Marijuana saves lives (yes, you read that correctly)

[Roma_Victrix]

Marijuana dispensaries save lives, new study shows

The United States has a problem with painkillers. During the past 15 years, America has seen a tremendous growth in both the sales of prescription opiates and the number of people who die each year from abusing them. More than 16,000 people fatally overdosed on prescription painkillers in 2013, accounting for 60% of all overdose deaths, according to the Center for Disease Control. But a new study suggests that some states have already stumbled onto a means of curbing this fatal epidemic: Easily-accessible marijuana.

For the study, researchers from the RAND Corporation and the University of California-Irvine (UCI) examined whether, in the years following legalization, states that legalized marijuana had experienced reductions in fatal overdoses and addiction treatment center admissions relating to opioid abuse. The researchers found that these states experienced significant reductions in both measures of opioid misuse — but only if they had also legalized marijuana dispensaries.

In the six states where doctors are allowed to prescribe marijuana, but where retail dispensaries are prohibited, the study found “no evidence” of “reductions in substance abuse or mortality.” But in those 18 states where medical marijuana shops are allowed, they found a 16% reduction in “opioid-related mortality” and 28% reduction in opioid-abuse treatment admissions.

Critics of marijuana dispensaries often accuse them of fostering an environment of de facto legalization. In some states, once a doctor provides a qualifying card, the patient can purchase marijuana virtually at will. As Vox’s German Lopez writes, “Just about anyone can go to Venice Beach in Los Angeles, pay around $40 for a card, and legally buy and smoke a joint within five minutes.”

But it may be this very ease of “abuse” that allows dispensaries to prevent fatal overdoses.

The Rand/UCI study found that there was no decline in the distribution of legal opioid painkillers in states with dispensaries. Thus, the researchers suggest that the reduction in painkiller abuse in these states comes less from patients switching their prescriptions, than from people who were taking illegally obtained opioids replacing the drugs with legal weed. In other words — the findings suggest that dispensaries may have saved the lives of some recreational pill-poppers, who quit hard drugs once they got a pot prescription.

Chronic marijuana use is not without potential harms. Although research has been limited because of government restrictions, at least some studies have found that such use can contribute to memory loss and amotivational disorder. But no one has ever died from smoking too much weed. And if further research shows that opening dispensaries really does turn a significant number of opioid abusers into potheads, legal weed may start to look like a sound prescription for America’s drug problem.

If the world was logically consistent, then during Prohibition we would have banned alcohol and fully legalized weed, since the former can actually poison you to death and destroy your liver, while the latter merely makes you giggle and may lead to some memory loss and lack of motivation (i.e. laziness and urge to eat and watch stupid crap on TV that makes you laugh). WOW! What an evil and dangerous drug marijuana is compared to alcohol.

In all honestly, I don't think alcohol should be banned either, or possession and consumption of it made into a criminal offense, because throwing people away in jail for decades for having fun one night and not hurting anyone else is retarded. Just like with alcohol, I wouldn't want anyone operating heavy machinery after smoking or eating marijuana and that should be illegal, but if I had the choice to get into the backseat of a car driven either by a drunk or a pothead, I would choose the pothead every time without even blinking or giving it a second thought. Alcohol creates loud, abusive, obnoxious behavior, encouraging not only promiscuity but also brazen rape. Marijuana creates quiet, pensive, introspective, and slouchy behavior that's hardly in the same league as alcohol, let alone cocaine (which is fantastically placed in the same class and category of felony offense as marijuana in many countries).

If you wanted further testament and proof as to why marijuana should be legal, here you have it. It's medicinal value alone makes criticism against it laughable and stupid. If you don't support medical marijuana then you are no better than a sadist and apathetic bystander who sits back and watches people die on the side of the road after a car crash, refusing to call an ambulance. If you don't support medical marijuana you might in fact be a sociopath who enjoys suffering or at the very least entirely indifferent to it. If you don't support medical marijuana then you are either all of these aforementioned things, or are simply profoundly ignorant about the opioid-related deaths and overdoses on pain pill prescriptions that happen every year. If you're that ignorant, then you're probably like a 5 or 6-year-old, which is excusable. But if you're an adult, over the age of 18 and you don't support medical marijuana, then I have to call into question your motives, your intelligence, your integrity, and your possible sociopathy.

I hope that didn't sound too harsh.

[miggo]

To all men here. According to some research, using marijuana decreases the amount of operational sperm you produce and may lower your fertility. So beware O_O

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

To all men here. According to some research, using marijuana decreases the amount of operational sperm you produce and may lower your fertility. So beware O_O

Isn't that for smoking in general.

I don't smoke so why should I do marijuana?



This ban comes from an wide ultraconservative movement in 19th century and early 20th century I think. Ban 'pleasure' why else would normal smokes be legal then they are equaly bad I think. So to me the ban seems stupid in our sinfull 21th century ..

[Himster]

I don't smoke so why should I do marijuana?

Most people don't smoke, but everyone "does" brownies.

[Roma_Victrix]

Most people don't smoke, but everyone "does" brownies.

Moreover, eating chocolate brownies don't harm your lungs or give you lung cancer. They can make you fat if you eat too many, though.

[Himster]

Moreover, eating chocolate brownies don't harm your lungs or give you lung cancer. They can make you fat if you eat too many, though.

Low fat brownies: gay people like brownies too you know.

[Roma_Victrix]

Low fat brownies: gay people like brownies too you know.

Hey now, quit throwing us heterosexuals under the bus and calling us fat! I have to admit, though, that it is odd that gay men care so much about sculpting their bodies and looking muscular, whereas us straight guys have absolutely no problem having a beer belly. Women may not like that or say out loud they don't like it, but I think deep down ladies don't mind a big fat slob at all. Admit it ladies: all of you secretly want a big fat guy to boss you around and order you to make sandwiches in the kitchen.

[Caligula's_Horse]

Presumably, the marijuana people use is a barely refined version of the plant, which contains a long list of materials of inconsistent concentrations (plants don't exactly grow to speck), leading to a long list of side effects if all you're after is just pain relief. Smoking it also can't be good for your lungs. It might still be better then giving people some of the stuff we use as painkillers, much of which is classified as hard drugs if it hits the streets, though ideally, it sounds like what we need to be doing is isolating some of the compounds in marijuana, so that we could better control the dosage and side effects. There's a decent chance its already in progress without my knowledge; with any luck, it'll make medical marijuana obsolete in a few years.

Regardless of medical application though, banning the stuff seems to do more harm then good, much like prohibition during the 1920s in the US. Rather then having the police play cat and mouse and lock up nonviolent offenders by the thousands, you could just tax and regulate the stuff instead to reduce the negative impacts on society, and actually make money rather then serving as a sink for it.

[hellheaven1987]

I want the legalization of caffeine, in large bucket.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Tsk, tsk, tsk, when will you guys understand, this is not about health, it's about money!!!!!!!!!!

[Påsan]

Alright, we are going to give this a chance on the premise of honest discussion, guys, try to keep on topic and keep in mind the ToS, specifically this section:

• Encouraging or advocating an illegal activity, or portraying it as normal or acceptable (e.g., casually mentioning that you have pirated games/smoked pot/etc. as though this were normal and acceptable). Exceptions will be made for threads that are devoted to serious discussion of illegal activities in an abstract sense (e.g., about whether copyright law should be relaxed or marijuana should be legalized), on a case-by-case basis.

[Squiggle]

Presumably, the marijuana people use is a barely refined version of the plant, which contains a long list of materials of inconsistent concentrations (plants don't exactly grow to speck), leading to a long list of side effects if all you're after is just pain relief. Smoking it also can't be good for your lungs.

There havent been very many extensive studies---because the FDA basically doesnt allow it--- but those that have been done havent shown any damage to lungs for people who exclusively smoke pot. In fact they've shown an increase in lung capacity as your deeply inhaling at least occasionally.

It might still be better then giving people some of the stuff we use as painkillers, much of which is classified as hard drugs if it hits the streets, though ideally, it sounds like what we need to be doing is isolating some of the compounds in marijuana, so that we could better control the dosage and side effects. There's a decent chance its already in progress without my knowledge; with any luck, it'll make medical marijuana obsolete in a few years.

Well, a couple things:
-They do sell synthetic THC but big pharma increased the price several thousand of times higher than weed, and it has significant downsides as well (weaker and makes you feel sick).
-Pot doesnt even need to be consumed in a way that could even potentially be harmful to the lungs, edibles, obviously.
-I dont see any advantage in attempting to get the medical benefits of THC and cannabinoids but restructure it in such a way as to reduce the 'pleasant' aspect of the high people enjoy.
-We can actually fairly easily control for THC and CBD levels in pot, so we dont need an alternative method in order to get accurate dosages.

The drugs fine as it is.

Regardless of medical application though, banning the stuff seems to do more harm then good, much like prohibition during the 1920s in the US. Rather then having the police play cat and mouse and lock up nonviolent offenders by the thousands, you could just tax and regulate the stuff instead to reduce the negative impacts on society, and actually make money rather then serving as a sink for it.

The problem with regulation, and you can see this in every industry but obviously most clearly in the nascent pot industry of Colorado, is that its inevitably used to create cartels and drive up the price. Regulation will ensure the grey market takes over rather than the black market, which to be sure is an advantage over what we currently have, but obviously completely unjust relative to simply allowing free commerce.

[Stario]

I see marijuana use being less problematic in a 'medico type' setting prescribed by a GP as part of treatment/therapy etc., but I am somewhat skeptical supporting a blanket non-controlled use of marijuana.
It is well documented that prolonged marijuana use has numerous negative long term effects on the brain.

[Caligula's_Horse]

There havent been very many extensive studies---because the FDA basically doesnt allow it--- but those that have been done havent shown any damage to lungs for people who exclusively smoke pot. In fact they've shown an increase in lung capacity as your deeply inhaling at least occasionally. Well, a couple things:
-They do sell synthetic THC but big pharma increased the price several thousand of times higher than weed, and it has significant downsides as well (weaker and makes you feel sick).
-Pot doesnt even need to be consumed in a way that could even potentially be harmful to the lungs, edibles, obviously.
-I dont see any advantage in attempting to get the medical benefits of THC and cannabinoids but restructure it in such a way as to reduce the 'pleasant' aspect of the high people enjoy.
-We can actually fairly easily control for THC and CBD levels in pot, so we dont need an alternative method in order to get accurate dosages.

The drugs fine as it is.
The problem with regulation, and you can see this in every industry but obviously most clearly in the nascent pot industry of Colorado, is that its inevitably used to create cartels and drive up the price. Regulation will ensure the grey market takes over rather than the black market, which to be sure is an advantage over what we currently have, but obviously completely unjust relative to simply allowing free commerce.

Yeah, legalization and regulation might not be entirely effective in the US, where the regulator (lawmakers) are pretty much in the pockets of the private sector through some of the most effective lobbying efforts on the planet. As much as the Americans like to say their economic policies are basically summed up by the phrase "free market", in practice its actually grown highly protectionist over recent years. Still ought to be better then the current situation where most of the profit goes to organized crime though.
Outside the US, it ought to work fine for a nation whose parliament is healthy and functional. They don't have nearly as many problems with "big pharma" and the like in the rest of the developed world, mostly because the market there actually is free.

I still stand by getting rid of the plant in favor of turning it into proper medication though. Its actually a separate issue as far as I'm concerned; the role of a medicinal and recreational drug shouldn't fall on the same substance. The dosage and when and how its released into the bloodstream through the digestive system will never be entirely reliable if you work with the plant as it is, especially if the growing is done illegally and therefore not held to any standards.
The option of being able to use the stuff as medication with minimal recreational value will also completely sidestep the social stigmas of using marijuana as a medical necessity, as well as help clear up some of the legality issues for those that truly have a medical need for it.

By the way, as for the increased lung capacity, you get that from smoking anything, tobacco included. While the capacity to store air increases, the actual ability to diffuse oxygen is reduced due to emphysema (damage to the lung's micro-structure) that you get by inhaling enough smoke of any kind. Hardly relevant for medicinal purposes though, because as mentioned, there are other ways to ingest the stuff.

[Roma_Victrix]

I see marijuana use being less problematic in a 'medico type' setting prescribed by a GP as part of treatment/therapy etc., but I am somewhat skeptical supporting a blanket non-controlled use of marijuana.
It is well documented that prolonged marijuana use has numerous negative long term effects on the brain.

Yes, that's bad, and a reason why you shouldn't smoke copious amounts or smoke it regularly, but you could just as easily say the same things about alcohol, which kills brain cells as well. The US lifted the ban on alcohol regardless, so why not marijuana, something that's overall less harmful to the human body than alcohol?

In either case, medical marijuana has been proven study after study to be not only effective but a safe alternative to the opioid drugs available for pain relief. I actually don't have much against opioid drugs, since I think the latter should be expanded in certain Third and Second World countries where the government fails to provide adequate palliative and end of life care to suffering patients and the terminally ill. That's due to their outdated and quite frankly stupid beliefs that the patients in need of EXTREME pain relief who are receiving the opioid drugs will somehow form an addiction or are getting high on the drugs. NO. That is false. It simply provides pain relief, mitigation to the suffering, not some pleasurable recreational high. That being said, I think in cases of minor and medium pain relief marijuana could easily replace most opioid drugs that are in high demand but low supply anyway. Apparently, despite the global war on drugs (in this case, against heroin), though, poppy fields and illicit opium production in Afghanistan continue to grow, far outstripping Burma and the "Golden Triangle" in that department.

[Condottiere 40K]

3777
A new study seems to think that it's actually tobacco that triggers more extreme neurological effects associated with smoking marijuana.

[Squiggle]

Yeah, legalization and regulation might not be entirely effective in the US, where the regulator (lawmakers) are pretty much in the pockets of the private sector through some of the most effective lobbying efforts on the planet. As much as the Americans like to say their economic policies are basically summed up by the phrase "free market", in practice its actually grown highly protectionist over recent years. Still ought to be better then the current situation where most of the profit goes to organized crime though.
Outside the US, it ought to work fine for a nation whose parliament is healthy and functional. They don't have nearly as many problems with "big pharma" and the like in the rest of the developed world, mostly because the market there actually is free.

Thats an extremely naive and false narrative.

I still stand by getting rid of the plant in favor of turning it into proper medication though. Its actually a separate issue as far as I'm concerned; the role of a medicinal and recreational drug shouldn't fall on the same substance. The dosage and when and how its released into the bloodstream through the digestive system will never be entirely reliable if you work with the plant as it is, especially if the growing is done illegally and therefore not held to any standards.

If its done illegally of course your not going to get consistent dosages, but otherwise theres no issue. The fact that its a plant doesnt mean anything, the transmission is entirely reliable and potency can be affirmed with a simple test. Regardless, any drug thats capable of alleviating symptoms is capable of being used recreationally; pot is useful in giving back your appetite, but people like to enjoy food high as well, it helps with depression but people will use it for the dopamine induced euphoria, its used to dull pain but similarly will be used to enhance sex and just make your body feel good. You cant actually separate the capacity to alleviate symptoms from the capacity to use it for your own independent pleasure.

The option of being able to use the stuff as medication with minimal recreational value will also completely sidestep the social stigmas of using marijuana as a medical necessity, as well as help clear up some of the legality issues for those that truly have a medical need for it.

Thats just a pipe dream as I've explained, far easier to simply combat existing social and legal impediments directly.

By the way, as for the increased lung capacity, you get that from smoking anything, tobacco included. While the capacity to store air increases, the actual ability to diffuse oxygen is reduced due to emphysema (damage to the lung's micro-structure) that you get by inhaling enough smoke of any kind. Hardly relevant for medicinal purposes though, because as mentioned, there are other ways to ingest the stuff.

Either way studies havent shown any link between smoking pot and damage to the lungs.

Edit: As far as your general thrust of replacing natural thc with a synthetic alternative, its currently medically impossible to make an engineered thc molecule and a naturally occurring thc molecule identical. Process matters in the formation of things.

[Roma_Victrix]

Thats an extremely naive and false narrative.
If its done illegally of course your not going to get consistent dosages, but otherwise theres no issue. The fact that its a plant doesnt mean anything, the transmission is entirely reliable and potency can be affirmed with a simple test. Regardless, any drug thats capable of alleviating symptoms is capable of being used recreationally; pot is useful in giving back your appetite, but people like to enjoy food high as well, it helps with depression but people will use it for the dopamine induced euphoria, its used to dull pain but similarly will be used to enhance sex and just make your body feel good. You cant actually separate the capacity to alleviate symptoms from the capacity to use it for your own independent pleasure. Thats just a pipe dream as I've explained, far easier to simply combat existing social and legal impediments directly.

Or have in place the same laws that prohibit the use of alcohol or opioid drug use in certain circumstances like driving an automobile. People should get fired from their jobs for showing up to work high just the same way they'd get fired for boozing too much the night before and showing up to work drunk. On top of that, a mother should perhaps never smoke or eat marijuana while pregnant, just like with alcohol (although I haven't seen any studies on the effects of marijuana on a fetus; don't know if such studies exist).

Either way studies havent shown any link between smoking pot and damage to the lungs.

Edit: As far as your general thrust of replacing natural thc with a synthetic alternative, its currently medically impossible to make an engineered thc molecule and a naturally occurring thc molecule identical. Process matters in the formation of things.

To be on the safe side, it's probably best just to eat and ingest medically prescribed marijuana (by adding it as an herb to foods like pizza) than to smoke it. There's also medical cannabis oil that I keep hearing about.

[paleologos]

I think we should be protecting our youth.



Though, I'm going to have to leave that to you guys, I need to find the motivation to finish reading my self-motivation book.

But first I have to make some...



...spinach pie.

No, seriously, it is spinach pie.

[Squiggle]

To be on the safe side, it's probably best just to eat and ingest medically prescribed marijuana (by adding it as an herb to foods like pizza) than to smoke it. There's also medical cannabis oil that I keep hearing about.

Edibles last longer anyway, so as an actual prescription they're probably just outright the most effective, yeah.