Some Ideas on Recruitment/Barracks

[Alexander91]

I think that with just a few changes the recruitment/barracks building change could make the game much more historically accurate and make the early-mid campaign much more interesting/balanced.

• Make higher tier units available earlier in the barracks building chain. This is especially true of the Successor/Hellenic factions. For example, I think that having non-reform elite units like the hypaspistai and Argyraspides available only after researching and building the Tier IV barracks and the last military tech is both ahistorical and way too time consuming. Historically, the Successor armies and the Hellenic factions would have had access to their most elite units at the beginning of the game time period. My suggestion would be to make elite units available at the Tier III barracks - you still need to research some techs and build up your barracks but at least you can use elite units in your army during early and mid game play.

• Use the Tier IV barracks as a replacement for all of the training buildings. I don’t really get the point of the training building chain. In my experience the training buildings produce “super soldiers” and totally unbalance the late game since you can create “recruitment provinces” that spit out silver chevron troops. My suggestion – scrap the training building chain – use the space for something else, perhaps a civic building – and give the Tier IV barracks some additional recruitment bonuses. That way the Tier IV barracks would act less as an elite unit producing building and more like an advanced military administration center.

• As a last point I just want to back up the earlier threads asking for more diversity in the Successor and Hellenic factions. I really hope the development team scraps the use of ‘generic’ units like the standard hoplites, pikemen and citizen cavalry. I think they really detract from the game and for once I would love to face city-specific hoplites or faction specific cavalry rather than the ‘generic’ units. I think this would really help to make wars against every faction seem really unique and compelling.

And that’s it! Sorry for the long post but I have been thinking about this for a while and wanted to share my thoughts with the community while 1.1 is still in development. I LOVE this mod and I really appreciate the amazing work the development team is doing!

[Dresden]

Having the training buildings being replaced by the tier 4 barracks is indeed a very interesting idea Something we should look into!

[KAM 2150]

As a training buildings hater I can agree with that

[Augustusng]

I've wanted to remove them for a while too, but I didn't remove them entirely since it would mess with the tech tree. We'd just have to figure out what to do with those technologies that don't do much except for enable those buildings.

[Alexander91]

As a training buildings hater I can agree with that

I'm glad to here I'm not the only training buildings hater

[Maetharin]

Love the idea, but I'd go even further, I'd get rid of technological research for barracks!
As compensation I'd make them costlier and slower to build, and the higher tiered they are the more mali they get
Maybe Tiers could be unlocked by Imperium lvl?

I've wanted to remove them for a while too, but I didn't remove them entirely since it would mess with the tech tree. We'd just have to figure out what to do with those technologies that don't do much except for enable those buildings.

These missing technologies could be replaced as Research of supply technology, as i have understood that we will get supply lines in 1.1, i think there should be a difference how far armies could advance into Enemy territory


I think all factions should be able to recruit their full pre reform core unit spectrum from turn 1 on, so maybe give them Tier IV barracks in, or make them available from all tiers

Best regards

PS: Would it be possible to bind recruitment per turn (additional recruitment slots?) to barrack tier? This and the xpboost, which i would apply to all tiers, but increased accordingly to tier, would motivate players to upgrade their barracks
EG.: I´d go as far as being able to recruit a whole legion in one turn as romans (with their faction bonus) with tier IV Barracks

[Dresden]

I've wanted to remove them for a while too, but I didn't remove them entirely since it would mess with the tech tree. We'd just have to figure out what to do with those technologies that don't do much except for enable those buildings.

Indeed you have my friend Can't say I disagree with you, either.

[Maetharin]

What about making Elite units (Argyaspides, Hypaspitai, Phezhetairoi, Hetairoi, Agema, Sacred Band, aso.) only available in major cities (Alexandria, Seleucia, Pella, Carthago, aso.)?

[KAM 2150]

I think it would restrick AI too much, plus would not be very realistic.

[Maetharin]

I would think elite corps or even whole armies were assembled/gathered next to a countries capital...
Examples:
The Sacred Band was made up from Carthaginian Nobles, who lived in Carthage, logical assembly point: Carthage.
The Agema, as a royal guard, would be assembled near Alexandria, as firstly, their King was situated there, secondly they were all Macedonian minor Nobles, who nearly exclusively lived in Alexandria.
The Argyaspidai were a standing army, which went were the King went, so the logical assembly point would be either Seleucia or Antiochia, as that´s were the King resided.

In case of the romans, after giving up the Field of Mars as assembly, they trained their legions near Capua, but this was still relatively near Rome.

My point is, where else to assemble your army, if not near the capital?
It shows your citizens your military might, it simplifies communication and assembly in general, and brings in traders who follow in any army´s wake, therefore boosting commerce around the capital.

[KAM 2150]

Most of nobles of succesor armies were living on the country side, in case of Seleucids even in special military settlements quite away from the capital. But the problem is the AI as some nations do not even start with major cities. Plus you already recruit units from entire province, hence even if you could only have elites in major cities, you could still recruit those elite units in the non developed minor city on the other end of the province.

[Maetharin]

That completely contradicts with what I have read about macedonian nobles^^
I´ve read that essentially, the macedons populated isolated city islands, farming the surrounding landscapes, and standing above the "barbarian" population.
And nobles partook in politics, which meant staying in Alexandria or Antiochia/Seleucia and licking the boots of the king

But what I was talking about was an army´s assembly, which logically should happen near the capital. But if it isn´t possible to do, then it´s not possible

[Litharion]

I think that with just a few changes the recruitment/barracks building change could make the game much more historically accurate and make the early-mid campaign much more interesting/balanced.

• Make higher tier units available earlier in the barracks building chain. This is especially true of the Successor/Hellenic factions. For example, I think that having non-reform elite units like the hypaspistai and Argyraspides available only after researching and building the Tier IV barracks and the last military tech is both ahistorical and way too time consuming. Historically, the Successor armies and the Hellenic factions would have had access to their most elite units at the beginning of the game time period. My suggestion would be to make elite units available at the Tier III barracks - you still need to research some techs and build up your barracks but at least you can use elite units in your army during early and mid game play.

....

I agree, this would greatly improve early AI armies as well.

[Maetharin]

I agree, this would greatly improve early AI armies as well.

what about making all pre reform units available from tier 2 on? Getting more recruitment slots and training per tier would be compensation for this bonus

[Ivan_Moscavich]

I meant to chime in on this before but I was on vacation.

The idea that some units are only available so far into the tech tree and with a level four barracks is ridiculous, especially considering the elite units usually represent units that the factions that have them existed even before the games time frame.

Companion cavalry in Macedonia being the huge glaring one.

But even things like not being able to recruit principes and triarii from the same building level as hastati. Building hastati by themselves makes no sense, as they were part of a three tiered system with the principes and triarii.

I think that ALL non-reform units should be available from a level 1 or 2 barracks, and only some really advanced reform units should be available from the level 3 barracks.

Other than that, increasing the barracks beyond 2 should only have some other, non unit unlocking benefit like better training or something.