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Thread: New Graphics Card Advice

  1. #1
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default New Graphics Card Advice

    This thread is sort of two pronged. First I need advice on whether I should get a new graphics card and second I need advice on what I should be looking at.

    Just some background. I built my PC about 5 years ago with help from a different forum and put a . It's running well since and I've only ever added more RAM to it. Everything else has stayed the same. I generally play strategy games with low to medium graphics so the graphics card has never really been of any concern. However last winter I bought NBA 2K15 and while I had no problems at all with any lag or performance issues, my GPU's temperature would stay at about 80°C and over, setting the GPU fan to max and making a slight smell for the duration of the game. Now at first I thought this was fine. My thinking was that it only happened with one game and once I dropped playing the temp dropped down immediately so I didn't think there was much damage. However, I recently downloaded Napoleon: Total War and I started getting the high temperatures, the fan speed and the smell on the campaign map alone, I haven't even tried the battles. Plus lately I've noticed that it seems to be put under more strain doing almost everything. Resting temperature is nearly 50°C and the fan seems to be audible more often than not. Skype and Youtube even seem to be testing it.

    On top of all that I would like a bit more power to speed up games in Crusader Kings 2 and such.

    Then secondly, if I could benefit from a new GPU I'd need to know what to get. I literally have no idea about graphics cards at the moment. My PSU and Mother are as follows:

    PSU: http://www.newegg.com/global/ie/Prod...82E16817139028

    Motherboard: http://www.gigabyte.ie/products/prod...px?pid=3375#ov

    Both of these are from the original build. As for price, money is a bit tight at the moment (but obviously not too much if I'm thinking of GPU). I mean in an ideal world I'd rather stay under €100 but I realise that is probably unrealistic for a decent GPU. I figure at least if I have an idea of what to look for I may be able to pick up a cheap, secondhand one.

    Thanks in advance for any help and if I left out any details please advise.


  2. #2

    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    need to pick a GPU based on your monitor and your directx version. what resolution do you play at and whats your operating system?

    i would have already replaced anything that causes a smell, nothing should smell even if it's running full speed. a smell could indicate that something is burning.
    Last edited by snuggans; June 01, 2015 at 09:22 AM.

  3. #3
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    need to pick a GPU based on your monitor and your directx version. what resolution do you play at and whats your operating system?

    i would have already replaced anything that causes a smell, nothing should smell even if it's running full speed. a smell could indicate that something is burning.
    My monitor resolution is 1920x1080(32 bit 60Hz) and I'm running Windows 7 with DirectX 11.

    The smell was the most alarming thing but I opened it up and found no signs of damage.


  4. #4

    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    i'm going to advise against buying secondhand electronics because all electronics have a certain life expectancy, and although enthusiast gamers replace hardware every few years even if it doesn't die, i believe it will be more costly in the end to be replacing secondhands that already have spent life when you first bought them; this increases your likelihood of seeing failures.

    i was going to recommend the R9 280X (€193 right now) since its strong in the price to performance ratio but its specifications says it requires a 750 watt PSU, therefore i recommend its less power hungry sibling the R9 280 (€165) which specifications call for 600 watts. if you want to go lower than that in the used market i'd recommend a GTX 760 or a 7950, they have a bit less performance but still within the same neighborhood, they are however older while the R9's i linked are more recent

    what i look at most in cards are the framerate benchmarks in the reviews found in sites like tomshardware.com, anandtech.com, techpowerup.com, guru3d.com, the graphs are a good way to get a feel for the relative difference between cards performance in game so you know whats worth the price and whats not and how they react to individual games and different engines
    Last edited by snuggans; June 01, 2015 at 12:41 PM.

  5. #5
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    R9 is not newer the R9 280x is a rebranded 7970 GHz edition which is just a faster 7970 while the R9 280 is basically a 7950 Boost Edition which is just a faster 7950. Its old tech.

    New AMD GPUs launch sometime this month which means the price structure will get a shake up so your better of waiting. Recommended PSU requirements are pretty much . They are made because people buy Crap from china for $15 thats rated at 700w but is really just a 350-400w unit.

    Second hand GPUs are fine. Vendors like ASUS go by Serial number with a 3 year warranty so if GPU is a year old its still got 2 years warranty even if you got it used. All depends on when it was purchased.

    Considering your System is an older Phenom II which is old and obsolete a new GPU will give it some life but fact is Phenom II x4s are now being considered the MINIMUM for some game requirements.

    That said for something like CK2 thats a CPU issue not GPU in terms of speeding that up.

    Your PSU is fine for pretty much ANY single GPU card.

    so 290x / 980Ti / Titan X w.e you want that PSU is fine. Dual GPU cards like the R9 295x2 etc will kill that PSU.

    As for the GPU at 100 bucks you will need to go used to get anything worthwhile.

    GT 740 from Nvidia is only equal to the INTEGRATED graphics on AMD's new APUs (CPU + GPU on single chip) aka Entry level. So used is pretty much your only option.
    CPU: i7 3770K 4.6GHz / i7 4930K 4.4 GHz / i7 4770K 4.6 GHz
    CPU HSF: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Pro / Review Samples / Review Samples
    MOBO: Biostar TZ77XE4 / ASRock X79 Fatal1ty Champion / MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming
    RAM: Mushkin Redlines 2x4GB 1866 MHz / 4x4GB Gskill 2133 MHz / 2x4GB Kingston 2400 MHz
    GPU: Integrated / GTX 780 / HD 5450 Passive
    PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 1050w 80+ GOLD / NZXT Hale82 650w Modular / same
    CASE: Nanoxia DS1 / Nanoxia DS1 / Lian Li Test Bench
    HDD: 160 HDD / 512GB SSD + 120GB SSD + 5.5TB HDD / 60gb SSD

  6. #6
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    I don't mind waiting. I'm really in no rush to buy but I just thought I should start preparing as soon as possible since I know so little.

    As for the CK2 thing, I'm getting so much conflicting info I don't know what to think. At first I thought the CPU was the big issue too. However, I asked over at the CK2 forums about a year ago and was told CPU comes behind the GPU and then RAM for importance. So since I play less demanding games graphic's wise, I went with the cheaper option of 4GB more RAM. I got a slight performance boost but nothing impressive.

    It's good to know that I don't really have to worry about PSU compatibility. €100 wasn't a hard and fast rule. I just don't like spending over a €100 on anything. If I'm waiting a few weeks anyway I can save up, especially if it's worth going a bit higher on price for much better specs.

    Also would it be worth looking into a better ventilated case? Due to lack of room I have my PC in a rather confined space and I'm thinking that isn't helping with overheating. Can that affect performance?


  7. #7

    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    you do need to worry about PSU compatibility, because PSUs degrade over time and put out less watts, if your PSU is 5 years old like you said it has already degraded well below the 600 watts (which it probably wasnt putting out in the first place anyway). crazyeyesreaper mentioned buying crappy power supplies from china, where do you think the popular and affordable 'corsair' gets their psus manufactured? especially a mid range bronze-rated crappy CX series? i'm surprised its lasted that long to be honest.
    PSU compatibility is especially important with the R9's i linked to because they draw more power while under load than similar cards in their field. his recommendations of "290x / 980Ti / Titan X w.e" are way out of your price range. (and why anyone would buy a 980 over a 970 beats me). all in all you'll probably end up going with an R9 280 like i recommended unless you change your entire setup. oh and please do not try to put a titan or a 980 in that power supply lol
    Last edited by snuggans; June 01, 2015 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    Depends on the CX the CX600 should be fine. Its a Channel Well DSAII Platform unit not special but solid. Used around 30-40 of them and about 25-30 CX430w units all of which have been rock solid. other 80 + Bronze units like the OCZ Fatal1ty / Mod Extreme / Kingwin / HEC / etc in those situations I would be far more worried. For the most part Capacitor Aging is a bit overblown. Got numerous PSUs sitting here going on 7-8-9 years old still working. BFG / piece of XION that came with a case / couple of old Bestec units and all were within spec when I tested them last. Your more likely to overload and kill a PSU with Sata devices than age. Example killed a brand new HX850 by hooking up to many HDDs. it pushed the 3.3v and 5v rails out spec which caused damage due to the motherboard I was testing not offering staggered spin-up.

    My POS Tough Power Grand is going on 5 years old still holding up fine. Also I never told him to buy any high end GPU, just that the 600w can handle them regardless of what you think.

    I test hardware daily thats basically my job. The PSU will be fine for something like a R9 285 Tonga. GTX 960 etc. his CPU will peak at 125-140 GPU around 200 worst case senario no game / app is gonna push both to use maximum rated power. As such hes at the proper 50% mark.

    Does that mean any of that is a good idea? No.

    The Board only properly supports upto Phenom II x6 units. No Bulldozer / Piledriver / etc CPUs are properly supported.

    In fact the board is the weakest link its a 4+1 Phase design that was known to be problematic.

    As for the 970 vs 980 most make the jump due to the 3.5GB + 512mb issue. I dont see it as a deal breaker but I have found that when it does page to that memory some games will Hitch a bit or see Frame time spikes. Most of which are only noticeable during testing not actual gameplay.

    As for R9 280 hes better off with the 285 if he plans to stick with the GPU long term. Due to better tessellation and delta color compressions tech. Gives it a slight edge despite the smaller Vram buffer. Sadly I don't really find any of the mid range GPUs to be great options just yet. The R9 280 literally is just a straight rebadged 7950 which launched late 2011 early 2012 so its 3 going on 4 year old Tech as it is. The industry is at a time of flux with no real hardware just old rebadged which will remain the case until they can get past 28nm node for GPUs.

    Long story short I really wouldn't invest money in a 5 year old system especially with an old Phenom II that is now pretty much the minimum requirement going forward.
    CPU: i7 3770K 4.6GHz / i7 4930K 4.4 GHz / i7 4770K 4.6 GHz
    CPU HSF: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Pro / Review Samples / Review Samples
    MOBO: Biostar TZ77XE4 / ASRock X79 Fatal1ty Champion / MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming
    RAM: Mushkin Redlines 2x4GB 1866 MHz / 4x4GB Gskill 2133 MHz / 2x4GB Kingston 2400 MHz
    GPU: Integrated / GTX 780 / HD 5450 Passive
    PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 1050w 80+ GOLD / NZXT Hale82 650w Modular / same
    CASE: Nanoxia DS1 / Nanoxia DS1 / Lian Li Test Bench
    HDD: 160 HDD / 512GB SSD + 120GB SSD + 5.5TB HDD / 60gb SSD

  9. #9
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    So basically you're saying I should be getting a new CPU instead of a GPU? Or just a new motherboard entirely? I'm a little confused as to why since my CPU isn't giving me any trouble and my GPU is. At least if I invest in a new GPU and it doesn't improve performance, I can just stick the GPU into a new motherboard anyway. Especially if what you're saying about the PSU is correct. If I go get a new CPU (like a Phenom II x6 which I'm guessing will only give a small boost) or a whole new motherboard I'll still be left with a dodgy GPU and will have to upgrade that anyway.

    I mean the whole reason I built this computer was so I could upgrade it part by part when I need it instead of just getting a whole new PC every time.


  10. #10
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    GPu upgrade will work. I just dont think you realize how much that Phenom II limits performance of the New hardware.

    Upgrading a PC is fine. THe problem is you choose a dead end socket / board and waited 5 years.

    Upgrade cycle is around 3 years. you bought an extreme Entry level motherboard = mistake 1
    Even though AMD is cost effective their performance as been lacking mistake 2
    waiting 5 years for an upgrade mistake 3

    Get a GPU. But realize this almost any GPU you do get will be hamstrung performance wise due to the CPU. GTX 960 or AMD R9 285 would be solid bets that at least support Direct X 12 for Windows 10.
    CPU: i7 3770K 4.6GHz / i7 4930K 4.4 GHz / i7 4770K 4.6 GHz
    CPU HSF: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Pro / Review Samples / Review Samples
    MOBO: Biostar TZ77XE4 / ASRock X79 Fatal1ty Champion / MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming
    RAM: Mushkin Redlines 2x4GB 1866 MHz / 4x4GB Gskill 2133 MHz / 2x4GB Kingston 2400 MHz
    GPU: Integrated / GTX 780 / HD 5450 Passive
    PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 1050w 80+ GOLD / NZXT Hale82 650w Modular / same
    CASE: Nanoxia DS1 / Nanoxia DS1 / Lian Li Test Bench
    HDD: 160 HDD / 512GB SSD + 120GB SSD + 5.5TB HDD / 60gb SSD

  11. #11
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    Ah ok I think I get you now. I will see a performance boost with a new graphics but it's just like put a patch on the much bigger overall problem of needing a new CPU and motherboard. Am I right?

    I guess I just really don't get the link in performance between a CPU and a GPU so I'll have to read up on that. I think I bought built my PC at a bad time, Phenom II x6 had a big price drop just after I purchased everything. I was a bit uneducated and I'm still trying to learn.

    As a side note could you guys recommend any literature or sites to help understand this stuff. I don't mean to turn this into a college lecture but I'm eager to get an understanding of hardware market and what's going on, especially if I should be upgrading every 3 years as you suggest.


  12. #12
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    Part 1: Yes that is correct. Your Phenom II CPU is now considered MINIMUM Requirement. AKA when you built your system Pentium 4 were still the defacto MINIMUM CPU required. Right now the Phenom II line has become that new MINIMUM Requirement for new games coming out today.

    Basically most games are / were single threaded. AMD had GREAT multithreading performance and still do however due to the lower IPC (instructions per clock) they suffer in situations where the CPU is not used. This results in performance issues example. Shogun 2 Total War: Phenom II in the CPU melee test was around 10-12 while an Intel Core i5 is around 20+ nearly double the performance. This is because only a few cores were used and as such the higher IPC of the Intel CPU gave it the performance edge.

    CPU and GPU should be roughly every other generation. SO example

    Say you bought a COre i7 920 instead of the Phenom II. You could have skipped Sandy Bridge and grabbed Ivy Bridge giving PCIe 3.0 + 30% CPU performance boost.
    GPU is much the same. Example Radeon 7970 = R9 280X = rebaged R9 370. The 7970 was $500 new the 280X dropped to $300 or so with each gen the same performance level drops down a tier.

    so GTX 680 = GTX 770 = GTX 960 in terms of performance. Going from say GTX 680 to 780 is only around 30% boost. However going from GTX 680 to a GTX 980 = 70% boost. The price of the 980 is similar to the GTX 680 at launch. Thus similar price per part if you take inflation into account among other things. Still Its best to pick a price range your happy with and upgrade every other generation.



    SO Phenom II skip Bulldozer aka 8150 the jump to an 8350 is okay still not great. IPC of the new AMD cpus didnt change. No improvement unless the game uses multiple cores well. New AMD CPU called Zen doesnt launch untill 2016. That would be the proper upgrade but will require all new Mobo and CPU. Same with Intel. They do a Tick Tock senario = two CPU releases on one socket. So 2500k vs 3570k same socket. 4670k = new socket. It can be very confusing.

    A good way to mitigate cost is to change up the upgrade cycle so. GPU one year. CPU+MOBO+RAM another year. This way you never have to pay all up front and if you sell off older hardware you can make a few $$ back. This is just a brief idea. Anyone using say Sandybridge I5 2500k has no REAL reason to upgrade until Intel releases a new socket as 2500 to 3500 to 4600 series of CPUs was about 10% a best between releases. 5000 series is a 4000 series refresh also not worth it however the new socket coming out for Z170 will in fact be worth while as its a DDR4 capable socket etc. Hardware is always changing but a good rule of thumb is every 3 years or so. Your hardware isnt so old as to be worthless aka money in your pocket and the performance boost is worthwhile to purchase.
    CPU: i7 3770K 4.6GHz / i7 4930K 4.4 GHz / i7 4770K 4.6 GHz
    CPU HSF: Thermaltake Water 2.0 Pro / Review Samples / Review Samples
    MOBO: Biostar TZ77XE4 / ASRock X79 Fatal1ty Champion / MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming
    RAM: Mushkin Redlines 2x4GB 1866 MHz / 4x4GB Gskill 2133 MHz / 2x4GB Kingston 2400 MHz
    GPU: Integrated / GTX 780 / HD 5450 Passive
    PSU: Thermaltake Toughpower Grand 1050w 80+ GOLD / NZXT Hale82 650w Modular / same
    CASE: Nanoxia DS1 / Nanoxia DS1 / Lian Li Test Bench
    HDD: 160 HDD / 512GB SSD + 120GB SSD + 5.5TB HDD / 60gb SSD

  13. #13
    ccllnply's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: New Graphics Card Advice

    Ok this is good. I read your post and did some research of my own and I'm learning a bit. Looks like either way I go is going to cost me over €200 so I'll have to get saving.


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