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Thread: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

  1. #181
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Vi-Riachi View Post

    *note* I have no idea which of these worked but these are the last three things I attempted after my last crash*
    1. (Like previously advised) I moved the entire M2TW folder outside program files so it sit at the top of my hard drive
    2. For both Kingdoms.exe and medieval2.exe I clicked "Change settings for all users" in the compatibility tab, set it to in Win98/ME, ticked "override high DPI Scaling" selected "system" in the drop down box, ticked "disable full screen optimizations" and ticked "run as administator"
    3. This is the interesting bit and the solution I think worked, when I looked at the "Medieval II Total War" folder it was set as "read only", I unticked this and allowed it to apply to all the folder and subfolders.
    Let's hope this will keep on working, at least for you. I have done some extensive testing of this myself, quite a while ago, but never found a setting, or combination of settings that kept the crashes from appearing. On some rare occasions, I managed to play about 10 consecutive battles without a crash though, only to see the crashes return in full force after that.

    As for your three points:

    1: I played TATW/MOS quite extensively and my TATW install location is never in the "program files" folder.
    2: I tried several compatibility settings, but perhaps not Win98/ME, so I might try that one just to be sure. I don't think I ever changed the DPI scaling like you described, so that is something I certainly will try.
    3: I'm pretty sure I don't have the MTWII and its subfolders to read only, but I'll check it just in case.

    Personally I'm not convinced that changing any settings will solve these crashes, although I must admit that I obviously also don't know what causes them. However, there are plenty of players that never encounter any of these crashes and it is very likely that most of them never changed any of the default settings to "achieve" that.


    There is some other news about this issue, by the way. I seems KuroGuroChan from the Third Age Reforged mod is busy finding a solution for this (at least the Ents) problem. Still a work in progress though, but very promising. As I understand it, it basically works by replacing the "Elephants model" on which the Ents are based, which seems to be the root of this "crashes problem" and replaces it with another model that does not cause these crashes. See: http://www.moddb.com/mods/third-age-.../ents#imagebox

    Not sure what this solution will do with the size of the Ents in battle though.

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  2. #182

    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Let's hope this will keep on working, at least for you. I have done some extensive testing of this myself, quite a while ago, but never found a setting, or combination of settings that kept the crashes from appearing. On some rare occasions, I managed to play about 10 consecutive battles without a crash though, only to see the crashes return in full force after that.
    So far so good, not had any other issues yet apart from random crashes which don't seem to be related to spiders/Ents etc. I'll update if this changes or not after a few games/battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    2: I tried several compatibility settings, but perhaps not Win98/ME, so I might try that one just to be sure. I don't think I ever changed the DPI scaling like you described, so that is something I certainly will try.
    I tried it with and without the compatibility settings I detailed, crashed without, stable with so not sure, it may just be my computer

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Personally I'm not convinced that changing any settings will solve these crashes, although I must admit that I obviously also don't know what causes them. However, there are plenty of players that never encounter any of these crashes and it is very likely that most of them never changed any of the default settings to "achieve" that.
    It's possible i'm just lucky, just seems odd after doing what I detailed that my crashes stopped, it may be just my computer or a combination of the other fixes I have attempted but reverting any of these changes brings the crashing back for me at battle start. Who knows, if it works for other then great until a more permanent fix.

  3. #183

    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Hey, just dowloaded third age and dac last week and played some isengard, crashed when ents attacked isengard. It crashed when i pointed camera to ents.

    Tried to delete geoghraphy and run in xp and win 7, disable daylight and stuff you find googling this. None of that worked.

    However i tried putting video settings ingame to low and it worked! Had sauron, ents, mumakils and spiders in battle.
    Continued twinkling for some time and found that none of other setting mattered except unticking reflections box. Other stuff i had almost maxed out.

    So if someone else googles this you should try that

    I would like to add this was with third age 3.2 (i tried to clean install so no dac)

  4. #184

    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    UPDATE: DAC 1.2 works too. Fought with mamluks and balrog in custom game.

    Attacked ents with rohan in campaign to test, ents kind of flashed in battle, some visual bug, but did not crash.

    So no spideys or wolves or sauron. Did not find them in custom battle?

    But yeah seems unticking reflections did the trick. Only running game in admin mode.

  5. #185
    nadalio's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    What about the security permissions tab for medieval folder? Does it affect something? I always tick everything to be sure.


    3. This is the interesting bit and the solution I think worked, when I looked at the "Medieval II Total War" folder it was set as "read only", I unticked this and allowed it to apply to all the folder and subfolders.
    I did the same but it returns always read only on windows 10 when i close the properties tab.

  6. #186
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    a solution for our problem?
    all credits to steveothree for bringing it to my attention
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15449373
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  7. #187
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by atthias View Post
    a solution for our problem?
    all credits to steveothree for bringing it to my attention
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15449373
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevothree View Post
    You guys should talk to the guys at Call of Warhammer beginning of the end times. They have found a way to make several single model units that are in their mod
    Is this relevant to "our problem", which would be crashes when playing battles with certain units present?

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  8. #188
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Is this relevant to "our problem", which would be crashes when playing battles with certain units present?
    yes since the COW team has ent [IIRC not sure] like models without crashing and balrog like stuff without crashing
    I had no problem on COW atleast while I have in TATW
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  9. #189

    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    How hard would it be to make these models with proper coding, or to remove them from the game altogether? I really enjoy this mod,and consider it one of, if not my favorite mods of all time, but I simply cannot get over banging my head against the wall after the fifth crash in a row fighting these things.

  10. #190

    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Its not an easy fix and required the animation to me modded. Basically elephants NEED the first bone to be bone_E_platform, the issue is med2.exe loads elephant first then the riders. Riders and rider sprites are rooted to the platform bone of the elephant skeleton so having this missing causes a glitch with the model/sprite(you might also notice a graphic artifact looking bug thing)
    In BOTET we fixed the issue by converting all the non elephant based anims to txt and changing the pelvis bone names manually on each anim in the set and on the model, seems to have fixed the issue. I hope this helps future modders make some cool elephant based monster units. Maybe the BOTET team will do a TUT on this if anyone would want one. Another note rider counts NEED to be consistant between descr_mount and edu also single units will need at least 3 riders I found 4 works the best. also the use of stat_stl in the edu helps with elephants resurrecting after battle, set this to the ammount of riders for one mount.

  11. #191
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomdoof2236 View Post
    Its not an easy fix and required the animation to me modded. Basically elephants NEED the first bone to be bone_E_platform, the issue is med2.exe loads elephant first then the riders. Riders and rider sprites are rooted to the platform bone of the elephant skeleton so having this missing causes a glitch with the model/sprite(you might also notice a graphic artifact looking bug thing)
    In BOTET we fixed the issue by converting all the non elephant based anims to txt and changing the pelvis bone names manually on each anim in the set and on the model, seems to have fixed the issue. I hope this helps future modders make some cool elephant based monster units. Maybe the BOTET team will do a TUT on this if anyone would want one. Another note rider counts NEED to be consistant between descr_mount and edu also single units will need at least 3 riders I found 4 works the best. also the use of stat_stl in the edu helps with elephants resurrecting after battle, set this to the ammount of riders for one mount.
    Thanks tomdoof2236, that is very useful info.

    I happened to contact the BOTET team myself not too long ago and got basically the same info you provided from WhiffOfGrapeshot. I'm waiting for some of my modding colleagues who are a bit more knowledgeable about this stuff to come up with some files I can test, to see if we can get this working also.
    Last edited by Veteraan; January 12, 2018 at 03:03 AM.

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  12. #192
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Thanks for input, tomdoof2236.

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  13. #193
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    thanks for the input tomdoof2236+rep
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  14. #194
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Any news/luck for a solid resolution to the issue?
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  15. #195
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Any news/luck for a solid resolution to the issue?
    Other than what tomdoof2236 mentioned HERE, there is no news. And I personally still don't understand why it is possible that a large part of the players doesn't have much trouble with the problematic units, if the cause of the problem is a "fault" in those units themselves.

    For me the situation has changed though. I recently did a major upgrade of my PC, which included a new motherboard, memory and going from an Intel CPU to an AMD CPU. This also meant reinstalling Windows 10. Since I have done this, I noticed that I have much less crashes when playing a battle with Ents, Wolves, Spiders and other Elephant based creatures. When it does crash, I usually can play the battle without problems on reload. This has made enough of a difference for me to allow playing the game with the Creatures present. I have no idea why this has changed though and somehow always expect the problem to return in full force.

    Of course I will not close this thread as there are plenty of players who still have to deal with the crashes. It does mean however that I can't really check any possible solutions for the crashes myself anymore.

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  16. #196

    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    If your game crashes while the battle is still loading then I don't know the cause, I never looked into it. Crashing while loading has to do with files/code, so that could be the animations, textures, models, or the coding for it. If COW stuff works for vista/8+ someone can send me the relevant unit files and I will check it out (I assume model and texture code are more likely the cause than animation code unless vanilla M2TW elephants cause a crash for you). Or post the end of a crash log with trace enabled when your game crashes. Or both.

    If your game crashes at the start of the battle, one solution is to change all the battle_wait timers as I did. But I did it for xp/win7 not vista/8+, and TATW doesn't have it for either really since the timers all vary dramatically in certain situations. I don't play vanilla though so I have no idea about crashing in vanilla.

    If it crashes during the battle only a log will tell you what it was.

    I personally don't have any issues with crashes so I am not about to go out of my way to fix it, but I'll enjoy looking into it if someone makes it convenient for me. No one has so far that I can remember.

    People with vista/8+ usually have a harder time installing mods too from what I have seen. Though it isn't directly relevant, it does make me want to blame Windows. Of course M2TW wasn't made for vista/8+ though so it is wrong to do so I think.
    Last edited by alreadyded; June 19, 2018 at 06:07 PM.

  17. #197
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    If your game crashes while the battle is still loading then I don't know the cause, I never looked into it. Crashing while loading has to do with files/code, so that could be the animations, textures, models, or the coding for it. If COW stuff works for vista/8+ someone can send me the relevant unit files and I will check it out (I assume model and texture code are more likely the cause than animation code unless vanilla M2TW elephants cause a crash for you). Or post the end of a crash log with trace enabled when your game crashes. Or both.

    If your game crashes at the start of the battle, one solution is to change all the battle_wait timers as I did. But I did it for xp/win7 not vista/8+, and TATW doesn't have it for either really since the timers all vary dramatically in certain situations. I don't play vanilla though so I have no idea about crashing in vanilla.

    If it crashes during the battle only a log will tell you what it was.

    I personally don't have any issues with crashes so I am not about to go out of my way to fix it, but I'll enjoy looking into it if someone makes it convenient for me. No one has so far that I can remember.

    People with vista/8+ usually have a harder time installing mods too from what I have seen. Though it isn't directly relevant, it does make me want to blame Windows. Of course M2TW wasn't made for vista/8+ though so it is wrong to do so I think.
    so you want COW battle models DB file and skeletons IXD (or DAT I do not now the right extenstion) files?
    I can give you those I think just not from the lastest version
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  18. #198
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    After playing a lot of battles for weeks now with Creatures being present, with only the occasional CTD happening, I now seem to be back where I was before I upgraded my hardware. Which is of course very disappointing. It looks like battles with wolves being present at least, now crash again so often that it becomes unplayable. Although I have thought hard about any changes made to my hard- and software, I can't think of anything that may have caused this. I will keep an eye on how things go on from here and try to find that what has caused the change for the worse, but I am not optimistic about succeeding.

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  19. #199

    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    After playing a lot of battles for weeks now with Creatures being present, with only the occasional CTD happening, I now seem to be back where I was before I upgraded my hardware. Which is of course very disappointing. It looks like battles with wolves being present at least, now crash again so often that it becomes unplayable. Although I have thought hard about any changes made to my hard- and software, I can't think of anything that may have caused this. I will keep an eye on how things go on from here and try to find that what has caused the change for the worse, but I am not optimistic about succeeding.
    I am a complete ignorant re computing, but my experience with a game that I love (HOMM IV) was that I had frequent CTDs even changing any possible compatibility option, I surfed the net to solve it and I read that if you have dual or quad core, you should unmark all the cores except for one, for this program. This did not solve the spiders, ents, mumakil... problem.

    But now I am experiencing frequent crashes with my new computer, W10 + quad core, I do this sometimes and it seems to reduce the number of crashes, but I am not positive. Just my two cents.

    The way to do is run the program, then access the Task Manager (can be difficult with the game running), go to the program, select go to details and then set affinity (I am trying to remember these names in English by memory, maybe they are not exact), then unmark all but one.

  20. #200
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    Thanks Jose.

    I am aware of the possibility to set the affinity of a process (game) to a specific core. IIRC you open the task manager, go directly to the detail tab, from there select the Kindoms.exe, right click on it and then select affinity. After that you can deselect the cores you do not want to use for the game, leaving only the one you do. In my case it would mean a lot of clicking, as I have 12 cores.

    Perhaps it helps, but it is extremely difficult to actually be sure of this indeed. The creature crashes have a tendency to differ quite strongly in making an appearance from playing session to playing session. Since I wrote the post you quoted, I have been able to finish quite a few battles with creatures again, but crashes did still happen (more often than what is common).
    Last edited by Veteraan; September 07, 2018 at 12:25 PM.

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