EUIV Multiplayer VIII Common Sense

[apple]

prob yes.

[Poach]

He can have 6, 7 or 9. In trying to build a custom nation I'm reminded that I loathe the minmaxing that this game mode represents. The entire National Idea/Idea Group thing in EU4 sucks (massive step backwards from EU3) and custom nations exacerbate, rather than compensate for, that. I'll sit this one out. Randomised AI nations is also pretty stupid in my opinion, I bought EU3/4 for the historical sandbox.

[Lord Romanus III]

I guess.

He can have 6, 7 or 9. In trying to build a custom nation I'm reminded that I loathe the minmaxing that this game mode represents. The entire National Idea/Idea Group thing in EU4 sucks (massive step backwards from EU3) and custom nations exacerbate, rather than compensate for, that. I'll sit this one out. Randomised AI nations is also pretty stupid in my opinion, I bought EU3/4 for the historical sandbox.

I really agree with Poach wholeheartedly on this one. As amusing as "Swag City" or "ISIS" can be in a custom game, it really takes away from the atmosphere for me.

[Pat89]

I hope I get my pc tomorrow or Saturday then... There was an issue with the gfx cards delivery so it took much longer than I had hoped. I currently have no pc at all (it fried) so if not, I'll have to miss the first session and thus probably the entire game if it starts Sunday.

Only slightly annoyed. Just waiting for my pc for a couple of weeks now. I can handle that. Not.

As for poach thing, I can see your point and I guess a next game we could simply do all historical again. But I don't really mind with custom that much for two times while its still new.

[Keelos Penguinos]

Nathan told me to come here and ask that we start this Sunday, so yeah, that I guess. Also ive been doing exams so havent had time to think of any nation ideas or starting points so ill just fill in wherever on the day and smash some ideas out, shouldnt take too long so no worries about delays.

Edit: Actually just stick me on 26 on that map.

[Nelon]

Yes.

Yes.

[abbews]

Work schedule changes next week, which means I start work at 6am. Unless this game starts an hour earlier, and it never has, so I will not be playing. Damnit.

[Ynen]

I thought we already decided to start this sunday

And I totally get where rickie and poach are coming from, and honestly I don't really care either way. Both have merits and drawbacks imo.

[abbews]

If people want to customize, make it 800 points. Force every player to replace a starting nation completely. Picking France gives valuable land but not uber ideas, picking Brandenburg gives powerful ideas but not much land etc.

[High Chunker Greens]

I don't care about custom nations because I'm playing as a horde. What I suggested before about allowing custom nations but only for 200 points forces them to start small (or risk terrible ideas, like colonial range) so they won't have a huge impact on the game.

[Musthavename]

I agree with half of Poach's sentiment. Namely, national ideas suck.

That said, I disagree with regards to custom nations. Being able to pick your own ideas completely levels the field, as everyone has to factor in the same costs. Yes, it leads to min-maxing, but the entire game is about min-maxing. You still never get an even playing field (fixed trade nodes are horrendous in this regard), but frankly it's a lot better competetively than EU4 normally is. Having fought wars in previous games where one side lost just because the other had superior national ideas always sucked, not to mention it forces gameplay choices. Heck to be honest, if we all agreed to have the same set of national ideas, I'd be more than fine with it. It's also a part of the major reason behind my thinking that either everyone is a custom nation or nobody is - it keeps the field level.

That also said, despite my preference for custom nations, after this game I'll be voting to return to historical nations again. I don't want custom nations to monopolise all our games, but I don't feel I can let it slip after one game that imo, was cut dreadfully short.

Speaking of which, the vote was clearly in favour of custom nations. However, I'm not sure if it's fair to decide random/historical for the others based on it, as it takes no account of whether those who didn't want custom nations would prefer random or historical AI's.

[Lord Romanus III]

Playing on a historical map would be either fine or silly. There are lots of things to consider:
- tech based on capitol/majority of developed provinces (if they're in a place that should have eastern tech)
- Can players take any provinces they want? Should players be allowed to "gimp" majors by taking key provinces/splitting them apart?
- Should players try to replace existing nations with ideas that they want, within a point limit?


Also, I'm fine with imbalanced national ideas. I never wanted to play "equality/flexibility simulator" set in late medieval-colonial Europe. And playing custom nations to "maximize pvp" is just silly to me because blob nations are when the game becomes stale and less fun. At the point when players run out of objectives in terms of land acquisition from the AI, it turns to who can min/max the best to kill each other, which isn't what the whole timeframe was about.

[Pat89]

So, no pc till Monday. I'll have to drop if it starts tomorrow. Great. Anther downside of custom nations I guess.

[Musthavename]

Frankly I wouldn't mind you having someone else "create" your nation and letting it get AI'd for a session (or subbed, if you can find one). Similarly, I wouldn't have any complaints at you simply making a custom nation in the second sesssion providing there's enough space somewhere.

[Keelos Penguinos]

I've decided I cant really be bothered committing to this again so I'm going to pass this time around lads. That does mean you can knock off my vote for custom nations random nations which should be funny as it brings votes level.

[Pat89]

If someone would want to sub for me I'd appreciate that. I have some ideas for a nation but nothing too complex to explain in a short PM.

[Pat89]

Also, @Ciciro I don't know where you were going to settle in your region of you still go for Austria rather than Egypt, but I want tirol.

[Cryers-]

So what's happening now that Keelos has backed out?

[Lord Romanus III]

Yeah, what is happening?

[Musthavename]

I suggest anyone who's interested in playing just turn up tomorrow evening where we can have a revote on the matter. If you can't make it tomorrow or simply don't want to plan the time aside to come to a game you might not be interested in, I suggest you indicate your preference here (though afaik, it's just Pat who can't make it and Poach who will only play historical). I'm sure worst case we can sort out nations even if we suddenly switch game-types (I'm completely easy on nation picks for a historical setup, so I'll go wherever, just not France - English pride prevents me playing them).

Incidentally, there seems to be a bug in the game where if random setup is used, all trade modifiers (centres of trade, estuaries, etc...) dissappear, but a custom nation still pays extra for them. Frankly, that's enough for me to prefer the "custom" setup (custom on, historical nations still exist).