UK Vote on Fox Hunting Postponed Following SNP Opposition

[removeduser_487563287433]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33520547

Fox hunting with dogs has been banned in the UK since Tony Blair's Government. The tradition is associated with the upper classes and practiced mostly in England. At the time of the debate the Countryside Alliance, a group opposed to the ban, marched 400,000 strong in London - at time the largest protest in UK history. It has since been surpassed only by the march against the Iraq War.

The most recent General Election delivered the UK's first Conservative majority Government for 18 years, on a manifesto that included a promise to bring back the practice. The Scottish Nationalist Party also took almost every seat in Scotland.

Separately, the centrally governed UK has a political issue called the West Lothian Question, where Scottish MPs can vote in Westminster on issues that effect England, but English MPs are not permitted to vote on issues that effect Scotland.

This came into play last week when Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP since their defeat in the Scottish Independence Referendum, said she would not prevent SNP MPs from voting on English matters:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496575

And the first vote that is in this category? Fox hunting. Today the SNP has u-turned and said it will oppose a repeal of the ban, even though it has no effect in Scotland. Without sufficient majority to win the vote - the Government has now postponed it.

Firstly - I have no strong opinions on fox hunting at all. I personally don't care whether it's banned or not - I don't care enough about the practice to have it banned, but I am certainly never going to engage in the activity myself and wouldn't fight a ban. I can see the strength of the arguments on both sides.

Secondly - this is terrible behaviour from the SNP but politically it demonstrates they are a huge force. I don't think the SNP can morally justify this action when Scotland does enjoy the same privileges from England, but it is a characteristically brilliant political move from the SNP who will only gain ground in the constituency from it. It also demonstrates a huge problem - what happens when the vote is about English hospital funding?

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

The SNP will no doubt keep those in England who expressed affection towards them in their orbit by moves such as this; Green Party voters especially - they seemed to form quite the makeshift alliance along with Plaid Cymru. It seems they are offering the representation that Green, and indeed Labour voters, were denied. Given how horribly skewered the results were due to the electoral system, I don't entirely blame them. The rest of Britain begged them to stay, so we should accept what that means.

Anyway, I honestly don't feel particularly strongly on the subject, although I'd rather the ban remain in place than see it repealed, but I think the Conservative Party should get it's agenda together. Nothing has prompted this to become an issue, and it had basically died out as far as I'm aware, I know the Conservatives are trying to appeal to their core vote, but really, there are better things to do...

[caratacus]

I am against fox hunting and thought this move by Cameron so quickly after forming a government was very distasteful, as it was making an issue of animal cruelty a political one.

What is has also done is play right into the hands of the SNP (again!!). Its portrayed them as defenders against animal cruelty as well as against a party made up of English elite, to their Scottish constituents, for which fox hunting has precious little support.

Mr Cameron surely is the best ally the SNP have and the worst enemy to Britain's fox population.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I am against fox hunting and thought this move by Cameron so quickly after forming a government was very distasteful, as it was making an issue of animal cruelty a political one.

What is has also done is play right into the hands of the SNP (again!!). Its portrayed them as defenders against animal cruelty as well as against a party made up of English elite, to their Scottish constituents, for which fox hunting has precious little support.

Mr Cameron surely is the best ally the SNP have and the worst enemy to Britain's fox population.

It is a political issue? It's thought of so much that the second largest march in UK history was against this ban. It's totally a political issue and Cameron's been voted to a majority on a platform that explicitly included repealing this in their manifesto. How you can claim this isn't political is bewildering to me.

[Jom]

I'm glad that the SNP have opposed it, albeit for ostensibly the wrong reasons. You could make the argument that opposition to fox hunting is primarily a moral issue and that the SNP are right to oppose animal cruelty in any form whether it takes place in England or Scotland, as Great Britain would end up being tarred with the same brush of still allowing a blood "sport" to exist.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I'm glad that the SNP have opposed it, albeit for ostensibly the wrong reasons. You could make the argument that opposition to fox hunting is primarily a moral issue and that the SNP are right to oppose animal cruelty in any form whether it takes place in England or Scotland, as Great Britain would end up being tarred with the same brush of still allowing a blood "sport" to exist.

Which would be great, had the SNP not explicitly said they just want to take a punch at the Tories:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-33516713

"Angus Robertson, leader of the group, said the party wanted to send a message to the Conservative government about the narrowness of its majority."

[6th Vigil]

This move by the SNP only shows us what we've got to expect for the next five years which is increasing SNP interference in English only matters simply because it is the most politically effective move for them. By voting against the alteration of the Fox Hunting bill they're winning the support of left leaning voters in the UK while also alienating increasingly large numbers of English voters. Solidifying their support base while exacerbating the divisions within the UK home nations. It's a win-win for the SNP.

I'm personally in favour of an English Parliament or Regional assemblies to avoid these problems in the future but I don't think it'll happen so we'll be stuck with these stop gap measures like EVEL, if that gets through, which won't solve any of the acrimony between Scotland and rUK.

[caratacus]

It is a political issue? It's thought of so much that the second largest march in UK history was against this ban. It's totally a political issue and Cameron's been voted to a majority on a platform that explicitly included repealing this in their manifesto. How you can claim this isn't political is bewildering to me.

I'm sorry you believe chasing a small mammal around the countryside and tearing it to pieces with dogs is a political issue!? I and many others think it is an issue about animal cruelty.

An amendment to the current act, should only be debated in the House when the facts are fully put to members relating to the issue of cruelty. This is a rushed through bill which is entirely politically motivated and has no study basis whatsoever.

[Jom]

Which would be great, had the SNP not explicitly said they just want to take a punch at the Tories:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-33516713

"Angus Robertson, leader of the group, said the party wanted to send a message to the Conservative government about the narrowness of its majority."

Could you put that quotation in the OP? I think it's important for understanding the SNP's motivation.

It is rather disconcerting that the wishes of 1.4m people can hold those of 11.3m effectively to ransom. It would be interesting to know how many people were swayed to vote Conservative because of the promise to reintroduce fox hunting, as it strikes me as one of the cheapest forms of political point scoring/vote winning.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I'm sorry you believe chasing a small mammal around the countryside and tearing it to pieces with dogs is a political issue!? I and many others think it is an issue about animal cruelty.

An amendment to the current act, should only be debated in the House when the facts are fully put to members relating to the issue of cruelty. This is a rushed through bill which is entirely politically motivated and has no study basis whatsoever.

It is a political issue, it's a part of referendums, the SNP are using it to demonstrate Tory Parliamentary weakness, and people do political marches on the subject. Don't be emotive, it's pathetic.

[caratacus]

It is a political issue, it's a part of referendums, the SNP are using it to demonstrate Tory Parliamentary weakness, and people do political marches on the subject. Don't be emotive, it's pathetic.

No, your the one being pathetic ignoring the fact that is an animal cruelty issue. It is by nature emotive and by attempting to rush an amendment bill like this was highly inappropriate and has allowed the SNP to score political points against the Government in the eyes of the Scottish people.

[removeduser_487563287433]

No, your the one being pathetic ignoring the fact that is an animal cruelty issue. It is by nature emotive and by attempting to rush an amendment bill like this was highly inappropriate and has allowed the SNP to score political points against the Government in the eyes of the Scottish people.

I'm not ignoring it. But whether it represents animal cruelty or not doesn't change the fact it's a political issue. It's a totally irrelevant point.

[caratacus]

I'm not ignoring it. But whether it represents animal cruelty or not doesn't change the fact it's a political issue. It's a totally irrelevant point.

Once again, any bill discussed in Parliament is a political issue, but we are talking about one relating to animal cruelty. Issues regarding animal well being cannot be addressed without detailed studies relating to the practice that is debated. My point is that Cameron is pushed this bill to the front of parliament without any study being undertaken and as such is deeply flawed as a piece of legislation. It is entirely politically motivated, that is driven by opinion only.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Once again, any bill discussed in Parliament is a political issue, but we are talking about one relating to animal cruelty. Issues regarding animal well being cannot be addressed without detailed studies relating to the practice that is debated. My point is that Cameron is pushed this bill to the front of parliament without any study being undertaken and as such is deeply flawed as a piece of legislation. It is entirely politically motivated, that is driven by opinion only.

Ummmm no I made the thread and I assure you we are talking about the bill.

[caratacus]

Ummmm no I made the thread and I assure you we are talking about the bill.

A bill which the SNP planned to use to good effect as soon as it was announced . If Cameron thought that this was a fitting subject to illustrate to English people, the unfairness of Scottish MPs voting on English issues, he is sadly mistaken. Because unlike his Countryside Alliance freinds around him, this issue is not popular with a large number of the English public either. All that has happened here, is another miscalculation from a party that almost cost us the Union.

[Condottiere 40K]

I wonder if Cameron is using the issue as the van of some form of long range strategy, to bolster Conservative support in England, by slowly painting the SNP as obstructionists.
11159

[caratacus]

I wonder if Cameron is using the issue as the van of some form of long range strategy, to bolster Conservative support in England, by slowly painting the SNP as obstructionists.
11159

If it was then it was a foolish strategy, especially given the issue.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BBC website - A poll, conducted by ComRes for the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire show, asked 1,005 people if the practice "should or should not be made legal again?".
The telephone poll suggested 74% of people were against fox hunting being made legal, with 20% in favour. The rest said they did not know
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33507280

The fact that the bill for a "Free vote" has been withdrawn and won't be debated now because the SNP say that they will instruct their members to reject it, shows how foolish it was. It is a very sad day when animal welfare is treated as a political strategy by our parties. The amendment after all covers a practice in fox hunting, already allowed in Scotland!! what hypocrisy by the SNP.

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

74% against the repeal? How on earth can the Conservatives introduce this in light of those statistics?

[Comrade_Rory]

Good on the SNP.
The fact is, the majority of England is against fox hunting anyway. The posh English elite are throwing a tantrum because the Scottish are stopping the English from murdering innocent beings for fun (again) and it's the Scottish who are, even if it wasn't their goal, sticking up for the opinions of the common man in England.
It's a case of the Tories ignoring the common English but getting angry when the Scottish listen to them. At least, that's how it's going to look.

Quite frankly, I don't care how it's done, I just want this barbaric act of animal cruelty to be kept illegal. There's no place for it anymore.

[caratacus]

74% against the repeal? How on earth can the Conservatives introduce this in light of those statistics?

This is only a quick telephone poll with a small sample remember, but I think there are a lot more against fox hunting than in favour, with the majority probably uncaring (as always).

Also this amendment doesn't change the current ban on fox hunting. But hunts in England and Wales are able to flush out foxes for pest control purposes, using only two dogs, as long as the foxes are shot as quickly as possible. In Scotland an unlimited number of dogs can be used for this purpose. The bill was to allow the same number in England as Scotland. But without detailed knowledge of the matter, whose to say which is less hurtful to the fox, as there is little regulation going on during these hunts and inevitably the animal will be torn to shreds before being shot by a gun in any event.