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Thread: Forts pre-built on campagin map

  1. #1
    Rohi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Hello,

    I have a question concerning modding the startpos file to have forts pre-built on the campaign map.

    From what I have seen from various mods, in particular the American Civil War mod, it is possible to edit the location of forts on the campaign map. I suspect this requires modification to the startpos (and perhaps another file I am not aware of..?)..?

    More specifically, my question concerns the lines in the table highlighted in red in this screenshot:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The image above refers to the 'Upper Louisiana' region in North American theatre. This region in particular stars with a fort prebuilt on the campaign map.

    I believe the fist line refers to the coordinates of the fort.
    The third line, with the '0', seems to refer to the type of fort (I think...)
    As for the 'UTF 16', this seems to be the unique reference for the fort. This is evident from the Start_Pos_Forts_Fort_Name_ where the nine digit number is identical to the UTF16 line.

    From what I've read in the modding guides thus far, especially Husserl's (I think that's the correct spelling) wonderful guides, I have yet to find an answer for this question. Moreover, I've read that the nine digit numbers are unique numbers - and some of them concern positioning on the campaign map... Does anyone here know specifically what they refer?

    I even went as far as to run the following test:
    First, I opened a game. I sent a general from Quebec to build a fort in Ontario.
    Second, I saved the game.
    Third, I opened that saved game and edited the Startpos: the fort I built was visible in Ontario region!
    Fourth, I tried copying that line in the Ontario region from the saved game into the original startpos and the result: CTD.
    Fifth, I tried renaming the Start_Pos_Forts_Fort_Name_ ... And also the result: CTD

    After hours of running tests I have been unable to 'unlock' this modding feature. It seems I will be unable to do this unless I know what those lines refer to within that red box.

    Finally: Is there another .esf file I need to edit in addition to the startpos file..? For instance, I tried browsing through the regions.esf file however I did not notice anything relevant to this issue.

    As mentioned above, it is possible to edit campaign forts since this has been done previously in other mods, for instance the American Civil War (ACW) mod offers brilliant modified features to campaign forts... So this is possible...

    Any assistance with this matter will be appreciated!

  2. #2
    Quintus Hortensius Hortalus's Avatar Lex duodecim tabularum
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    This should be the explanation for the lines:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Change the name should not make any difference, it just reffered to the loc and should not cause at CTD.
    You need to edit the regions.esf but it uses different coordinates. Furthermore you need to edit the CAI-World in the startpos. This is all I know.
    Sorry that I can't help you more.

    Under the patronage of wangrin my workshop

  3. #3

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Hi Rohi I want to wish you the best of luck on this project and I hope to God that you figure it out and its a very honorable thing you are doing, in being a pioneer, trying to make campaign more historical. Hopefully you will inspire other modding teams such as I.S. and Colonialism to include these pre forts especially in North America because it is terribly lacking wooden forts or forts of any kind. Historically during the 18th century North American landscape was dotted with forts!! If and when you figure this out can you make a submod or will we be able to download it to use with other mods...?

  4. #4
    Rohi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Change the name should not make any difference, it just reffered to the loc and should not cause at CTD.
    You need to edit the regions.esf but it uses different coordinates. Furthermore you need to edit the CAI-World in the startpos. This is all I know.
    Sorry that I can't help you more.
    Thank-you Quintus!
    Once again you have been very helpful. I suspected there were other files I had to edit.

    Historically during the 18th century North American landscape was dotted with forts!! If and when you figure this out can you make a submod or will we be able to download it to use with other mods...?
    Hi Napoli,
    I agree that the North American region lacks forts - however the generals being able to make them should account for this 'dull' scenario. However, from my recent experience testing the American Civil War Mod, a strategically placed fort on the campaign map truly enhances the strategic 'feeling' of the game.

    The plan is as follows:
    1. Learn how to make forts pre-built on the campaign map.
    2. Remove fortifications from settlements (since the AI seems to butcher these siege assaults, and I agree, the AI's inability to efficiently siege settlement fortifications tens to ruin the 'tactical thrill' which is so important to Total War games).
    3. Remove the ability for generals to build forts

    Objective: to entice armies 'out into the fields' and make fighting for strategic locations (such as river crossings) all the more significant.

    The only problem I've noticed thus far, is that once a faction loses a region with a prebuilt fort (let's say France loses Upper Louisiana to Iroquois/Six Nations), then that fort also 'disappears'... I'm not sure if there is a way around this.

    In any case, once I get the first step completed I will definitely share the information with whomever wants it.

    Furthermore, and a little bit off topic, I've noticed that the team work on the Imperial Destroyer mod (Lord Sith? I think...) seems to have managed to 'add' new regions to the campaign map. In particular, it seems from the screenshots from the latest version of the Imperial Destroyer mod, that the team has worked in the 'Warpath' campaign map in to the Grand Campaign. Again, this observation is based on viewing screenshots so don't quote me... I am actually heading to that forum to ask to be sure, especially since I've read years of discussions in TWCenter when seem to have concluded that such a feat was 'not likely'...

    In either case, if, and I want to emphasize ifit is possible to work in the warpath campaign map to the grand campaign, then I plan (hope?) to work in the forts as historically accurate as possible, throughout the 'warpath' North America region, albeit worked into the Grand Campaign.

    If the above 'warpath' modification is possible, then a 'Seven Years War' mini mod seems quite enticing. Alas, such a mini/submod is dependent upon the community. My plan is to work on the above 3 steps, especially the first step, before attempting anything else.

    Finally, I've also noticed that it is possible to change the structure of the forts. I think the circular fort ('stockade'?) is relevant in some instances especially since the AI seems to be able to attack these forts more efficiently. There is a mini-mod available somewhere in this forum where the developer modded the fort files so the only forts available were wooden forts and stockades. Once I complete step one, I might ask this developer if I can use some of their work. ... Of course, this then implies that only wooden forts would be available in the European theatre and I'm not sure how players would feel about this.

    In the end, there's a lot of work still to do... However, if/whenever I've successfully completed step one, I will share the work with the community.

  5. #5
    Quintus Hortensius Hortalus's Avatar Lex duodecim tabularum
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    BTW: I think this tutorial can help you:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?562723
    It refers just to towns but maybe it will be helpfull with forts too.

    Under the patronage of wangrin my workshop

  6. #6
    Rohi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Quote Originally Posted by Quintus Hortensius Hortalus View Post
    BTW: I think this tutorial can help you:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?562723
    It refers just to towns but maybe it will be helpfull with forts too.
    Thank-you Quintus!
    I will read through this manual in the coming day(s).

    Also, the user who posted that manual, 'uanime5', seems to be a godlike figure in modding... Have you noticed their work in modding Korea and China into Shogun 2!?!?
    Based on their knowledge and experience, I will definitely be adhering to their instructions.

    Thank-you once again!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Greetings Rohi Napoleon, himself could not have a plan of action as brillant as yours! I wish you God's speed on your project.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    BTW how is it possible for generals to build forts on campaign map??? I am currently using Imperial Destroyer mod and I am NOT able to do that! Does anybody know why or does anybody know how a general can build forts??

  9. #9
    Quintus Hortensius Hortalus's Avatar Lex duodecim tabularum
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoli23 View Post
    BTW how is it possible for generals to build forts on campaign map??? I am currently using Imperial Destroyer mod and I am NOT able to do that! Does anybody know why or does anybody know how a general can build forts??
    It's a vanilla function and most mods have disabled this function.

    Under the patronage of wangrin my workshop

  10. #10

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    How does one enable it?

  11. #11
    Rohi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Quote Originally Posted by Zajuts149 View Post
    How does one enable it?
    Do you mean how does one enable 'forts' on the campaign map in a mod which has disabled them?
    Of course, this all depends on the mod you have installed.
    My experience is based on Imperial Splendour 'IS'.
    I wrote a short little guide on how to enable forts in 'IS' since the original mod by default disables forts.
    Here is the guide for enabling forts in IS. I hope this helps you!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Very interested in this work.

    I placed forts on the map for our ACW mod by as you first mentioned, the hybrid ESF method, by playing a campaign, using a general to build a sort, saving rh campaign, then merging the saved game esf with the campaign esf. The only issue is the hybrid method results in our campaign crashing sooner or later.

    So, I would be very interested in how to place forts on maps by editing the startpos directly, and not needing to sue the hybrid method.

  13. #13
    Rohi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Quote Originally Posted by pappagoat View Post
    Very interested in this work.

    I placed forts on the map for our ACW mod by as you first mentioned, the hybrid ESF method, by playing a campaign, using a general to build a sort, saving rh campaign, then merging the saved game esf with the campaign esf. The only issue is the hybrid method results in our campaign crashing sooner or later.

    So, I would be very interested in how to place forts on maps by editing the startpos directly, and not needing to sue the hybrid method.
    Hi pappagoat,

    From what you described, it seems I should stop using the 'hybird' method because it proves unstable..?
    Since this truly seems to be the case, then there is a lot more work ahead.
    Nevertheless, based on the notion that 'Upper Louisiana', Paris, and 'Alsace' (I think that's the French region) start with forts pre-built on the campaign map suggests this is possible.

    The good news, I received permission from Dignan to use their fort submod. I think these forts were used in the ACW mod, is this correct? ... Unfortunately, this inevitably means many more hours slowly going blind paying with the startpos files, testing the game, etc.

    Any help/assistance/guidance is greatly appreciated!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    We made our own fort adjustments but I did see dignans mod. All of our forts on the map are wooden forts remodelled to look like earthwork forts. The fort guns are different depending upon the fort type. Although they actually all fire the same projectile regardless of the size of the gun (a vanilla problem, likely work that was never completed, along with the siege equipment one can see in the db tables).

    We used the stockade in quick battles to represent a frontier outpost, haven't figured out how I place them on the map where I'd want them yet. In an upcoming update the forts will have notice accurately modelled garrison artillery.

    You can try the hybrid method, however in my experience it is inherently unstable unfortunately. Enabling settlement fortifications can be done without hybrid, but forts on maps is a lot trickier. I wish we could find out how to do it as, as you said, the forts on our ACW map (all placed and named in relation to historical sieges) really add to the campaign (so long as AI garrison them). Or you can do what I did and create garrison units that start the campaign in the forts and have no campaign map movement points, although they still often step outside the fort and get stuck!
    Last edited by pappagoat; June 06, 2015 at 06:57 AM.

  15. #15
    Rohi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Quote Originally Posted by pappagoat View Post
    You can try the hybrid method, however in my experience it is inherently unstable unfortunately. Enabling settlement fortifications can be done without hybrid, but forts on maps is a lot trickier. I wish we could find out how to do it as, as you said, the forts on our ACW map (all placed and named in relation to historical sieges) really add to the campaign (so long as AI garrison them). Or you can do what I did and create garrison units that start the campaign in the forts and have no campaign map movement points, although they still often step outside the fort and get stuck!
    The last part you mentioned, about creating garrison units that start the campaign in forts: I think this might be the best option. I am assuming that this method is not a hybrid method?

    I wonder if I can place a general on the campaign map and have it with a prebuilt fort? I wonder if this is the option to get around the hybrid issue... ? What do you think?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Greetings Rohi any break thru in this pre built fort on campaign?

  17. #17
    Rohi's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Unfortunately, no.

    It seems a 'hybrid' option is available, whereby I can follow this modding procedure:
    1. Start campaign.
    2. Get general to build fort on turn one.
    3. Save game, exit ETW.
    4. Open save game via ESF (modding tool).
    5. Copy the built fort from save game into the regular startpos.
    6. Make a few more adjustments/tweeks.
    7. Start game.
    8. If lucky, no immediate crash. However an eventual crash is likely.

    My objective has been to find how the game developers added the pre-built forts to the campaign map (such as Paris and Upper Louisiana) however I have so far not been successful.

    On a positive note, I've spoken to Dignan and they've given me permission to use their fort mod. This mod adds circular forts to the game and for some reason the AI is a lot more efficient at attacking these forts.

    I was hoping to add Dignan's forts to the the fort startpos mod... Unfortunately I've been unsuccessful.

    I'm not giving up! I will try a few more options and hopefully figure it out.

    If anyone wants to help or knows anything I am missing then please share your ideas

  18. #18
    bk2-modder's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    Actually, the hybrid method is perfectly stable so long as you use only a single faction. For example, if you added a fort to england as Great Britain and made a hybrid, any campaign as Great Britain would be perfectly stable; however, starting a campaign, as, say, France, would be unstable and would result in possible corruption of save game or crashing. This is because a save game as another faction is a cross-hybrid. The problem with the ACW 3.6 Campaign is that cross-hybrids were made in the creation of the campaigns. HusserlTW discusses cross hybrids and the limitations of hybrid startposes here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...6-God-Startpos

    But, if you do not use a hybrid startpos and instead figure out how to safely copy JUST the fort entry into the vanilla startpos, then the above limitations would not apply.
    Last edited by bk2-modder; August 21, 2015 at 12:47 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Forts pre-built on campagin map

    There is another way though I figured out.
    You can Use an existing fort relocate it And change owner ship and so it will work Whatever its stable i Don't know i am testing it now

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