Politeia tōn Hrōmaiōn (info and units)

[j.a.luna]

nikkosaiz will have armour upgrades for all units? you can explain history of all units?for example i dont know paramonai....For me is a awesome work, Congratulation for your hard work

[nikossaiz]

j.a.luna thenk you very much! when i find more time i will write my thoughts and descreptions abiut the units!

[achilles-91]

Thats how cataphracts and varangians should look like. Great job.

[Artorus Romulus Ericthonius]

A question for nikossaiz,

Are the officer and standard bearer models for the castrophylakes & Varangian Guard made by you? I only ask because I haven't seen them before.

[Lifthrasir]

Glad to see you found out with j.a.luna's help about the spoilers

Great job. Well done!

[nikossaiz]

they are not mine. are the officers that are on the current mod. The standard bearer is wonderfull, the officer is how they should be on the 7th century

[Artorus Romulus Ericthonius]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I agree, those models are wonderful, that was the reason for my asking.

[j.a.luna]

they are not mine. are the officers that are on the current mod. The standard bearer is wonderfull, the officer is how they should be on the 7th century

And you will change the officers also?they are unhistorical for XII-XIV centuries no?

[j.a.luna]

Nikkosaiz i saw this images about byzantine cavalry...you also will change the cavalry?about shitikon,cavalarii,pronoia,latinikon...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[nikossaiz]

As you can see in this first preview I have allready put some work into cavalry. Clivanarii or cataphractoi and stratiotes are allready explained in historical perspective and will not be changed by me furthermore. I have allready made pronoiarioi, cuman pronoiarioi, trapezountioi ( mounted archers from trebizond ) oikioi ( general bodyguards ) . I think mounted acritaes, archontopouloi and cavalarioi should be redrawn from the roster.

[j.a.luna]

Ok nikkosaiz, i hope the new images about cavalry,and for acritae,archontopoulai and cavalarioi are correct for the s.XII? Or you will redrawn or replace in a future? Also for mercenary as latinikon,alamanoi,siphonatores,gasmuli...you also change the models for your new roster?

[jurcek1987]

Great work but I hope you won't fall into the same trap as Claudillo and make upgraded models way too heavily armoured. His ug models look like walking tanks

[Alavaria]

Were they supposed to be walking tanks?

[nikossaiz]

Were they supposed to be walking tanks?

no, they supposed to wear the armor that was available in their time, considering the social stracture, their class, military and social position plus the fashion of their time. They were tanks though, beacause the stirrups allow them to take advantage of their weight and horses weight plus the momentum of their speed that led to a devastating charge.

[jurcek1987]

Sorry I wasn't clear, yeah the likes of scholarii and bodyguards should be tanks as they were hilariously well armoured with 4 layers of armour. My comment was meant for regular units like scoutatoi. Claudilo's ug2 look like dismouted cataphracts

[lilipouas]

Well every way you will write it people will accept it.
Latin origin languages have very limited ways to express the vocal way of writing of languages like the Hellenic one and its versions through the time.
If you would like to be kind of more accurate you should chose the name Politeia ton Romaeon (without too many h) simply because that was the way Middle Ages Romans called their state.
Here is the original writting of Leonis Imperatoris Tactica by Emperor Leon VI


The underlined sentences say the exact way they called their state.
"State of the Romans" Romaeon Politeia or Politeia ton Romeaon.

About the missunderstanding.
The Empire had numerus nations in its body.
Greeks
Armenians
Arabs
Jews
African tribes/nations
Persians
Caucasians
Bulgarians
Slavic people
Cappadocians
Isaurians
and many others.
All of them were STILL Roman Citizens. All citizens when they were healthy and Orthodox Christians could become Emperors.
Now...Nation by nation , people left the Empire because or border changes, religion changes and by choice.
Its a myth that nationalism created after the French revolution.
Infact western people of Germanic tribal origin "found" nationalism. But people in the old world knew what they were. Armenians knew for thousands of years that they were Armenians, Arabs, Persians and so on.
Greeks were THE LAST nation that NEVER LOST ITS ROMAN CITIZENSHIP to the end of the Empire's existance.
In fact modern Lybians can claim a Roman heritage from modern northern Italians because nothern Italians are of germanic origin that never HAD the Roman Citizenship.
So in conclusion. Greeks embraced hard the Roman citizenship in the stage to define them selves as Romioi (Romans) even today. For them Roman citizenship is separated from their Hellenic Nation ((Ethnos/ethnicity).
THE LAST ROMAN CITIZENS WERE THE GREEKS. In middle ages they are still known to Arabs as RUM (Romans) and the same time as Junan(Ionians aka Greeks).

EDIT:
I saw a recent video of an Egyptian Islamic Priest talking about the myth that Rums (Romans) will rise of their ashes and SAVE THE WORLD from the ultimate disaster.

it gets an H, not solely because of pronantiation purposes... the letter h in eyropena language is our "dassia" in old stile writing, that little marking before some letters... the words that had "dassia" always start with the letter H e.g. Hellas... the words starting in greek with the letter R had always "dassia" so if U want to be exactly accurate the correct way to write the name is "Hromaion" (i don't know how to put the dots U have in the name, they R correct thought because they represent the letter Omega - great O - which exist not in latin alhpabet)

[Lifthrasir]

So, if I get it right, ERE in game should be called Politeia tōn Hrōmaeōn or Politeia tōn Hrōmaiōn. Not sure which one is correct

[lilipouas]

I think the second would have been more accurate, it's ΄Ρωμαίων in Greek language, so closer must be the second...

[Lifthrasir]

Fine. So Politeia tōn Hrōmaiōn it will be
Thanks for your input

[nikossaiz]

As i wrote in a previous post

Peltasts -
the peltasts ( another archaic term ) in Komnenian era despite their name should have a role that had thyreoforoi on the roman era rather than that of the ancient peltasts. Because their equipment was better than the contophoroi but lighter than the scoutatoi, some historians believe that were some kind of medium infantry because they couldnt afford the more complete of the scoutatoi one. They wearing light chain armor under usually a padded one. also wearing wooden greaves and hand protection ( heropsela ) . they had javelins and a round shield, and a short spear or the paramerion sword ( one adged curved sword ) some could also had straight swords. I believe that the majority had spears, but because they were also an assaut unit in game that the spear have defensive bonuses, they have to have swords. the solution to give them better charge is not a solution at all since they change weapons from javelins to the second one really slow.

Another problem is that because the spears are secondary weapons if they get any defence bonus when a cavalry charge on to them, well i think they dont gate any.
i am about to choose which version of peltastes suites better to the game. I made two versions of them , one carrying swords ( paramerion and straight ones ) and the other shorter version of the contos that have the contophoroi. What are your opinios?

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