Spartan Preview - Hellenika

[Phalangitis]

You made my morning..
+ rep both of you guys..

[Hoplite of Ilis]

I would like to extend the following statement from the entire archeological community. ahem...

GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME

Must be an ABBA fan

[Dontfearme22]

Must be an ABBA fan

[TallestDavid]

awesomo. but wish they held the spear overhand like historical. when is this coming out?

[Tenerife_Boy]

We did the overarm experiment but it resulted in a dumbass animation just because it's imposible to add animations in this game so easy as with the older games.

[Oskar_GD]

Please anyone can show stats - Spartans mores versus Pentakosiomedimnoi Hoplitai ?!

[Phalangitis]

hehe this comment could not be more "in time".I am going to explain what I mean soon

[M@x1mus]

Please anyone can show stats - Spartans mores versus Pentakosiomedimnoi Hoplitai ?!

Indeed nice timing!
Why did Agis in Mantineia calculated the stats of his hoplites in order to fight or not?
Or Miltiades at Marathon computed the stats of his Athenians and that of the Persians through his calculator, and saw that he could win so he fought the battle..!
Phal will tell you more.

[Demokritos]

Looking reeaaally good this mod. Can't wait to download it.

[Tenerife_Boy]

Indeed nice timing!
Why did Agis in Mantineia calculated the stats of his hoplites in order to fight or not?
Or Miltiades at Marathon computed the stats of his Athenians and that of the Persians through his calculator, and saw that he could win so he fought the battle..!
Phal will tell you more.

I admit I laughed heavily when I read your and Phal comments. Just in time topic lol

[Phalangitis]

hehe this comment could not be more "in time".I am going to explain what I mean soon

Indeed nice timing!
Why did Agis in Mantineia calculated the stats of his hoplites in order to fight or not?
Or Miltiades at Marathon computed the stats of his Athenians and that of the Persians through his calculator, and saw that he could win so he fought the battle..!
Phal will tell you more.

OK so let me explain my vague answer here..
We started a small experimentation inside the team after an internal talk we had. Me and M@x are heavily supportive of this idea but we will see how our testers will find it. The idea is to almost completely remove the unit stats. This at first may seem a big step but lets talk about it. As M@x said in reality there are no unit stats above the soldiers so those generals did not use their calculators before the battle
How something might work ? First of all I want to say that in Hellenika stats were already a bit illusive Why ? because there are so many factors influencing the outcome without showing directly in stats. An example of this is light hoplites vs heavy in various terrains. Stat – wize the difference between them is immense BUT given the right circumstances (uneven terrain ) a light unit may dominate over a much heavier unit. Also it is is a bit gamish to know exactly the moral status of your troops for example being 32 or 64.. So how the player can know what is happening or his odds ?

1 ) Evaluate the type of troops - composition. Heavy , Medium , Light . It is logical what to expect when a heavy hoplite engages a light one..
2 ) Evaluate the ground (terrain) as explained above. If you are fighting in uneven terrain then probably you should depend more on lighter troops
3 ) Evaluate the current Omens before the battle . (see in manual the Gods & Omens tab) . There you may not be able to see exactly that your morale is 82 for example BUT in the omens text the effects are described . For example you will know that if you fight here you will get a significant moral boost or you will know that defense is boosted (from the inspiration of good omens for example)
4 ) Evaluate the fact that you are a defender or attacker. It is known that 75% of battles were won by the defender of the region . So when you are an invader you must know that you will face a motivated army .
5 ) Evaluate the obvious factors. For example if you face an army full of Spartan Moras you should know what to expect give or take

All the above are in fact all the info a general needs to decide if this battle is winnable or not and also it is a challenge for the player to show his skills. I am very much excited by this feature but have not tested it personally. When I do I can post my experiences..
Cheers.

[Linke]

As Sun Su said you will not win if you do not know your own army as well as the enemy, too know your own army you need to command in battle before, not look at "stats"

[Oskar_GD]

Phalangitis, thank you so much for your very detailed replay. You see how I worry and feel the mod mentally asking such questions... like a psychic ))

Idea of remove the unit stats is fantastic unbelievable, Its just brilliant, no more comments... Dont even explain to me what that means, I do. You should make it at least as submod.

At last when I asked this question I meant basic stats (without any buffs and nerfs) like melee attack, defence, health and morale. Im very interesting how much Agoge superior to unprofessional soldiers like Pentakosiomedimnoi hoplitai? Im afraid that youve made the Spartiatai not as strong as they should be
Dont show me stats, just dispel my fears...

[proman16]

I'll add my 2 cents to this stats discussion. The way I'd love to see the stat system work is for me to have the ability to see the base stats (without buffs and debuffs) of my troops so I can gauge their strengths and weaknesses. But at the same time keep the enemies stats a secret to me so when the battle starts I have to judge the strength of the enemy unit by it's appearance.

[Phalangitis]

Probably since many will want to see the stats we will have a submod BUT i sugegst before playing the mod with the usuall way (stats enabled) you should try at least the stat-less experience.

For your fears Spartan moras are the strongest units in the game and normally they win BUT they are not super-humans and with corrct strategy they loose and can loose big-time.

[Oskar_GD]

One more question: What kind of cavalry is available for Lacedaimon? Is it only AOR units? Spartans created cavalry and archer troops after Sfacteria and we have eilotai taxotai in preview.

[Phalangitis]

You are 100% right about the archers and that's why they are locked until certain technology is researched. Therefore they are available later in the game and not from the start. Light cavalry is available but very heavily caped. (some small elements of cavalry existed if i am not mistaken). So to free more caps for cavalry you must do reforms both social also political.

[Demokritos]

I like the idea of keeping the numerical stats of the units hidden for the player (commander of the army) very much. It should be enough - and more realistic - to hear or read a judgement or description of their capabilities and then experience first hand what that means on the battlefield. Definitely adds interest to the game. So hold on to that idea, Hellenika.

[M@x1mus]

I like the idea of keeping the numerical stats of the units hidden for the player (commander of the army) very much. It should be enough - and more realistic - to hear or read a judgement or description of their capabilities and then experience first hand what that means on the battlefield. Definitely adds interest to the game. So hold on to that idea, Hellenika.

I knew you would like it Demo!!!

[Oskar_GD]

Ooh yeah, If you play roughly without any reloads, you could easily lose about 2,000 hoplites in one battle - half of your starting manpower. You'll be findig a good place of battle, good terrain, climate conditions, attentively watching the movements of the enemy army reading the signs and omens like paranoiac... without stats, without saves, with only one chance and serious doubts... like the strategists of those great times.