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Thread: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

  1. #81

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version: 7 Home Premium 64-bit

    - CPU: AMD FX8350 4 GHz 8-core

    - RAM (memory): 16GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU) : Nvidia/Zotac

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: GTX770 2GB

    - Video driver version: 344.75 (from 2014/11/18)

    - Game shader version: Version 2

    - Additional info: Encountered twice, the only times I've encountered the creatures. Copy-paste w/ additional details from main MOS thread:

    I have encountered a CTD related to rebel wolves when playing as Eriador. The first is the wolf ambush on the road east of Amon Sul. I was ambushed, the battle loaded, the game ran fine until I hit "Start Battle", then it crashed. I reloaded the autosave, triggered the attack the same way and the second time it went fine. Didn't think much of it until a couple turns later. Gundabad had triggered some wolves to come out of hiding somewhere a bit southeast of Athilin. They appeared to not have suffered losses in battle though (so no AI ambush battle fought, I think). I decided to attack the wolves to remove them. I could deploy my troops etc., but when I hit Start Battle I got a CTD again. Reloading the game and trying again worked once more, and the wolves were killed with no problems this time.
    Last edited by ElvenKind; August 12, 2015 at 11:27 AM. Reason: added your driver version.

  2. #82

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version:
    Windows 10 Home, 64 bit

    - CPU:
    Intel i5-4440, 3.1 GHz

    - RAM (memory):
    8GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU) :
    Nvidia

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:
    GTX 980 Ti 6GB

    - Video driver version:

    - Game shader version:
    2

    - Additional info:
    I had the graphics at the highest settings. I was playing as the Silvan Elves (Woodland Realm) when the crashes occurred. I was facing spiders and as others have noted, the spider crashes were hit or miss and I could fight them when they were in larger armies with men/uruk-hai. However, the spider-only encounters resulted in crashes as soon as I clicked the 'start battle' button.

  3. #83
    alreadyded's Avatar Work up a #6 on 'em!
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Quote Originally Posted by Arathos View Post
    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version: 7 Home Premium 64-bit

    - CPU: AMD FX8350 4 GHz 8-core

    - RAM (memory): 16GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU) : Nvidia/Zotac

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: GTX770 2GB

    - Video driver version: 344.75 (from 2014/11/18)

    - Game shader version: Version 2

    - Additional info: Encountered twice, the only times I've encountered the creatures. Copy-paste w/ additional details from main MOS thread:

    I have encountered a CTD related to rebel wolves when playing as Eriador. The first is the wolf ambush on the road east of Amon Sul. I was ambushed, the battle loaded, the game ran fine until I hit "Start Battle", then it crashed. I reloaded the autosave, triggered the attack the same way and the second time it went fine. Didn't think much of it until a couple turns later. Gundabad had triggered some wolves to come out of hiding somewhere a bit southeast of Athilin. They appeared to not have suffered losses in battle though (so no AI ambush battle fought, I think). I decided to attack the wolves to remove them. I could deploy my troops etc., but when I hit Start Battle I got a CTD again. Reloading the game and trying again worked once more, and the wolves were killed with no problems this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaddon View Post
    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version:
    Windows 10 Home, 64 bit

    - CPU:
    Intel i5-4440, 3.1 GHz

    - RAM (memory):
    8GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU) :
    Nvidia

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:
    GTX 980 Ti 6GB

    - Video driver version:

    - Game shader version:
    2

    - Additional info:
    I had the graphics at the highest settings. I was playing as the Silvan Elves (Woodland Realm) when the crashes occurred. I was facing spiders and as others have noted, the spider crashes were hit or miss and I could fight them when they were in larger armies with men/uruk-hai. However, the spider-only encounters resulted in crashes as soon as I clicked the 'start battle' button.
    Does the battle adviser portrait go away on its own or do you have to click it to rid of it?

    Either way these sound like they are caused by the BAI wait timers but it could also be that the BAI was not added in correctly. I am not sure why or how the wait timers cause this but when they are too high, some being around 10 to 20 seconds, it may cause more strain on the game engine (from poor game coding or maybe just simple incompatibility with certain computer hardware/software). Possibly Win XP and 7 can cope with this better, where as vista/8+ either cannot or intentionally stop running the program (refuses it permission to access needed files for security reasons).
    Last edited by alreadyded; August 13, 2015 at 08:29 PM.

  4. #84

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    Does the battle adviser portrait go away on its own or do you have to click it to rid of it?
    I have advisors disabled, the only time they appear is for the settlement viewer script.

  5. #85
    Rafkos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Looks like it's something linked to system memory in all new WindowsOS. I did some tests on Shader 1 and Shader 2, with the first one enabled I was able to put twice as many spiders as with Shader 2. I think that the game runs out of memory for some reason, maybe the animation is not well optimized and leads to memory leak. Med2 uses two main redistributables: DirectX and Microsoft C++ 2005,2008, I'll try to look if there's a chance that moving from DirectX 11 to 9 will fix the problem.

    @edit
    Nope, it didn't work :/

    @edit 2
    I have found something interesting, when I decreased number of polygons in model from 5000 to 1000 I was able to get 5x more spiders in battle without any crashes. Also, changing texture size does not do anything.

  6. #86

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafkos View Post
    @edit 2
    I have found something interesting, when I decreased number of polygons in model from 5000 to 1000 I was able to get 5x more spiders in battle without any crashes. Also, changing texture size does not do anything.
    Very Interesting result in edit 2.
    I had looked at #of Model Tris. Checking my old notes, interestingly Gondor Yeoman (25,838) and some other newer Gondor units have much higher Tri counts than all the other models (sort files by file sizes to locate them). But no issues reported with these Gondor units.
    Ent had 11,817 tris.
    I'm also of the opinion that it's an OS handling of animations, including maybe the draw-call techno (but no time to do the legwork to see it through to completion at this time, AND I have Win7, so I can't really dig in either to test every tiny software tweak).
    (Just out of curiosity besides the DX9, and C++, do you also have net framework 3.5 installed? m2tw relies on it as well)

    Do you have time to elaborate?
    What number of spiders were you getting no crashes with? How many tests did you run? Which OS (8 or 10)?
    AND I don't suppose you have time etc to rebuild an animation and see if it works? Tall order I know

    One other place you may want to delve into (if you have not already) is the EDU (export_descr_unit.txt).
    You'll see that the Ents, Wolves and Spiders are all coded quite differently than the true elephants with the riders actually visible (Mumakil in TATW of course). Specifically look at Soldier entry vs Mount entry.

  7. #87
    Rafkos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    @up

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version: 8.1

    - CPU: Intel Core i5-4670

    - RAM (memory): 8GB

    - Video card (GPU) : GTX760

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: 2GB

    - Video driver version: newest 355.60

    - Game shader version: shader 2

    I will look at this today. Yes, I noticed that some other units have more polygons and do not crash, so all we know for sure is:
    - it's not a problem with model
    - it's not related to texture size
    - it's not caused by DirectX and other utilities (Tested various versions of Microsoft C++ and others)
    I think it may be that the animation is broken and it crashes on new OSs, but I will also look in export_descr_unit.txt, maybe it's something in there aswell as modeldb.

  8. #88
    Rafkos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    I have looked into various folders and files, found nothing in there I will look if changing the model to, for example, infantryman will fix crashing, if yes, then the only way to fix this is to remake the model itself.

    @edit2
    Hmm, weird, I've replaced the spider and Elephant_Crew3 models with another that works properly, the game crashed in exact same time. I will to a bit more investigation and let you know if it's an animation fault or not.

    @edit3
    Finally, I'm almost sure what caused this. It's because that new Microsoft C++ redistributables built in Win7, Win8, Win8.1, Win10 systems does not support some animations exceptions. I have removed all of them in control panel, but the game does still launch, that means something is still installed in windows folders. I will try to find a solution.

    @edit4
    I need a help with checking the animations files, I don't know how to open them

  9. #89

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Hi Rafkos!
    Wow. You're really digging into this issue

    (1) Didn't see confirmation either way, so wanted to check again: Do you have Net Framework 3.5 installed as well as per this link?
    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...vs.110%29.aspx
    NetFramework 3.5 was included with win7 (win7users are not having this issue in general AS experienced by Win 8 + users), and not with Win 8 onwards.
    (There is the odd Win7 and older user with a crash, but the manifestation and symptoms of the crash is quite different than Win 8 plus OS.)

    (2) Agreed. Model itself doesn't seem probable origin of cause.

    (3) Part of me worries that it's related to a OS software architectural change in procedural handling.
    For example, something along these lines to make Metro work properly (CTRL-F for "TIR") >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...-graphics.aspx

    (4) I wish I could provide you with an instant recipe for animation assistance.
    I can provide you though with these links:
    (i) (a) Starting Point - intro, tools used (Goat/Goal 1.1) >>> http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-MS3D-for-M2TW
    (b) Another intro with good bits (incl Milkshape vs 3DS Max if that's relevant for you)
    (c) another excellent resource to understand underlying mechanics>>> http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-of-Animations
    (ii) Eventually when repacking anims for the game (XIDX) >> start here and read through from there to understand technical twists and you'll see changelog of XIDX toolset along the way>> http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13726062
    (Important note: did not make time to test these, but I did enough reading that I feel fairly confident this should be the best and uptodate animation info on TWC.)
    IF ANYONE knows of better links, or better process, please share

  10. #90
    Rafkos's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Windows Features app says that I already have .NET framework 3.5, also when I click on dotNetFx35setup.exe nothing happens. Looks like there was a similar issue in EBII and they fixed it yesterday (it worked for me). I mean it had the same symptoms: crashing when clicked Start Battle etc, instant crash when too many units. I'm waiting for response from them

  11. #91
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafkos View Post
    Windows Features app says that I already have .NET framework 3.5, also when I click on dotNetFx35setup.exe nothing happens. Looks like there was a similar issue in EBII and they fixed it yesterday (it worked for me). I mean it had the same symptoms: crashing when clicked Start Battle etc, instant crash when too many units. I'm waiting for response from them
    Very interesting. Was one of the symptoms that it affected only a part of the players and others not at all?

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  12. #92

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version: Windows 10 64-bit

    - CPU: Intel i5-2500k @ 3.30ghz

    - RAM (memory): DDR5 8GB

    - Video card (GPU) : Nvidia

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: EVGA gta 770 @ 4GB VRAM

    - Video driver version: newest 355.60

    - Game shader version: 2

    - Additional info: Crashes only when clicking start battle. "Unexpected error" dialog pops up, task has to be killed in task manager. Happens with spiders, wolves, and balrogs. Spiders and wolves have invisible models on stratmap, although they do have a shadow of a man despite their invisibility.

  13. #93
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Quote Originally Posted by alpav View Post
    (..)Spiders and wolves have invisible models on stratmap, although they do have a shadow of a man despite their invisibility.
    Thanks.

    The invisible models are there on purpose. They are a feature of MOS 1.70 which I think you are playing.

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  14. #94

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Yes forgot to mention that I am playing MOS 1.70.

  15. #95
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Copied from the MOS thread as it might trigger some ideas:
    Quote Originally Posted by chmeemuora View Post
    I found a way to play with ents and spiders (for those that can start the battle) - i keep the camera very far from those type of units, i was able to finish all my battles afterwards...

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  16. #96

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version:
    Windows 8.1 64bit

    - CPU:
    AMD A8 6410

    - RAM (memory):
    6144 MB RAM (shared)

    - Video card (GPU) :
    AMD

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:
    AMD Radeon R5 Graphic 5351MB
    - Video driver version:
    2015.0622.2137.37044

    - Game shader version: 2


    - Additional info:

    So glad to see this thread, its exactly whats been bothering me in my latest campaign! Recently got back into playing Tatw again, with the addition of the most recent MOS mod. I usually run the bare minimal in the background, like VLC for some music.
    Ive started a campaign as the Silvan Elves and Im very sad that I can barely use my most precious ents I fought long and hard to reunite the woodland realm and now I want to reap the rewards dammit!

    I noticed crashes with spiders as well. The weird thing is the game doesnt always crash, for example, I recently had a siege battle against mordor, with some Ent units inside a fort. I tried reloading a few times cause it kept on crashing during or right after deployment. Just when I was about to give up ( I reloaded about 10 times) somehow the fight started and no ctd occured. I did have major lagg though, which struck me as weird cause my laptop handled larger battles with no problem at all.
    Im afraid Im not as gifted with modding or programming like most people here seem to be, but if there is anything I can do to help just let me know! Im anxious to see a solution for this...

  17. #97
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Thanks for the report.

    Sadly it seems we are not getting any closer to a solution for this annoying problem. It seems the only viable cause of action is to remodel the affected units, which I think alreadyded planned to do. I don't know if he is still at it though, nor if his work would be suited for other mods. That is if he is willing to share his work on this, which of course is entirely up to him to decide.

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  18. #98

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    - Crashes Yes/No: YES

    - Windows version: Windows 8.1 64-bit


    - CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5775C CPU @ 3.3GHz (8CPUs), ~3.3GHz

    - RAM (memory): 16384MB RAM DD3

    - Video card (GPU) : NVIDIA GeForce

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: GTX 980 Ti (6GB Dedicated Video Memory)

    - Video driver version: 355.98

    - Game shader version: Version 2

    - Additional info:
    Steam and 2-3 Chrome pages in the background while playing.

    Playing as the Silvan Elves, got crashes with spiders and just decided to avoid them until I could auto resolve them. Now that I have my own problems, the Ents I would like to use them propely.
    The crashes usually occur after I deploy and starts the battle, like 5 seconds after. Sometimes I can go 5 min into the battle without a crash and when I select the Ents unitcard it crashes.

    I also tried going to battle with just the Ents, first time it worked like a charm, no crash.
    But I did see something strange that never occured before a huge model in the middle of the battlefield for half a second and it looked like a gigantic stretched out piece of Ent, not the entire model just like, an arm or leg or something, very treeish, stretched out and wierd... Might be completly wrong as I said it only appreared for a short time and haven't seen it before or since, It was a hugh model and it was stretched out, that much is correct.

    The second attempt at a battle just nothing but the Ents, attacked a small mordor village, first time this happend, the battle didn't even start, it crashed as soon as I pressed 'Enter Battle' using dual-monitors and both started gettings black screens every 2-3 second before it finally crashed, took about 10 seconds to crash, never even saw the battlefield.

    Thats about as much as I can provide for the time being. Will keep trying with different Options.




  19. #99
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Sorry I don't have a report to give, but I too have had the game crash with Ents and spiders. However, by simply kicking the graphics down from "high" texture quality to "medium" texture quality, plus putting unit detail on "low", I have found the game can play with Ents or spiders and of course Sauron (the bigger the army he commands, including sometimes Mumakil on the same battlefield, the more likely my game will crash).

    After such battles are done, I just kick the graphics back up to the way they were before and enjoy the detailed eye candy once more.

  20. #100

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    i posted unit and place info about crash on MOS thread. Veteraan told me its probably spiders.

    - Crashes Yes/No: yes

    - Windows version: Windows 8.1 Single Language 64bit

    - CPU: Intel Core i5 3210M 2.5Ghz

    - RAM (memory): 8GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU) : Nvidia

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: Nvidia GeForce GT635M

    - Video driver version: 355.60

    - Game shader version: 2

    - Additional info: playing steam version

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