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Thread: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

  1. #181

    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlus Lostus View Post
    One thing I find odd in RS2.6 is that Hamata and Segmentata Legions have the same armour stats. Isnīt plate armour much more resistant than chainmail armour? You could increase the armour stat for Segmentata but make them slower because they carry more weight.
    As far as I'm told: nope, and nope. Chainmail is heavier, more resistant but more expensive. The lorica segmentata was designed to decrease costs of manuefacture and also it was weaker compared to chainmail.

    Or, I've been misinformed completely.

  2. #182

    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.Speirs View Post
    As far as I'm told: nope, and nope. Chainmail is heavier, more resistant but more expensive. The lorica segmentata was designed to decrease costs of manuefacture and also it was weaker compared to chainmail.

    Or, I've been misinformed completely.
    Actually the 'truth' is somewhat in-between - and is mainly situational...

    Firstly - the directly above is accurate. Once the Romans could produce simple rolled steel in their manufacturies; the segmentata was definitely easier and cheap to produce with replacement (standardised) parts simple to supply and fit. However, in the longer term, a maintained hamata (mail-coat) will last a very long time and is maintainable (replacement links, etc) by any skilled blacksmith and doesn't require the 'manufactory' setup.

    Then you have the 'effectiveness', which depends on the threat. Steel plate is more efficacious against the blunt/edged weapon (like clubs, swords and even falcata), because it does not 'give' as much as mail. That latter, however, that mail is more flexible, is also while it was more liked for horsemen. Mail corselets also, therefore, tend to cover more flesh and thus more useful against arrows, etc. The links also allow one to aerate more in any form of breeze.

    Thus it seems to be the case, and supported by what evidence is out there, that the Western legions graduated to segmentata whilst it was available as it was more useful against the weapons that they tended to face (also many less arrows). Whereas Eastern legions seem to have retained the hamata coats as they covered more, but were cooler, against the much more prevalent arrows of their enemies.

    Overall, then, it's simply easier to think that they are more or less the same, given we only have access to a single armour stat. In fact I have often argued that the legionary stats really should change at all over the period, whichever legions we use. That said, there is an argument that morale and training can be better represented through the ages.

    Even if we could give different armour stats vs different weapons; we'd then be faced by player using, for example, far too many archers/slingers than they do now - which is still too many!

    So - two sides to the story - both somewhat correct.
    "RTW/RS VH campaign difficulty is bugged out (CA bug that never got fixed) and thus easier than Hard so play on that instead" - apple

    RSII 2.5/2.6 Tester and pesky irritant to the Team. Mucho praise for long suffering dvk'.

  3. #183

    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.Speirs View Post
    As far as I'm told: nope, and nope. Chainmail is heavier, more resistant but more expensive. The lorica segmentata was designed to decrease costs of manuefacture and also it was weaker compared to chainmail.

    Or, I've been misinformed completely.
    This is some video I found about lorica segmentata being tested against a sword:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D0xTP86afY
    Looks pretty resistant, whereas chainmail armor can be cut open with a few blows:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qEUJTE90s
    (The armour and the sword are not roman but you get my point)

    I didnīt find any example of lorica segmentata being tested against arrows, would be interesting to see that.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlus Lostus View Post
    This is some video I found about lorica segmentata being tested against a sword:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D0xTP86afY
    Looks pretty resistant, whereas chainmail armor can be cut open with a few blows:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qEUJTE90s
    (The armour and the sword are not roman but you get my point)

    I didnīt find any example of lorica segmentata being tested against arrows, would be interesting to see that.
    Lol, really? The first video doesn't make sence at all. That sword is designed for stabbing not slashing. The 2nd video is a little more interesting because it's a stabbing move against a chainmail suit. You can see that the sword does in fact reach the body but to a minimum.

    I'll stand by my opinion, segmentata would be cheaper and lighter in weight. (also I think you can stab in between the segments of the armor) But the chainmail would be more protective.

  5. #185

    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt.Speirs View Post
    Lol, really? The first video doesn't make sence at all. That sword is designed for stabbing not slashing. The 2nd video is a little more interesting because it's a stabbing move against a chainmail suit. You can see that the sword does in fact reach the body but to a minimum.

    I'll stand by my opinion, segmentata would be cheaper and lighter in weight. (also I think you can stab in between the segments of the armor) But the chainmail would be more protective.
    I am a ancient warfare reenactual team and can say here for sure that: all of them, lorica and chain mail are specific crafted for. Some have advantage over other in some circumstances and viceversa. What can I say of them is:
    1. Both, lorica and chaimail are very good against slashing weapons, full chain mail here covering arms are better);
    2. overall segmentata are more good against stabbing, but it depends on situation ( blow that are going throw the space between the segments of segmentata, thus from down to upwards; so segmentata is worst on cavalry against almost any sort of infantry tipped weapons)
    3. both are very low efficient against arrows
    4. lorica perform slighty better against blunt weapons.
    3.

  6. #186

    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    Excuse me, I donīt want to sound like a jerk. The environment looks amazing and much better than original Rome but... why is it ALL yellow? I canīt see green grass even playin Gallaeci and I can assure you thatīs where you are going to find the most dark green grass in the world... I been trying to find green battlefields but everything seems to be yellow...

  7. #187

    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    Is the battlemap for RS still available for Rome I Vanilla? I remember a post about it on here somewhere, but can't find it anymore .

  8. #188
    20ninescene's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Roma Surrectum III preview: The new battle map enviroment

    I can't find it either. I'm currently redoing the environments again and I'll make it available for vanilla again when I'm done

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