Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

  1. #1

    Default Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    So Ive been playing my first game a Rhovanian and my initial years in this campaign I have covered in a post on another topic (link: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14595577)

    To continue my post above I just wanted to add that my invasion of Dale proper was a disaster. Whilst the Dale forces were a piece of cake my armies were quite literally massacred by the Dwarves who had thus far been quite bystanders in the whole conflict. I was under the impression that they would not intervene in our conflict due to their lack of activity (which is quite characeristic of Dwarves, they couldnt care less what happened in the outside world as long as their own mountain kingdoms were thriving). However whilst laying siege to Dale my full capacity army was attacked from behind and literally massacred by a Dwarf army half mine size.

    The only Rhovanian units who were able to do any damage were the General bodyguards. The spearmen or cavalry however were a piece of cake for the Dwarish infantry. So my question is How Do you Deal with the Dwarves? I get that they should be overpowered given that their settlements are spread out and their numbers few but the pain I had to go through witnissing my army and Crown Prince getting cut into pieces whilst the Dwarish army was practically untouched was too much

    So any tips on how to damage Dwarwish army's?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    I think you need to adopt a nomad-like play style and use hit and run tactics. Also, use lots of missiles, especially javelins. As a Dwarf player, I found that mass archers and javelineers can be a real problem, especially if they outnumber you. If possible, get AP units (heavy axemen and the like). Dunno if it's possible to hire Dorwinion Halberdiers as Rhovanion.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    I'd second Athanaric's advice and recommend javelins. Your humble spear-throwers are easily available and offer good value for the money. They should be able to keep well away from Dwarven units while throwing their spears (though I wouldn't trust the Skirmish function - you'll probably want to micro them yourself).

    If possible, use them in tandem with your cavalry, especially cav with a high charge value. You've already found that your BG unit is effective, so now you have to make opportunities on the battlefield to do that repeatedly. A good way is to get an enemy unit in between a jav unit and a cav unit, and charge with your cav while the foe is going after your other unit. When your horses take a few losses, pull out and repeat.

    This strategy requires a lot of micromanagement, since you'll want to pull apart the enemy army and attack detached units one at a time. It also requires fairly open terrain (for your successful cav charges).

    Note that this advice is largely theoretical, as I've rarely faced the Dwarves in battle. Usually you just don't need to. But I'm very pleased that they attacked you as you were besieging Dale - it's just the sort of thing we want to see in the mod, given the relationship between Dale and the Dwarves. (We offer your king our deepest condolences, of course)
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    Exploit the fact that the dwarves are really slow to isolate their units and take them out with all your forces, one by one. missiles are also really good, especially if you can flank them.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    What do you mean by "slow to isolate their units"? Do you mean slow to support isolated units?

    Like I said, I almost never fight those guys (or the Elves). Though I imagine that will change when I get around to playing Adunabar again. Then it'll be kill 'em all, let Morgoth sort 'em out.
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

  6. #6
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Staddle
    Posts
    6,923

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    Read his sentence again with a comma after the word slow Count.

    As for fighting the dwarves or the elves, for all their individual superiority they can ill-afford losses and any sort of sustained conflict will weaken them a lot faster than it will weaken you. We would probably expect you to lose the first battle against them, but if you keep up the pressure you should sooner or later be able to gain the upper hand.
    Last edited by webba84; July 11, 2015 at 06:59 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    lol, yes, makes sense now! No comma would be needed, I think, but there is that ambiguity there.

    Good point about the battle vs campaign attrition, too.
    One of the most sophisticated Total War modders ever developed...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    Dwarves are scary (Dude, have you seen the Wain-Bows on Huge setting?!), it's everything from their voice actor, magic-floating-catapults, unit cards, FM-portraits, and even in the text files. Did I mention freaking blunderbusses?

    Skin-deep, in the EDU, you can see armor-peircing weapons almost across the board, most of them already with high attack, and their defense can cruise above 30 before you even add skill or shield. Hell, look at their moral, everyone above miner would fight to the death with any half decent general nearby, most without. Looking for weaknesses here, the only thing that stands out is that most of their core units lack a shield. So it's as everyone says: missiles, AP preferably, and lots of 'em.

    If you dig as deep as their skeletons (desc_model_battle.txt) you'll find another racial advantage... man sized creatures are to a scale of roughly 1.0, give or take a tenth; Dwarves are scaled to 0.8 . What this means: Dwarves gain a numbers advantage in melee; if you have 5 men on the front line, there's six pissed of Dwarves with axes opposite.

    This leads to another weakness, however... "Fire Pot" artillery has a blast area of 2.5, if a man, front row, gets pegged right in the chest it's going to affect two men in all directions, that's at least ten bodies in the air every direct hit (we're not counting shells landing dead center of a formation, just front row).. You can send about fifteen short hairy men flying with the same shot.

    Honestly, the best tactic is to hide behind your walls and hope the think nobody's home. If they try to break in, target your own walls with seige weapons, and hope they don't knock on the front door..

  9. #9
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Staddle
    Posts
    6,923

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    FUBAR- has them pretty much sorted, though their animations do contain another fairly major disadvantage - they move slower than everyone else. Combined with their general lack of ranged units, and their complete lack of cavalry and this means your archers and skirmishers will have a field day with them while even your normal units can always disengage safely.

    Heavy cavalry charges can also be very effective against their rear (where defense skill doesn't count) but you better make sure it's a proper charge and not just running into them at full speed, because that won't end well.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    Therein lies the main purpose of Hireling escorts.. Someone has to catch those pesky Snaga. Though it is entertaining to watch a mob of archers being chased by a dozen Dwarves, who can just never quite catch up.

  11. #11
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ducatus Saxonia
    Posts
    1,335

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR- View Post
    If you dig as deep as their skeletons (desc_model_battle.txt) you'll find another racial advantage... man sized creatures are to a scale of roughly 1.0, give or take a tenth; Dwarves are scaled to 0.8 . What this means: Dwarves gain a numbers advantage in melee; if you have 5 men on the front line, there's six pissed of Dwarves with axes opposite.
    Isn't the "density" (I can't think of a better term) of a formation only dependent on the radii given in the EDU? IIRC the size of the model doesn't matter, it might only look weird if you have a particularly large unit and don't adjust its radius.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Dwarwish Massacres of Rhovanian armies

    Hmm, yess you're right about formation dimensions being the deciding factor; the above only applies directly to units engaged in melee, as they would all be pressing close as they can get .. Regardless, the same thinking applies to spacing as well. Man-sized spacing seems to vary from 1 - 1.4, while Dwarves start from 0.9 up to just under 1.2.

    As for radius, there's no way in hell units in DoM are using Vanilla radius of 0.4, particularly large units. I really do hate saying anything definitively, but I remember troops in Vanilla, and more recently EB, giving each other much less elbow-space during combat. DoM units all seem to respect each others personal bubble, improving combat dynamics, and preventing animations from intercepting each other when they swing great-axes around. Yet, look around the EDU, there's not one entry of Radius, or Height for that matter, for any of the units. Trolls have a really big bubble, but according to the EDU it's only supposed to be the default of 0.4...

    I'm not sure exactly where, but these perimeters are coded elsewhere, and it's not the only instance RTW has areas that will overwrite one another; you could have a real frustrating time changing the projectile sprite for siege weapons, if you only edit descr_projectiles_new.txt and don't tweak desc_engines.txt to match. Looking in the DMB, right at the top Aradan wrote the scale of various units, but it wasn't coded there...

    Nevermind everything in red... Taking a closer look at the DMB, there's a line for Scale... mystery solved.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •