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Thread: Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

  1. #1
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Discussion about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes.

    As most of you probably know, there are a lot of people that are plagued by frequent crashes in battle when one or more of the following units are present in an army: Ents, Spiders, Wolves. Perhaps there are a few more as I have not played every TATW based mod, but these three units are the ones most people will encounter.

    Edit: Balrogs, Mumakil and Sauron units may crash too, especially when there are a lot of them present. Because these units are usually few in numbers, it seems battle crashes happen not that much when they are present in a battle.

    Various people have attempted to solve this annoying problem, but as far as I know nobody has succeeded. I would love to be wrong about this, so if there is somebody out there who does have a solid solution please don't hesitate to share it with us.

    What makes it so difficult to solve this problem is the way it manifests itself. As I already stated, some people are having crashes, others (probably the majority of players) never encounter problems with Ents, Spiders or Wolves.
    And that is not the only factor that complicates the search for what causes this. The players that experience crashes, usually don't always have them. Sometimes the battle crashes, sometimes not. Sometimes it's possible to play several battles without a crash and sometimes it just keeps crashing one time after another. Crashes can occur right at the beginning, or even before the battle screen has appeared, or during the battle itself. Finally sometimes the game can be closed after crashing by clicking OK in a windows error popup message and sometimes it's necessary to use the task manager to kill the Kingdom.exe process. It looks like it is a totally random thing, but maybe we just are unable to detect a pattern. This is were you (the players) can help.

    Edit 2016-08-18: As alreadyded so "charmingly" put it in this POST, it seems there is not much reason left for providing more of the same info already present in this thread. However, anybody who wants to discuss the problem and/or provide possible solutions is more than welcome to use this thread to post about it.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    2016-08-18: It is not necessary to post more reports about hard- and software.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    And this is how you can help: LET US KNOW THE HARD AND SOFTWARE SPECIFICATIONS WITH WHICH YOU PLAY. We are interested in feedback from players that have the crashes as well as people that do not have them. In fact it is very important to have a decent amount of data for both. So please help by by filling out the standard form which you can find below this text. Just copy it, paste it in your own post and enter your data. Hopefully there will be a lot of data to process, but when everybody provides the info in their own format, it will be very hard to keep track of it.

    - Crashes Yes/No:

    - Windows version:

    - CPU:

    - RAM (memory):

    - Video card (GPU) :

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:

    - Video driver version:

    - Game shader version:

    - Additional info:




    For those who might not know how to collect the necessary info this LINK may help.
    If you are unable to provide some of the info just leave it blank.

    Example and explanation:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes Meaning: You regularly have crashes in battles where Ents and/or Spiders and/or Wolves are present. (Wolves are not Wargs!)

    - Windows version: Win 8.1 64 pro Meaning: I have Windows 8.1, 64 bit, pro version. Example of another configuration: Win 7 32 home premium.

    - CPU: Intel I5 3570 3.4 GHz Meaning: I have an Intel I5 3570 which runs at a speed of 3.4 GHz. Example of another configuration: AMD FX-8350 Black Edition 4.0GHz

    - RAM (memory): 8 GB DDR3 Meaning: I have 8 Gigabytes of internal memory, type DDR3. Example of another configuration: 4 GB DDR2 (this would be an old system)

    - Video card (GPU) : Nvidea/Asus Meaning: I have a video card that is based on Nvidea architecture and made by Asus. Example of another configuration: AMD Radeon/Sapphire

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: GTX 560 TI 1 GB Meaning: My video card is a GTX 560 TI with 1 GB memory. Example of another configuration: R9 270X Toxic 8 GB (this would be an AMD architecture based card made by Sapphire)

    - Video driver version: 353.30 Meaning: The current video card driver installed on my system is 353.30. Example of another configuration: 14.501.1003 (AMD catalyst driver)

    - Game shader version: 2 Meaning: This is a setting in the Options/Video settings (advanced) menu of the game. Possible values are "1" or "2".

    - Additional info: I have multiple windows opened whilst playing and an Internet radio stream. Also the Asus smart doctor is always running. This is the place where you can add any info you think might be relevant.


    Update March 27th 2016:

    Many reports have been submitted to this thread, but sadly it has not yet provided any real clue as to what exactly is causing these crashes. Please keep those reports coming though. Even if they may not help, at least they show the seriousness of this problem.

    There is however a little good news to report in the form of a (crude) workaround to the problem, as posted by Ajpav

    How to manually remove a unit from the game
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajpav View Post
    This link shows you how to manually remove a unit from the game:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...unit-from-game

    A couple of pointers before you do this:
    1) Please use notepad++ for encoding purposes - its free and you can find it here: https://notepad-plus-plus.org/download/v6.9.html
    2) Please Make back-ups of all the documents you plan to edit prior to editing them
    (I cannot stress this enough!!! It will save you heartache later on if you mess up).


    Update April 7th 2016:

    alreadyded suggested that posting trace logs from when a crash has happened can help in determining what is causing this problem. So if you have such a log available, please include or add them to your post (use spoiler tags!). You can post the whole log, but the last to 100 lines should be sufficient. If you don't know how to enable trace in your logs, have a look at this LINK that shows you exactly what to do. You can use the "Additional info:" to post your logs.
    Logs can be found in the logs folder: ****\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\logs (this is the location in the non Steam version)
    2016-08-18: As alreadyded has stated he will not check this thread anymore, there is no reason to post logs, although you still may do so if you think it's useful of course.
    Last edited by Veteraan; August 17, 2016 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Added some units that also may crash because of this bug

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  2. #2
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE POSTING

    Reserved 1

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    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE POSTING

    I will kick this of myself.


    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version: Win 8.1 64 pro

    - CPU: Intel I5 3570 3.4 GHz

    - RAM (memory): 8 GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU): Nvidea/Asus Gigabyte

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: GTX 560 TI 1 GB GTX 960 2GB

    - Video driver version: 353.30

    - Game shader version: 2

    - Additional info: I have multiple windows opened whilst playing and an Internet radio stream. Also the Asus smart doctor is always running
    Last edited by Veteraan; July 18, 2015 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Upgraded GPU

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  4. #4
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE POSTING

    - Crashes Yes/No: No

    - Windows version: XP 32bit

    - CPU: Intel Core 2 6600 2.4GHz

    - RAM (memory): 3GB (DDR2?)

    - Video card (GPU): ?

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: ATI Radeon HD 4350, 1GB

    - Video driver version: 8.970.100.3000

    - Game shader version: 2

    - Additional info: Not Steam, DirectX 9.0c



    DirectX version might be a relevant thing to ask for.

  5. #5
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE POSTING

    Quote Originally Posted by Withwnar View Post
    DirectX version might be a relevant thing to ask for.

    - RAM (memory): 3GB (DDR2?)
    Yes, you are right. The reason It's not included is to keep the list as small as possible and easy to answer in the hope to get a lot of reactions.
    Everybody is very welcome to provide info about their DirectX version in the additional info tab, as you did.

    An Intel Core2 processor would indeed be combined with DDR2 RAM.
    Last edited by Veteraan; July 08, 2015 at 05:40 AM.

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  6. #6

    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Playing as Eriador, turn 148

    - Crashes Yes/No: 2 CTDs so far, nothing serious, but none concerning spiders and wolves; haven't met ents yet

    - Windows version: 7

    - CPU: quad core i5; 3,1 GHz

    - RAM (memory): 4 GB

    - Video card (GPU) :

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:
    GeForce Gtx 750 Ti

    - Video driver version: 347.88

    - Game shader version: 2

    - Additional info: Graphics maxed out, but disabled Antialising; no steam

    Most of all the M2TW mods I played were pretty stable, I only had massive problems with 1648 (every 3rd battle crashed)
    Last edited by Moritol; July 08, 2015 at 06:33 AM.
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    Vifarc's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    As most of you probably know, there are a lot of people that are plagued by frequent crashes in battle when one or more of the following units are present in an army: Ents, Spiders, Wolves. Perhaps there are a few more

    The players that experience crashes, usually don't always have them. Sometimes the battle crashes, sometimes not. Sometimes it's possible to play several battles without a crash and sometimes it just keeps crashing one time after another. Crashes can occur right at the beginning, or even before the battle screen has appeared, or during the battle itself. Finally sometimes the game can be closed after crashing by clicking OK in a windows error popup message and sometimes it's necessary to use the task manager to kill the Kingdom.exe process.
    Thanks! I thought I was alone and feared a "It's your bad mod/system/installation/download" answer.
    This bug is a reason why I almost no longer play TA (moded).


    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes, with the Spiders (I don't know with others with this last TA version)
    The battle begins, and very soon it crashes, if it must (some battles can be played to the end).

    -
    Windows version: Windows 8.1 64bits Pro.

    -
    CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz

    -
    RAM (memory): 8 Go DDR3(?)

    -
    Video card (GPU): AMD / (?)

    -
    Video card (GPU) type and memory: Radeon HD 7700 Series 1Go GDDR5
    (I don't remember what 77xx exactly)

    -
    Video driver version: Catalyst 13.251.9001.1001

    -
    Game shader version: 2 (to be verified)

    -
    Additional info:
    Running: Avira Internet Security, AMD Catalyst Control Center, HD Realtek audio manager
    Version of Med2TW: Box Med2 2 DVDs + Box Kd 1 DVD, then with no-dvd crack.
    Last edited by Vifarc; July 10, 2015 at 05:40 AM.
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    badass7's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes. Sometimes loading up a battle with ents or spiders will crash before loading, other times part way during the battle or not long after starting combat. I just played a small engagement against spiders with no crashes at all though, and have in the past occasionally with ents. Haven't encountered wolves yet. So when it does crash seems entirely random.

    - Windows version: Windows 8

    - CPU:Intel Core I7- 4700MQ 2.4GHZ

    - RAM (memory): 8GB

    - Video card (GPU) : Nvidia GTX 765m 2GB

    - Video driver version: 10.18.10.3621

    - Game shader version: 2

    - Additional info:

    -I am running a somewhat jury-rigged version of an older Steam version of Medieval 2. After that steam update totally broke the game for me (not just in terms of mods, totally broke - 00000xc7b error) I had to copy it from an old external hard drive backup and use a non-steam exe to get it to work. Vanilla Medieval 2 does not work but it's expansions do. I bought the CD version not too long ago and it wouldn't even install properly, so right now this is the only way for me to play Medieval 2. I still had the crashes when I was running the older version via Steam though.

    - Running a slightly custom MOS 1.7. Specifically -

    Removed Mordor Uruk armour upgrade model
    Changed Osgiliath Pikemen to Osgiliath Veterans (Clean) version
    Changed Faramir to Taro_M's Model. Also made rangers able to deploy stakes and some minor stat changes
    Changed Boromir to Tao_M's shielded model, with dismounted bodyguard, custom unit officers and some minor stat changes
    Changed look of Gondor dismounted bodyguard, citadel guard, mounted body guard and some minor stat changes

    Again like above, running older non-custom MOS (1.62) had the random crashes anyway,so I don't think it's related but though would put here anyway.

    -I have also experience the random crashing in other mods, notably Hyrule Total War and it's plethora of unique units. My only guess is perhaps it is something to do with the animations? Seeing as other large units like trolls and wargs work fine. That or possibly something related to sounds?
    Last edited by badass7; July 08, 2015 at 07:03 PM.

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    Annael Tallithiel's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes

    - Windows version: Windows 10 64 bit

    - CPU: Intel Pentium B950 2,1 GHz

    - RAM (memory): 4 GB

    - Video card (GPU) : NVIDIA

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: NVIDIA GeForce 610M 2 GB

    - Video driver version: 353.30 (Windows 10 driver)

    - Game shader version: 2.0

    - Additional info:
    Playing on 1366x768
    High details
    No Anti-Aliasing
    I don't have opened any other window while playing
    I must always kill kingdoms.exe proces with Task Manager
    Crashing with Ents, Wolves and Spiders too
    I don't have any other submod for MOS

    I'm glad that You're trying to fix it. Good luck !

  10. #10

    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    - Crashes Yes/No:Yes


    - Windows version:8.1 OEM


    - CPU: i5 [email protected] GHZ


    - RAM (memory):8 GB DDR3


    - Video card (GPU) :Nvidia


    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:EVGA GTX 760 Factory [email protected] with 2GB VRAM


    - Video driver version: 347.88


    - Game shader version:2


    - Additional info: Ents and spiders crash often but not every time. Often they will crash the first time but then work the second time when loading the game again, but not always. Wolves have crashed every time I've tried. I have tried playing with the video settings but have not detected differences in crashing probability. I also get crashes with creatures in other mods like PCP. If you have more questions feel free to ask me, and I hope you guys manage to fix this bug!

    Edit: Directx 11
    Last edited by johntait1; July 09, 2015 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Added Driectx version

  11. #11
    alreadyded's Avatar Work up a #6 on 'em!
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    What about Mumakil? Anyone get crashes with them?

  12. #12
    Civis
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    - Crashes Yes/No: Yes, about 65% of the time with spiders and ents, but wolves always seems to happen but when i reload and try again it usually stops. This problem is so weird holy ...

    - Windows version: Windows 8

    - CPU: Intel i7-3630QM 2.40GHz

    - RAM (memory): 8GB

    - Video card (GPU) : NVIDIA GeForce GT 630M

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:

    - Video driver version: 2.4 i think

    - Game shader version: idk tbh

    - Additional info: Honestly havent had much expirience with fighting ents, but spiders have always seemed to be about 60% chance of crash, on every version of TATW ive played, Except PCP. But i dont have much playtime on PCP compared to MOS, vanilla and Dac

  13. #13

    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    What about Mumakil? Anyone get crashes with them?
    Never had a crash with Mumakil

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    badass7's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    What about Mumakil? Anyone get crashes with them?
    Nope, not with the Mumakil. Sometimes they don't get onto the map properly as reinforcements and get stuck, but they have never crashed the game for me.

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    atthias's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Crashes Yes/No: yes whit wolves spiders sometimes ents no crashes

    - Windows version: windows 8.1 update 1 64 bits

    - CPU: AMD FX[tm]-8120 eight core processor 3,10 Ghz

    - RAM (memory): 8 GB

    - Video card (GPU) : AMD Radeon HD 7800 series

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory:
    AMD Radeon HD 7800 series memory 5888 MB memory

    - Video driver version:

    - Game shader version:

    - Additional info:
    greetings atthias
    Total War - Rise of Mordor

    Are you a 3D Environment and Character artist, or a Character Animator?
    If yes, then the Rise of Mordor team linked above is looking for you!

    DO you want some uints back in MOS 1.7 then install this mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...n-1-1-RELEASED
    it adds back units who are deleted from campaing in MOS 1.7
    namely the Winged swordsmen the Citadel guard archers and the gondor dismounted bodyguard.

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    Annael Tallithiel's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    What about Mumakil? Anyone get crashes with them?
    No, Mūmakil, Trolls and Nazgūl are ok for me

  17. #17
    ElvenKind's Avatar Enjoy your life!
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    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    - Crashes Yes/No: No: Played vanilla TAW 3.2, MOS, DaC, PCP. Never had an issue with these units involved ( Had issues in PCP, but with different types of units)

    - Windows version: Windows 7 Ultimate, Service Pack 1

    - CPU: MSI Laptop Intel Pentium P6000 Dual Core 1.87 GHz ( other desktop PC: Intel i5 760 Quad Core 2.8 GHz OC-ed to 3.5 GHz )

    - RAM (memory): laptop 4 GB DDR3, Desktop PC 8 GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU) : ATI Radeon ( laptop ), ASUS ( desktop PC )

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: ATI Radeon Mobility HD545V 512 MB DDR3 ( laptop ), NVidia ASUS GTS 450 1 GB DDR5

    - Video driver version: laptop 8.691.0.0, desktop currently unavailable

    - Game shader version: 2 on both setups

    - Additional info: Desktop PC was playing with Huge unit size and most of settings on max, laptop is playing on almost all video settings turned off or lowered to low or lowest due to poor old GPU, and unit size is small. Desktop PC had DropBox, Fraps, RealTempGT running in background, while laptop has only Fraps running in background, and sometimes even RealTempGT.



    Direct X: both settings Directx 11, but installed version 9 as well for some games.
    Last edited by ElvenKind; July 13, 2015 at 07:02 AM. Reason: More additional info.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: We need your help in collecting data about the ents, spiders and wolves crashes! please read the first post of this thread before replying

    Interesting. So far anyone with Win 8+ has crashes with spiders etc.
    Anyone with <Win8 does not.
    More user data would be most helpful!! Including those without crashes as per Vet's note in op!

    Here's mine:

    Crashes Yes/No: No

    - Windows version: Win 7 Home Premium 64bit Sp1 (DX11)

    - CPU: Intel I5 4570 3.2 GHz

    - RAM (memory): 16 GB DDR3

    - Video card (GPU): Nvidia/Gigabyte

    - Video card (GPU) type and memory: GTX 660 2 GB(DX11)

    - Video driver version: 344.48 & 344.75

    - Game shader version: 2

    - Additional info: offline, system processes streamlined to minimal, playing non-steam version (boxed set)


    @Alreadyded
    mumakils don't seem to be an issue.
    Maybe if anyone gets issues with Mumakils, they can add to their post??
    Last edited by twmatador; July 10, 2015 at 04:01 PM. Reason: format typo

  19. #19
    ElvenKind's Avatar Enjoy your life!
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Quote Originally Posted by badass7 View Post
    00000xc7b error
    If you are getting this error, I would suggest to download and
    install Microsoft Visual
    redistributable C++ 2005, 2008 or
    2010. Be sure to install 32 or 64 version, depends on your Windows architecture.

    If already installed, uninstall the
    existing one/ones and download and install the fresh one/ones. I would recommend to install them all. No harm done.

    Sorry for off topic.
    TATW Local Moderator
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    Start your own business, and enjoy it!

  20. #20
    badass7's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: WE NEED YOUR HELP IN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT THE ENTS, SPIDERS AND WOLVES CRASHES! PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenKind View Post
    If you are getting this error, I would suggest to download and
    install Microsoft Visual
    redistributable C++ 2005, 2008 or
    2010. Be sure to install 32 or 64 version, depends on your Windows architecture.

    If already installed, uninstall the
    existing one/ones and download and install the fresh one/ones. I would recommend to install them all. No harm done.

    Sorry for off topic.
    Thanks, unfortunately I've tried this many times (and various other fixes) to no avail. It does it for a handful of games, apparently many of them 64 bit but also a few older games like Neverwinter 2. I intend to look at it again at some point.


    OT:

    Interesting, as twmatador said, it so far seems to be those with Windows 8 and up that are having issues.

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