armour.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Well what is the unit named for these macedonian levy that you are looking at? Take a screenshot of their unit info screen.

    {greek_levy_pikemen} Levy Pikemen

    {greek_levy_pikemen_descr}
    Egyptian - Machimoi Phalangites\nMacedon & Seleucid - Pandotapoi Phalangites\n\nPhalanx pikemen (or phalangites) form the backbone of Macedonian style battle lines. In phalanx formation these troops can be used to pin the enemy line in place, while mobile forces wheel around the flanks to deliver a decisive blow. \n\nThe phalangites are drawn from families with decent resources, as these men need to provide leather cuirass armour and a metal helmet for protection. Phalanx pikemen carry a small shield strapped to the left arm, leaving both hands free to brandish a lengthy pike (the sarissa). Gripped in both hands above the head up to five ranks' worth of pikes can be aimed at the enemy. Men in rows further back hold their pikes at a 45 degree angle, creating a shield to ward off enemy arrows. All phalanx pikemen also have short swords.

    {greek_levy_pikemen_descr_short}
    Phalanx pikemen form the backbone of Macedonian style battle lines, and are used to engage and hold the enemy's main force.
    These are the lowest tier pikemen Macedon gets, literally on the very first tier of their barracks.

    Spoiler for greek_levy_pikemen, Macedon textures


    You can forgive the description about leather armor, it seems to be a copy of the Phalanx Pikemen unit from vanilla RTW

    Levy Pikemen, Vanilla RTW
    Last edited by Alavaria; August 19, 2015 at 11:49 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Yes, those are the ones.
    Sparta doesn't have them in their list or Merc list. But if we change Spartans pike men, or some Merc pike men, it would be nice if they had a pilos helmit, and the tunic. Thanks Alavaria
    .


    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    The spartan unit with pink armor and shields are "greek_levy_pikemen". They show up a "Levy Pikemen" in the Mercenary and Levy Recruitment Center in Sparte and various AoRs

    You can just give them the macedon texture, you know... in descr_model_battle
    Code:
    type				greek_levy_pikeman
    skeleton			fs_thp_f_spearman_p, fs_s1_slow_swordsman	;;;;; combat spear
    indiv_range			40
    texture			germans, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			romans_brutii, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			romans_scipii, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			romans_julii, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			dacia, 	 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			britons, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/freegreeks/pandotapoi_phalangites_freegreek.tga
    texture			macedon, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/macedon/pandotaipoi_phalangites_macedon.tga   ;;all, greek levy pikemen
    texture			greek_cities, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/sparta/pandotapoi_phalangites_sparta.tga
    texture			gauls, 	 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			boii, 	 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			armenia, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/freegreeks/pandotapoi_phalangites_freegreek.tga
    texture			scythia, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			pontus, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/pontus/pandotapoi_phalangites_pontus.tga
    texture			parthia, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/sparta/pandotapoi_phalangites_sparta.tga
    texture			numidia,  	data/models_unit/textures/tone/pergamon/pandotapoi_phalangites_pergamon.tga
    texture			carthage,   	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			egypt,    	data/models_unit/textures/tone/ptolemaic/machimoi_phalangites_ptolemaic.tga
    texture			spain,    	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			seleucid, 	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			thrace,     	data/models_unit/textures/tone/Seleucid/pandotapoi_phalangites_seleucid.tga
    texture			slave, 	  	data/models_unit/textures/tone/slave/pandotapoi_phalangites_slave.tga
    texture			merc,     	data/models_unit/textures/tone/freegreeks/pandotapoi_phalangites_bythinia.tga     ;;bithynian levy phalangites
    model_flexi			data/models_unit/pandotaipoi_phalangites_high.cas, max
    model_sprite	50.0, data/sprites/RS_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	germans, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	romans_brutii, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	romans_scipii, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	romans_julii, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	dacia, 	 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	britons, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_britons_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	macedon, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_macedon_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	greek_cities, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_greek_cities_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	gauls, 	 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	boii, 	 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	armenia, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_britons_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	scythia, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	pontus, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_pontus_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	parthia, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_greek_cities_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	numidia,  	50.0, data/sprites/RS_numidia_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	carthage,   	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	egypt,    	50.0, data/sprites/RS_egypt_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	spain,    	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	seleucid, 	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	thrace,     	50.0, data/sprites/RS_seleucid_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	slave, 	  	50.0, data/sprites/RS_slave_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_sprite	merc,     	50.0, data/sprites/RS_greek_levy_pikeman_sprite.spr
    model_tri			400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f
    sparte recruits them from (EDB)
    Code:
    building merc_building
    {
        levels merc_building
        {
            merc_building requires factions { romans_julii, boii, gauls, dacia, germans, spain, nomad, armenia, parthia, egypt, numidia, seleucid, macedon, greek_cities, pontus, }  and building_present_min_level barb_order barb_order3 or building_present_min_level celtic_order celtic_order3 or building_present_min_level germanic_order germanic_order3 or building_present_min_level successor_order successor_order3 or building_present_min_level ptolemaic_order ptolemaic_order3 or building_present_min_level greek_order greek_order3 or building_present_min_level spartan_mora mora_order3 or building_present_min_level eastern_order eastern_order3 or building_present_min_level equestrian hippodrome
            {
                capability
                {
    .... etc etc
                    recruit "greek levy pikemen"  0  requires factions { parthia, nomad, barbarian, greek_cities, numidia, armenia, }  and hidden_resource area8
                    recruit "greek levy pikemen"  0  requires factions { parthia, nomad, barbarian, greek_cities, numidia, armenia, }  and hidden_resource area9
                    recruit "greek levy pikemen"  0  requires factions { parthia, nomad, barbarian, greek_cities, numidia, armenia, }  and hidden_resource area12
                    recruit "greek levy pikemen"  0  requires factions { parthia, nomad, barbarian, greek_cities, numidia, armenia, }  and hidden_resource area14
    The merc building is of course:
    Code:
    {merc_building_name}Recruit Mercenaries and Regional Units
    
    {merc_building}	Mercenary and Regional Unit Recruitment
    
    {merc_building_greek_desc}
    Your diplomats and representatives have been busy making contacts with other tribes and peoples in this region and the surrounding regions. Many of these people are sympathetic to your cause, or do not mind your rule compared to their former masters. So they send warriors to fight with your armies and to bolster your forces in times of need.\n\nBut these are not the only allies your representatives have found. There are numerous mercenaries in this area as well....men who sell their services for a nominal cost, as long as they have a hand in the booty and wealth that your conquering armies will acquire. These can indeed be trustworthy men, for they live by a code of honor that says once they have agreed to fight for you, they will uphold their end of the bargain as long as you uphold yours. It would not be a good idea to betray that trust. They may well go and fight for you enemies instead.!!
    Last edited by Alavaria; August 20, 2015 at 03:02 AM.

  6. #26
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Ok, I changed the Sparta texture and sprite so that Sparta uses the same unit as Macedon.....which I didn't notice was different (thanks, Alavaria, for pointing that out). SW, that unit should look more like what you want.....it is shown above in post #23.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  7. #27

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Thanks guys, I guess we will add it to the list for updates.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    To some extent it isn't surprising that Sparta's levy pikemen would be just a copy of Macedon's.

    Not having armor (at least for the ranks further back) helps costs a lot (using the pikes to help substitute), which I think was one reason why Phillip did it as well.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alavaria View Post
    To some extent it isn't surprising that Sparta's levy pikemen would be just a copy of Macedon's.

    Not having armor (at least for the ranks further back) helps costs a lot (using the pikes to help substitute), which I think was one reason why Phillip did it as well.
    There you go, those are my thoughts. Thanks.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    It's ironic that Sparte starts able to train the Perioikoi pikemen, but can't levy their helots or whatever for it

  11. #31

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alavaria View Post
    It's ironic that Sparte starts able to train the Perioikoi pikemen, but can't levy their helots or whatever for it
    Yes, it's kinda backwards. But like I said, we had so much on our plates trying to get this mod released, and all the issues with units and factions ECT... I don't know how we missed it. Which I knew most citizen Spartan helots would have less Armour and experience. Can it be adjusted? I'm not a skinner, just a researcher and tester in those days. Maybe we can change it?

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Well if you wanted, it's possible to make every level of the Sparta barracks able to recruit the levy pikemen but only in Sparta.

    You'd have to add:
    Code:
    recruit "greek levy pikemen"  0  requires factions { greek_cities, }  and hidden_resource sparta
    To every level of the spartan mora building.

  13. #33
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    But, you can build the 'merc' building in Sparta and accomplish the same thing. The levy pikemen were excluded from the Spartan 'Mora' building simply because they were 'Helots' and not Spartans.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  14. #34

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Eh I'm sure the helot peltasts were in the mora building, though they did get replaced with just a generic greek peltast unit perhaps.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    What ever works. And it's true- the Helots, had less experience and respect among the Empire. But, in RS2, they need every man. Let's do a Merc building.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    So what did we decide to do?

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

  17. #37
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    As I mentioned somewhere above, I changed the Spartan texture so that it now uses the Macedonian one...pilos helmet and no armor. That's really all I can do about this without really digging into things, and I have little time. Since other mods don't even portray levy pikemen as you suggest (that I could find, anyway), I don't even have anything I could beg or borrow. Ideally, I suppose all of the textures for the levy pikemen should be changed....but I'm afraid to do that because I don't know exactly how these 'multi-models' Tone made even work, and then there's the issue of sprites that won't match, and so on. As it is, I can and did change the Spartan recruited unit.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  18. #38

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    Ideally, I suppose all of the textures for the levy pikemen should be changed....but I'm afraid to do that because I don't know exactly how these 'multi-models' Tone made even work, and then there's the issue of sprites that won't match, and so on.
    It's not that complicated. Basically anywhere in the EDU you see the soldier "greek_levy_pikemen" it will use that soldier model/animations.

    All "greek_levy_pikemen" use the textures and sprites as set forth in the "descr_model_battle" according to the faction that owns the soldier. The exception is if the EDU unit has the "merc" attribute, then regardless of owner, the unit will use the texture and sprite for the "merc" faction.

    FYI, I think the "Bithnian Levy Pikemen" are the unit that uses the merc version of the greek_levy_pikeman soldier.
    Last edited by Alavaria; September 06, 2015 at 12:07 AM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Changes in pike men.

    Thanks DVK, sounds good.

    Roma Surrectum Greek/Spartan Researcher/Tester.

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