Bretonnia - infantry

[Crociato78]

Bretonnia has the men-at-arms with sword and halberd (similar to pruning-hooks).


Wishing I can do the third unit men-at-arms with spears.


The animation with halberd in two hands is not comfortable with the large shield.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Oh fudge... I hate to have to do this, the units are truly beautiful...

You can't use a halberd with a shield *unless it is somehow strapped to your shoulder, which doesn't appear to be on the model*, especially not pavises. Halberds require both hands to be used effectively.
Take a look at the mod's Empire Halberdier unit. The team did it properly - the soldiers hold the halberd with both hands, while a shield is strapped to their shoulder. Also, if the shield is set that way, it shouldn't be too big.


I know I know, this is fantasy, but still, it bugs me.

Swordsmen are fine.

Sorry, but you should have told that to Games Workshop in the 90s. That's how the tabletop models of Bretonnian Men-At-Arms are designed, they use halberds like one handed spears. Is it realistic? Absolutely not. Neither are trolls and orcs. Bretonnia is a fantasy version of both sides of The Hundred Years' War (with the nobles like France and the peasants like England) combined with Arthurian myth. It's supposed to be absolutely ridiculous, on purpose. For these units to be changed from the fantasy versions to be more realistic, you might as well just play Stainless Steel.

Would you like for your head to really explode? Click here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[paradamed]

I agree. Realism should not be a factor here. This is warhammer guys. If you want realism you can play Stainless Steel.

[kelembribor21]

Those units represent Men-at Arms unit designed by Games Workshop , and in my opinion it's done exactly as represented in army book lore .

[Viva Espana!]

The men at arms are actually using their weapons two-handed in the artwork. Just two-handed -with a shield-. Also, the models appear to have more billhooks than halberds.

[Crociato78]

Those units represent Men-at Arms unit designed by Games Workshop , and in my opinion it's done exactly as represented in army book lore .

Yes, I agree with you. I have to find a way to have large shields with halberds two hands.


It should not become a mess graphically.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Keep them holding it one handed, in the spear and shield animation. That keeps it true to the tabletop models well enough without clipping. Otherwise you're looking at creating new animations. The really important thing is for them to behave appropriately on the battlefield, with their role mostly being to brace against the enemy to act as an anvil while the bowmen pepper them with arrows and the knights go around the flanks to act as the hammer. If they act like a spear/pike block, that works best.

But if you really want to try getting 2 handed animations working, you could try moving the shield further up the arm, so it's centered more around the elbow than by the hand, like in that 2nd picture.

[Crociato78]

I'll try!

[nahun]

I believe that to be the first units you do, textures and models are very good. They have a high level. Also closely they resemble the miniatures you have taught.

I will follow your work . I look forward to see how will the knights.

[paradamed]

Those units represent Men-at Arms unit designed by Games Workshop , and in my opinion it's done exactly as represented in army book lore .

This is the coolest representation of them for sure. I like the fact they wear "skirts"and one thing I like very much are those wooden greaves.

[Vette]

Absolutly love the second version,just with longer "skirts" if posible.I would not give them phalanx formation tho,would just leave them with standard "spear and shield" mod.

Could you redo cavalry as well,to be more in line with red blue and gold,insted of kinda odd color scheme we have atm.Also Kahvi has some insanely good bardings for horses he uses in SS7 I think.The ones he uses for knights hospitaler and templars combined would be amazing with blue red and gold color scheme.
Ok I will stop my wet dreams...

But PLZ MAKE THEM !!!

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I agree with them working as spear and shield. They're a low end unit, and meant to try to hold the line against anything and get murdered in the process while the knights take the flanks. The shields should only be the big pavises, as that's their real trademark, leaving the heater shields to the knights. In fact, I'm sure Bretonnia would have a Man-At-Arms whipped for touching a shield that resembles a knight's shield, knowing their lore.

Also for making the halberds look more like a mash of billhooks and guisarmes, it's an easy enough job, I could do it in milkshape if you'd like, as was said earlier. Just PM me your halberd model and I'll give it some variety.

And the beautiful horses, yes. The cavalry are mostly done well, but matching the colors up to the Men-At-Arms better, using the better horse models, and maybe adding in some special characters would be great.

Right now one problem with the mod is the space for more units is getting smaller, but fixing up Bretonnia could take as little as 5-6 slots, which is very worth it. And remember, special characters don't take a slot, so Green Knight, Morrigan La Fey, Louen Leoncoeur, and so on can be done.

[Crociato78]

Absolutly love the second version,just with longer "skirts" if posible.I would not give them phalanx formation tho,would just leave them with standard "spear and shield" mod.

Could you redo cavalry as well,to be more in line with red blue and gold,insted of kinda odd color scheme we have atm.Also Kahvi has some insanely good bardings for horses he uses in SS7 I think.The ones he uses for knights hospitaler and templars combined would be amazing with blue red and gold color scheme.
Ok I will stop my wet dreams...

But PLZ MAKE THEM !!!

Hello!


I'm going to change the model to the Men-at-arms, I try to do it with more skirts.


Even the cavalry would be edited. It would be to use the horses of "Rusichi Total War" (those Marka_Horse). How the mod "Westeros Total War 1.0".

[Crociato78]

I agree with them working as spear and shield. They're a low end unit, and meant to try to hold the line against anything and get murdered in the process while the knights take the flanks. The shields should only be the big pavises, as that's their real trademark, leaving the heater shields to the knights. In fact, I'm sure Bretonnia would have a Man-At-Arms whipped for touching a shield that resembles a knight's shield, knowing their lore.

Also for making the halberds look more like a mash of billhooks and guisarmes, it's an easy enough job, I could do it in milkshape if you'd like, as was said earlier. Just PM me your halberd model and I'll give it some variety.

And the beautiful horses, yes. The cavalry are mostly done well, but matching the colors up to the Men-At-Arms better, using the better horse models, and maybe adding in some special characters would be great.

Right now one problem with the mod is the space for more units is getting smaller, but fixing up Bretonnia could take as little as 5-6 slots, which is very worth it. And remember, special characters don't take a slot, so Green Knight, Morrigan La Fey, Louen Leoncoeur, and so on can be done.

Hello!


Ok, you can do the halberds similar to billhooks.


Are the halberdiers of the Empire, you are in the mod 1.5.1.

[Rad]

Sorry, but you should have told that to Games Workshop in the 90s. That's how the tabletop models of Bretonnian Men-At-Arms are designed, they use halberds like one handed spears. Is it realistic? Absolutely not. Neither are trolls and orcs. Bretonnia is a fantasy version of both sides of The Hundred Years' War (with the nobles like France and the peasants like England) combined with Arthurian myth. It's supposed to be absolutely ridiculous, on purpose. For these units to be changed from the fantasy versions to be more realistic, you might as well just play Stainless Steel.

Would you like for your head to really explode? Click here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Completely agree with you, it's fantasy. All the peasants go to the gym with Arnold, while the chickens are fed with steroids.

I've recently started doing medieval reenactment, and actually covering the Hundred Years' War time period... realism got the better of me.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Completely agree with you, it's fantasy. All the peasants go to the gym with Arnold, while the chickens are fed with steroids.

I've recently started doing medieval reenactment, and actually covering the Hundred Years' War time period... realism got the better of me.

Yeah, when things are claiming realism and do this it's a pet peeve. But Warhammer was made as a tongue in cheek version. If it was claiming to be a Hundred Years' War wargame, then yeah, no way. Never mind that the glorious pride of the French knights were the Gendarmes, which roughly translates to... Men-At-Arms.

[Rad]

Well, Men-At-Arms is a term used incorrectly nowadays. It was originally used to describe a heavily armored cavalryman. Most heavily armored cavalrymen were knights. Not all of them, some were mercenaries or members of a noble's retinue...
Basically, if you have heavy armor and a horse, you're a Man-At-Arms, regardless of your social rank. However, nobles were more easily able to afford the costs of said items, so most Men-At-Arms would have been nobles.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Well, Men-At-Arms is a term used incorrectly nowadays. It was originally used to describe a heavily armored cavalryman. Most heavily armored cavalrymen were knights. Not all of them, some were mercenaries or members of a noble's retinue...
Basically, if you have heavy armor and a horse, you're a Man-At-Arms, regardless of your social rank. However, nobles were more easily able to afford the costs of said items, so most Men-At-Arms would have been nobles.

Yep, and in Warhammer Fantasy, Men-At-Arms are the peasant militia that are granted a shield and sent off to die on foot.

[Vette]

Bretonnian peasants are violated,represed,inbred and poorly armed bunch used only as a shield for their "betters".Would I want that realism in my RoDG hmmm?NO!
I want them to look very nice,like the rest of the army.I have all the Bretonnian models and they look absolutly gorgeous.At a same time Bretonnia has realy cool army composition for Total War.Problem atm is we have only 2 units of not so good looking knights.With Men-At-Arms,bowmen and siege,charging and grinding cavalry,they would have been amazing army to play with.Chargeing cavarly is already in the game and Crociato78 will be making the Men-At-Arms.Only thing missing is grinding cavalry.Questing knights with greatweapon are just that.

Bretonnia is by far my favorite faction in Warhammer Fantasy,cant wait for full army...

[Crociato78]

I would love a team that creates a campaign map of the old world.