The historcial research thread

[Primergy]

You want to see a special unit in the mod? You found an error? Or you just want to share the best images from your latest reenactment?

Post it here!

[nonopo]

Awesome

I was looking at the FOTS tech tree and started to research some civil war techs and doctrines to overlay over the existing structure. Were you planning on implementing the tech tree and would that be useful ?

Also, I think I was mistaking modernism/ tradition mechanics with imperial / shogunate. Using the modernism/ tradition feature might be more complicated.

1. Using Imperial / Shogunate

- These traits are not faction dependent in FOTS / Faction can switch allegiance (Not sure the player can do that however)
- Keep modernism/ tradition mechanics that would play in well the context
- using agents to convert
- measure level of abolition/slavery
- Buildings and techs could impact levels

Only big issue is if the player's faction can't change its allegiance to one or the other (I would like to play the south but free the slaves )

2. Using Modernism / Tradition:

- The tech tree uses modernism to unlock new tech tiers/ Would require to remove feature
- Modernism (Abolition) has a negative impact on population/ Would affect negatively non slavery factions
- Buildings and techs could impact levels
- no way of converting a province to abolition (only except with tech and buildings) or measuring its level/ percentage.

Probably many things I'm forgetting but my beer is empty.

[Primergy]

Well, i think we can use both systems.

Imperial/Shogunate as "secessionists"/"unionists" (= religion of the population) and modernism/Tradition is then slavery/abolitionism. If you push the abandon the slavery (modernism) a lot of your planters will be quite unhappy ^^

[Murat ÖZCAN]

If you succeeded in solving two flags issue, could you use "white state flag" which was showed in Gods and Generals movie, for Georgia State? A white background and with a circular colorful portrait in the middle...

[nonopo]

Well, i think we can use both systems.

Imperial/Shogunate as "secessionists"/"unionists" (= religion of the population) and modernism/Tradition is then slavery/abolitionism. If you push the abandon the slavery (modernism) a lot of your planters will be quite unhappy ^^

Sounds good.

So are you keeping tech tree in the game ?

[NauDaModder]

A good tech would be like "Draft", or "ironclads" or "fine rifling." Just some ideas. Maybe even canned food, invented in the civil war.

[nonopo]

Cool suggestions.

I would add to that: "suspend habeas corpus" (reduce negative points from war) , "conscription" (more recruitment slots), "repeating rifles" (if possible to implement), "observation balloons" (more visibility on the battle/campaign map), "ironclad" , "medical/ nurse organizations" (faster replenishment), "emancipation" (more taxpayers or something), "colored regiments"

A lot of the native fots techs are relevant (Gatling gun and shell improvements) so they could just be a bit modified.

[Primergy]

good suggestions.

About the habeas corpus acts, i thought to do this via the dilemmas in s2.

[nonopo]

Great idea to use dilemmas, and can be used for different event types: censoring press, specific laws (prisoner exchange, confiscate private property "slaves",...)

Additional tech: "war news reporting" (+++ if winning battles, - if losing or high casualties)

I'm trying to find some economic and industrial reforms/techs of the period.

[Elmo Terry]

Another tech could be "military organization" giving bonuses to attrition resistance, campaign map speed and similar things. Corps, for instance, were not approved by the confederate congress until 1862. Early in the war, both union and confederate had a confusing system of general ranks, wich improved as new laws were passed to allow new ranks.

[brewereverett]

Lee used the 'wing' formation after the seven days. He put one under the command of James Longstreet the other under Thomas Jackson. They all shared the services of the Calvary led by J.E.B Stewart. He did not divide into corps until After Jacksons death at Chancellorsville in May 1863 right before the Gettysburg Campaign.

[Elmo Terry]

Lee used the 'wing' formation after the seven days. He put one under the command of James Longstreet the other under Thomas Jackson. They all shared the services of the Calvary led by J.E.B Stewart. He did not divide into corps until After Jacksons death at Chancellorsville in May 1863 right before the Gettysburg Campaign.

Indeed he used the wing organization, and so did Johnston. However, this was not ideal as to organization, as the rank of leutenant general did not exist, and a general's role in the army did not necessarily correspond to his rank. I must correct you a bit, as Lee divided his wings into corps already some time after Antietam, with Longstreet in command of the first corps and Jackson in command of the second corps. After Jackson's death, as you speak about, he organized the army into three corps, with the first still under Longstreet, the second under Ewell, and the third under Hill. Corps had been used before this three-corps organization, however.

[brewereverett]

There was a fourth corps under Richard Anderson that was formed on Oct 19 1864 but was merged with the II corps on April 8 1865. The ranks of generals were General, Lieutenant General, Major General,Brigadier General. They all used the same insignia regardless. The only exception was Lee who wore the insignia of a Colonel. Button groupings were the only visible difference.

[nordherogaming]

Hi, my great great great uncle was colonel of the 4th TN cavalry CSA and was about to be promoted to Nathan Forrest's former brigade. So I would like to see the 4th TN cavalry because there are many accounts of James W. Starnes being a brilliant mind so I still think it would be good of having the 4th TN cav. I'm surprised this wasn't in the ACW mod for ETW, but the 1st TN was one of the only CSA regiments to wear Hardee hats! It might have been a specific company but still it would be awesome to have diversity.

The 1st TN also earns a place in my book of an iconic American Civil War regiment, because they fought in pretty much every major battle in the Western theatre. They are also the 20th Maine of the West in my view because of their performance at the extreme right flank at the battle of Perryville.

The First Tennessee (Confederate) Regiment was raised in Middle Tennessee, in April, 1861, immediately after the fall of Sumter, and was organized with George Maney as colonel, and was, July 0, transferred to Virginia, where, with the Seventh and Fourteenth Regiments, it was brigaded under Gen. Anderson. The trip to Mingo Flats was the first hardship, and near Cheat Pass the regiment was first under fire. It participated in the movement at Big Sewell Mountain, and prepared winter quarters at Huntersville, but December 8 moved to Winchester, and early in January, 1862, amid intense suffering and cold, moved to Romney; thence back to Winchester early in February. After the fall of Fort Donelson, the First was ordered to the command of Gen. A S Johnston. Part was left at Knoxville, and part joined Johnston. The latter, the left wing, participated in the battle of Shiloh on the second day, but the right wing had been detained for want of transportation. After Shiloh the wings were reunited and late in April the First was reorganized, H R Field becoming colonel, vice Maney promoted. Hawkins' battalion was added to the regiment as Company L. The First was in Maney's brigade of Cheatham's division. July 11, 1862, it left Tupelo, and via Chattanooga moved into Kentucky, reaching Harrodsburg October 6. It fought on the extreme right at Perryville, doing gallant service and losing over one-half its men killed and wounded. It captured four twelve pound guns and had fifty men killed. It retreated south with Bragg, and in December was consolidated with the Twenty-seventh Tennessee, and later was engaged in the battle of Murfreesboro, where it lost heavily. It moved south, and in September participated in the battle of Chickamauga with conspicuous daring. Late in November it was engaged in the battle of Missionary Ridge, and then retreated with the Confederate Army. From Dalton to Atlanta the regiment was constantly engaged in all the memorable movements of that campaign, fighting desperately at "Dead Angle." In front of the First were found 385 Federal dead. The First lost twenty-seven killed and wounded. It fought on the 20th and 22d of July, and at Jonesboro August 19 and 20. It moved north with Hood, fighting at Spring Hill, Franklin and Nashville, and then retreated, moving to North Carolina, where it participated at Bentonville, and finally surrendered April 26, 1865.

Here are flags: http://www.williamsongrays.com/Flags.htm

A much more in depth history of the 1st that I found interesting: http://www.williamsongrays.com/histo..._tennessee.htm

Uniforms (Some of these are unspecified): http://www.williamsongrays.com/histo..._tennessee.htm

Weapons: Springfield 1855 Rifle Type II (with a Maynard Priming System which allowed the soldier to not have to manually put a percussion cap on, taking way a step from the loading process. However, they did prove to be unreliable with mud and moisture), then around 1863 issued Springfield 1861s, then the later half P53 Pattern Enfields. Some officers did carry Colt Revolving Rifles by the way.

This is unrelevant but here are some really cool aritfacts: http://www.williamsongrays.com/1st_t..._artifacts.htm

Thanks and great job with the mod!

[Dave Strider]

I as a Mainer would of course love the 20th Maine to be included (as it is apt to be), but I would also like to submit for candidacy the 4th Maine, known as the "Iron 4th" for its tenacity in combat, and as the "Limerock Regiment" for the town of Rockland, from where 5 of its companies and its commanding officers came. (Rockland is a 45 minute drive from my house, it's known for having extensive limerock deposits in the hills surrounding it.)

The 4th served in most every major battle of the Eastern Theater up to Petersburg. At Bull Run, the 4th moved forward to engage while most of the Union army was moving back to withdraw; at Fredericksburg, the 4th suffered nearly 50% casualties, though not from being mowed down on Marye's Heights; they were a part of the Union force that crossed the creek at a lower place to attack Jackson's sector of the battlefield. When this attack collapsed and the Confederates counterattacked, the 4th held off the better part of an entire brigade on its own, with less than 200 men, and emerged from the battle with 100 men even. I've got an entire book about the 4th that a local historian wrote - "With our Faces to the Foe, a history of the 4th Maine Infantry in the War of the Rebellion." Very good read, if you can (somehow) pick up a copy I think you'd like it.

As for features you can put in - I don't exactly know the number of Clans that are in TW:S2, but my idea was something along this line. Make each "state" a separate faction, and have some scripted to join the Union and Confederacy (Empire/Shogunate), and have the border states be the flip-flop territory that could potentially join one or the other via scripted events. It would allow for some dynamic scenarios where potentially some western states joined the Confederacy, as well as allowing each state to have their own numbered regiments for that much more roleplay potential. (That or just give each state their own AoE infantry, "Maine Infantry", "Georgia Infantry", "Maryland Infantry", etc.)

Maybe have the Union as the Empire so that Washington could be the Imperial capital province? I believe FotS has an imperial capital province, right? Kind of like the Senate in Rome 1 or the Papal State in Medieval 2?

[Primergy]

My plan was that there won't be so many "famous" regiments to be recruitable in the campaign. I'm currently trying to get the "hero name" system into the FotS campaign. If this works, it will be possible to create recruitment regions (like maine) where you can recruit the "Maine Regiments". With the hero name system i can give those an ongoing numbering like "1st Maine Volunteer Infantry Regiment"/2nd Maine Volunteer etc. etc.

The idea is, that you "create" your own famous regiments. The regiments will start with poor stats, but depending on whats happeniing on the battlefield, they get better and better and suddenly you have your own elite regiments

But of course, some regiments and brigades will be recruitable, most likely via some sort of event, like the dilemmas in fots. "Some rich guy wants to support our cause and wants to recruit a regiment. Accept?" and if you say yes, you will be able to recruit Wade Hamptons Legion or so.

[Dave Strider]

I actually like that idea. Scourge of War: Gettysburg (if you've ever played it) has a system somewhat like that, where depending both on the regiment's leadership and the regiment's experience with different types of combat, their stats in accuracy, loading speed, bayonet/melee skill, etc increase. Is it possible to code some sort of "leadership trait" for regiments (or even generals leading armies)? Say "aggressive" or "defensive", where "aggressive" has increased morale, movement speed, and melee stats whereas "defensive" has faster reload speed and better accuracy?

[nordherogaming]

That sounds awesome! Also rivers in the American Civil War were extremely vital, especially the MS river. Is there a way that you could act like it's an ocean but still identical to the look of the river? Simply put it, can you enable fleets to ride on rivers? Also, maybe divide regions that are specifically revolved around portions of rivers? Such as Vicksburg- capture this region and you will get a portion of this amount of the MS river.

[Primergy]

I actually like that idea. Scourge of War: Gettysburg (if you've ever played it) has a system somewhat like that, where depending both on the regiment's leadership and the regiment's experience with different types of combat, their stats in accuracy, loading speed, bayonet/melee skill, etc increase. Is it possible to code some sort of "leadership trait" for regiments (or even generals leading armies)? Say "aggressive" or "defensive", where "aggressive" has increased morale, movement speed, and melee stats whereas "defensive" has faster reload speed and better accuracy?

For generals this should be possible via traits, but regiments I think only get boni on all their stats and only because of enemies killed.

That sounds awesome! Also rivers in the American Civil War were extremely vital, especially the MS river. Is there a way that you could act like it's an ocean but still identical to the look of the river? Simply put it, can you enable fleets to ride on rivers? Also, maybe divide regions that are specifically revolved around portions of rivers? Such as Vicksburg- capture this region and you will get a portion of this amount of the MS river.

Sure, thats not so hard, the rivers will be a bit broader then they should be though

[Dave Strider]

The topic of the map actually brought up another recommendation I had, but I have no clue if it's possible for modding - I'm assuming the campaign map is some sort of height map where below a certain level is water and above a certain level is mountain, etc. Is it possible to set the "base" landmass, if you like, as a detailed 2d topographical map of the eastern and middle United States and then "draw" mountain ranges, forests, rivers, lakes, etc. over where those features are on the map?

I have no clue if that even makes sense